MG Midget and Sprite Technical What’s happening in my garage BBS discussion at MG-Cars.net

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - What’s happening in my garage

The forum has been a bit quiet recently so I thought I would share my work on my 1500 The rear panel was rotten at the bottom where it meets the boot floor. The floor had several nasty patches over rust.

C MADGE

And more

C MADGE

So I have cut out all the rust in the floor, including the corners. The bottom of the beams and arches were repaired with new metal

C MADGE

And a new rear panel for a 1275 as i’ll be going bumperless Once the panel is in i’ll be filling in under the lights with some filler pieces I got with the car.

C MADGE

This is my first bit of welding on the body rather than the floor or places where appearance isn’t so important. So i’m taking my time, measuring twice, cut once etc. Any advice and words of wisdom is very welcome :)

C MADGE

Looking good Chris. Haven't ventured in the garage this year yet - gone rather cold! Well I went in briefly today but that was to repair our breadmaker nut dispenser!

Bill Bretherton

I thought it was going to be how you'd painted the walls or added a ring main. That's not a damp inducing carpet I see on the wall is it(?) The car's looking good though. Keep up the good work, but tidy up those trip hazards.

Nigel Atkins

Critique is also welcome too Nigel! :-D Space is a bit limited, I'm working at the end of the garage with about 4 feet between the car and garage door. With an angle grinder, Dremel, drill, inspection lamp + extension lead, welder there are cables everywhere at times. And then there are various tools on the floor that I need to hand. Keeping tidy is difficult. I'll tidy up before taking my next photos ;-P I know the carpet on the wall is a moisture trap, but its saved the drivers door from several dings since I have had the car so I'm loathed to remove it until I find a better solution. The garage is fortunately dry.

C MADGE

...midget's been sidelined by what Santa bought me...

David Cox

Ooh I like it! I'm a bit of a fan.

Greybeard

....me too, Mr G! I'll have to be careful what I wish for [or not?] when in ear-shot of elves...

David Cox

Chris How are you welding your panels in? Spot welding, plug welding, butt or joddled lap? I'd be interested to see some close-ups. I'm beginning to pluck up the courage to start on a bit of bodywork again and could do with a few tips. Instead of absorbent carpet on the wall, you could consider a sheet of closed cell foam - Cellotex or something similar. It would also provide a bit of insulation. Alternatively, you could invest in a Karrimat, as used by back-packers. Stick a piece on the wall and use off-cuts to kneel or sit on when working. I've got a 12" square cut from one, it slips nicely into a back-pack for sitting on and saving getting a wet bum when out and about or at events. Colin

C Mee

Chris, sorry for the thread hijack! David, do you need a manual for your engine? I found this in my dad's collection and it needs a good home.

John Payne

Inside:

John Payne

John..that would be super please contact me kosiceax913 at blueyonder dot co dot uk sorry Chris for unscheduled thread hijacking! It happens..but it what makes this forum such a good place to be cheers Dave

David Cox

David and John there is no problem hijacking my thread, the more the merrier. :) Colin to fit the replacement panels will be a mixture of butt and plug welds. The replacement panels butt up to the existing body, and i have drilled 6mm holes in the new floor section to plug weld to the flanges of the beams and arches. To repair the beams and arches I made up new sections. They are an L section shape at the bottom but the flanges dont follow a straight edge. As I dont have a shrinker or stretcher I made the repair section in two pieces and welded them together, finishing them off with 80 grit flap wheel on the angle grinder before but welding them into place. I'm not quite ready to weld the panels in yet, I need to make some pieces for the ends of the beams so that they butt up nicely to the rear panel. I'll put up some more photos when I get home. However I'm no expert, this is my first body work job. I have had my welder a year and had a fair bit of practice on the underside of the car. Some of my first welding jobs look terrible but are functional. At some point I'll redo them. The good thing will welding is you can always cut/grind it out and redo it if your not happy. The camping mat is an excellent idea, I'm sure I have one somewhere that isnt used..... Chris

C MADGE

Chris.. << Some of my first welding jobs look terrible but are functional. At some point I'll redo them. The good thing will welding is you can always cut/grind it out and redo it if your not happy. >> take heart...the first time I picked up a MIG was the first time I'd picked one up...no ideas what I was doing...all I managed to do was weld the clamps to my piece of practice scrap... you'll get there ! Dave

David Cox

Body work is only hold while I am waiting for the postman to deliver some bits. So this weekend I took the engine out. It was my first engine out and I was a bit apprehensive, but I followed the Haynes manual and it was very straight forward. I need to replace the clutch pivot ( at the moment its a bolt dropped through the bell housing) assess the condition of the clutch, recondition the gear box, and fix a head gasket leak.

C MADGE

The engine bay needs a clean and tidy up and probably some welding repairs.

C MADGE

Damn, I forgot to tidy up before taking the photos. I'm in for a bollocking from Nigel again :-D

C MADGE

Engine bay already looks clean to me, with a nice level of protective covering at the bottom. Of concern to me of course are the trip hazards, heavy weight at height with unprotected protrusions and for the car the full length wall carpeting. The dampers not (looking) a pair may be an advantage nowadays, no locating pin holes on the bonnet hinges may suggest the bonnet location need sorting or you're good at fettling it already. A garage and balmy winter weather you've got it made, it'll be back on the road in next to no time. :)

Nigel Atkins

That engine bay looks fantastic to me! I reckon a investment in a few LED strips would brighten your garage up no end. Bought some for work, £100 would see your garage as bright as day! Easy to wire up too. Cheers Matt

Tarquin

Looks good to me from here---- The only concern I have is that worklight It appears to be a mains connected job which is a tiddle naughty---There may be a transformer out of sight there somewhere but even so having the power cords on the floor while working around there is still naughty You only need a crack in the insulation and some water spilt, then it gets exciting I'd be investing in a nice rechargeable led worklight---and living to tell all how good it is working safely on you MG before it's too late---There is a monster like you've never imagined in there waiting for you, believe me he visits with a bang The unprotected engine crane isn't really an issue to me as you are working in close proximity to it and all you'll get is a bump, I usually wear a beanie when around such things and if you happen to knock your noddy on something it takes the klunk out of the impact nicely Honestly though I would have a think about that work light and power cord situation, If you are emotionaly attached to it maybe hang the thing on it's cord from above somehow willy

William Revit

Lighting is an issue in my garage and something I need to sort out. Matt - the led lights sound like a good idea ;) Willy - yes I do take your point. I cant say i'm a fan of rechargeable lights. Inevitably at they run out of charge at an inconvenient time. And lithium polymer batteries have their own risks when charging.

C MADGE

Theres 1/4 inch thick layer of gunge in places at the bottom of the engine bay. Underneath is some of the best bits of the body work on this car. Better than underseal ! I took the engine mounts off the chassis last night. LHS was slightly loose already and the RHS has a 1/8 inch shim behind it. As far as I can tell the shim isnt standard on the 1500? I assume its was put in there for clearance on the right hand side somewhere, although I don't recall anywhere being particularly tight. It does explain why the bell housing was so close to the tunnel on the RHS though.

C MADGE

Could the shim have any (vague) connection to the transmission tunnel tapping (can't remember cause or solution). A selection of rechargeable LEDs lights is handy, the light on them lasts many hours, one or two in use whilst one or two are recharging. Then you need a small bank of sockets for the bank of rechargers for the lights and various battery power tools that seem to be a must nowadays. With a proper power supply to the garage, for sockets, you could split it to add a light circuit. In placing the fixed lights you need to consider where they are best placed rather than where they're usually placed. You also need to consider where they probably won't (usually) get damaged. You want the light to spread but not cause shadows (like when the bonnet is on and you raise it, if the light is directly above the bonnet will block it out. Bricks aren't best at reflecting the available light, painting them white usually helps and perhaps lining part of the ceiling and painting that white too. The lining might also be insulated (allow for condensation there) to help with heat and sound in that area. The colour of the outside of the garage door can make a difference to solar gain it gets and perhaps condensation. There have been threads and posts on getting the garage done - and you thought it was just a matter of restoring a car.! :)

Nigel Atkins

The 1500 has a notch in the right hand chassis rail, not present on the earlier cars, to clear the larger bellhousing. The shim may have been added if clearance there was tight. Or maybe to raise the exhaust to give better ground clearance.

GuyW

Nigel - the transmission taping was due to worn gear box mounts. Yep - my garage needs an upgrade ! Guy - thanks. My 1500 is one of the very early ones so that would make sense. When the engine goes back in I'll try without the shim and see what the clearance is like. I think the restraint bracket at the gearbox mounting wasnt originally fitted to my car either. It was added a bit later in the production run. However my car has one. This was what was knocking against the transmission tunnel that Nigel refers to. I need to source "CHA488 rubber bush" that goes around the prongs of the restraint bracket. It doesnt look like they are available anymore so I'll need to conjure something else up. Anyone had to make these up ? What did you use? .

C MADGE

And another question, which is probably obvious.. The heat shield between the carbs and manifold wasnt originally fitted to my car. I'm guessing this is a worthwhile addition too ?

C MADGE

I'm and LED convert. I spent ages online checking all the batten lights I could find and even set up a spreadsheet to see which gave most lumens per pound. After looking at a few 'in the flesh' I ended up going for about the cheapest 4fts from Screwfix. I'm really happy with them as they give out far more light than any flourescent that I've had and they have covers making the IP65 compliant.

C Mee

I don't have a 1500 but the rubber bush looks like a bit of radiator hose (or even two bits, one inside the other) would do. Heatshield probably only matters if you zoom around and then park up with the exhaust hot, or spend time stuck in traffic on a very hot day without an electric fan. Symptoms would be that engine stalls while idling, or is hard to restart after being stopped. Once on the move there is enough air and fuel flow to render the shield irrelevant. p.s. when I did the original work on my MG in a small garage like yours my brother and I took the engine out and then tipped the car on its side. No call for H&S then!

AdrianR

I've always got the impression the heat shield is needed especially on 1500s as some users have reported problems from using even damaged ones let alone from when they're missing. Engine and engine bay heat seems a concern to many 1500 owners, many add an oil cooler although the factory never did or even offer it as an option.

Nigel Atkins

Although mine didnt have a heat shield it did have a gasket that was much bigger than the mating surfaces and protruded out to act as a heat shield I assume. Well I think that was the original intention but its anyones guess with this car.

C MADGE

Chris, could that be fragments of what's left of a badly damaged fibre type of heat shield. The shield would also have gaskets to both sides of it.

Nigel Atkins

I tried without a heat shield but got vapour locking and ran rough during hot weather made a stainless one and had no trouble since .

mark heyworth

Chris, I've a thought, your 1500 being an early one might have different carbs and shield to the later 1500s - and of course your carbs might not be original type to when it was new with latter or different carbs and other parts fitted. If there are tags on the carbs (and they've not been transferred on from another set) it might give you a clue, note all stamped numbers on any parts of the carbs to see if they've been mixed and matched (or mismatched). See the page marked '107 D50.03' here for heat shield CHA 501 which is no longer available - http://www.spridgetguru.com/AKM0036/AKM0036D.pdf

Nigel Atkins

but UKC8372 should be a direct replacement, as there's only one 1500 inlet manifold.

David Smith

Good point, sorry I didn't mean to imply a heat shield wasn't available just that originally it was different and might have been replaced by POs. UKC8372 appears to be the fibre type but there's also a solid stainless steel version, I wonder which would be the best insulator. My post was also to pile on the work for Chris as he sits waiting for parts, to check the carbs whilst they're out and to give an alternative source of info, the factory parts catalogue (with its own E&Os and 42 years out of date of course). Based on what's gone before on the car having the carbs apart and checking that they're fitted with appropriate parts now might save fiddling and head scathing later about later. Being an earlier 1500 it might have some unexpected small differences to later 1500s.

Nigel Atkins

Stainless carb shield ordered. I'm not sure which has the best insulation properties, stainless or the gasket material one (probably the later), but stainless is shiny so that swung it !

C MADGE

Since what you are mainly protecting is the SU float chambers and pipework to the carb from heat radiated off the exhaust manifold, a shiny reflective stainless one should do the job well enough. So long as you also use the thick phenolic insulating spacer between carb and inlet manifold to deal with the conducted heat.

GuyW

Guy the Moss Parts Catalog doesn't show an insulator spacer for the 1500 ? With a chunky spacer clearance would be an issue I think? The 1275 has one though: AHA586

C MADGE

Chris I sent you a message via your email that is shown on here dont know if it is the correct email or not. mark

mark heyworth

Thanks Mark, that is my correct email. However nothing has come through from you?

C MADGE

Chris, I hope you shopped around instead of putting all your eggs in a basket like Moss. As well as a lower shop price on the manufacturer's eBay offering it details - "If you look at the photos of this item you will see at the back of the heatshield it has an air cooling gap so that air will flow through between the rear heatshield and the front heatshield. This will keep the front heatshield cool and prevent fuel vapourisation." Mark's photo also shows this - I didn't know this until now. Looks like you also use 4 gaskets, UKC2992 - http://www.leacyclassics.com/ukc2992.html

Nigel Atkins

chris i have tried again could be in spam folder

mark heyworth

ETA: Perhaps Mark is emailing you details of his homemade one. (once again I was still typing whilst someone was posting).

Nigel Atkins

Chris, I didn't know the 1500s omitted the insulating spacer. It's a long time since I had mine. But Mark's photo appears to show a spacer of some sort there? Perhaps not as thick as those used in the 1275 cars though.

GuyW

Guy, I don't know what Mark has done on his but in the factory (Feb 1977) Parts Catalogue (with ue as it's a publication from England not USA, but language, and American influence, moves on) doesn't show or list any insulation blocks for the 1500. The link I put up relates to the relevant section of that publication (altho' a printed paper copy is better in my, er, book). Even if the publication was in error the part isn't listed by suppliers too. See the page marked '107 D50.03' here - http://www.spridgetguru.com/AKM0036/AKM0036D.pdf By the look of the stainless steel heatsheild below it appears the bottom section is double skinned to provide the insulating air gap. All new to me too (or I've forgotten).

Nigel Atkins

Yes Nigel, Thanks, I had got that. Chris pointed that out immediately after my first message mentioning the Phenolic spacers (as used on 1275 cars) Of course the 1500 inlet manifold is water cooled so even though it has some surface contact where it is bolted to the exhaust, the heat transfer due to conduction should at the least be controlled. Its the radiated heat from the adjacent CI exhaust manifold which is the main problem and a highly reflective SS heat shield should go a long way in reflecting that heat away from the critical areas.

GuyW

Sorry Guy, I just don't see a spacer in Mark's photo, as often happens you and I are on slightly different wavelengths, we're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time without realising it, we should be in Parliament. Mark's extra insulation and the second skin on the s/s heatshield cover the heat from the exhaust so all should be well in that respect.

Nigel Atkins

Chris, if you moved the car out you could get on with the garage improvements, it looks like the car would push outside easily.

Nigel Atkins

No you were right Nigel. What I initially thought was a spacer in Mark's photo, was in fact the flange of the manifold. I was led astray by my assumption there would be a spacer there as for the A series cars. But my comment to you was that Chris had already said that the parts catalogue doesn't show a spacer, which I had accepted. We agree that Marks "sandwich" heat shield will work. As will Chris's stainless steel one that he has ordered. Though using different physical attributes!

GuyW

You are a hard task master Nigel! The lighting will have to wait as I have loads to do on the Midget this winter so I can drive it in the summer. The car is on axle stands and the rear springs are not connected at the back as i’m welding in a replacement section of boot floor at the moment. It’s not going anywhere for a while. As for the heat shield I ordered a stainless one from Ashley Hinton, as it was cheaper than Moss.

C MADGE

Ashley Hinton could well be supplying Moss.

Dave O'Neill 2

Chris, I was joking about pushing the car out to start another project like the garage (but I think you knew that). I do think whilst you're thinking about the carbs though and wanting for parts I would suggest you check them over to see they're as they should be and not a mismatch, based on other stuff you've found on the car and do research on other components and parts as much as you can when they're off the car. I'm sure the heatsheild will be in good condition but do check it over at delivery as I found the quality of the water taps (plural) I've got recently are nowhere near as good as the one I got off him 8 years ago. Guy, we're all good then, see you at Westminster. Dave, that was my assumption too.

Nigel Atkins

Boot floor in this afternoon. Happy with the result, it all matches up nicely. The lighting is playing some weird tricks, it looks like the rear edge is buckled in a couple of places but it’s not.

C MADGE

For what it’s worth, the US-spec 1500 with the single Zenith carb does use a heat spacer between carb and manifold, as well as a similar spacer between the block and fuel pump. So it sure can’t hurt. Our cars also have a rather large steel and fiber heatshield between the exhaust manifold and carb, but then we also deal with the catalytic converter “downpipe,” with all the heat that introduces... especially when the Zenith goes really rich and the “cat” glows red hot. -:G:-

Gryf Ketcherside

Contrary to the above, I always thought the purpose of the coolant route through the manifold was to heat it not cool it - gaining the benefits of better winter/cold performance with a negligible affect on hot/summer performance.

S G Macfarlane

I think you are right. What I meant was water controlled, rather than water cooled. I think it was intended to give it a more constant running temperature so it heats up quickly but then stabilises and remains cooled relative to the hot exhaust manifold to which it is attached.

GuyW

This weekend in the garage I have been mainly sanding and filling. Almost there with the filler. Next is a filler primer coat.... Rear panel welded in, filler pieces under the lights added, holes covered, and everything blended in with filler.

C MADGE

Well done Chris, a quick blow over with a rattle can and you can reassemble and get the car out to sort the garage. :)

Nigel Atkins

I have had a break from body work this week, and repaired my starter motor and replaced the UJs in the prop shaft

C MADGE

And the starter motor, new bushes, brushes, Bendix spring, and a good clean

C MADGE

Chris Might just pay to check the alignment of your tailshaft Normally the uj's on a shaft line up with each other, meaning the crosses should be in the same plane In the pic ,yours appears to be a spline out of being in line When working on trucks there is an old saying,--Fixture to fixture--- which means both your end flanges should sit the same willy

William Revit

William, Well spotted and a good point. UJs don't provide homo kenetic drive unless the centre shaft yokes are aligned and the input and output are parallel, not likely in reality with a live axle but close enough that the speed variation is minimal. I have encountered on a Triumph before a roller bearing spline which had IIRC 4 rows of roller bearings but also plain splines which is likely what the OP has as that would account for the misalignment if the spline was assembled slightly out. Next question would be whether it would be marked for alignment as I would expect it to be balanced after fabrication and with the spline correctly assembled so incorrect assembly might result in vibration due to out of balance.

David Billington

Yes I had noticed the UJs are out of alignment, and did wonder why. Not sure what to do about it, and if it’s worth doing anything about it?

C MADGE

It came apart easier than I expected. Back in alignment :)

C MADGE

After a six-month wait I finally installed my new 4.55 diff today. I'm really looking forward to seeing how much difference it makes to the performance. As it was a half-shafts out job, I also took the opportunity to install longer wheel studs to give better thread coverage when the Sprite's wearing Minilites - as per the Wheel Studs for Minilites thread! Along the way, after a brief look at removing the axle nut with Stillsons, I managed to get hold of a 1 7/8" socket from the bay of E for the princely sum of £9. It meant removing and replacing the nuts was only a 10 second job but oh, so much easier and kinder to the nuts than Stillsons! Mind you, from the marks on the nuts, that's what a PO used! I am a notoriously untidy worker, usually strewing parts and tools across the garage floor. I'm feeling particularly pleased with the way I managed everything on this job as I invested in a collection of good-sized plastic cat litter trays. They're colour coded too! So one colour for parts removed, another for new parts waiting to go on plus a red one for a drip tray for the ride-on mower so that I spot it - I'm forever forgetting to remove the black ones and end up spraying plastic all over the place as the mower chews them up. At £1.50 each they're less than half the price of a 'proper' drip tray too!

C Mee

I like the cat litter tray idea My prop shaft has plain splines, so it was just a matter of undoing a cap and sliding the end off. A quick clean and some fresh grease and it’s back together

C MADGE

Colin Be careful that the cat doesn’t use the tray, or your parts may rust prematurely. 😼

Dave O'Neill 2

Dave No resident cats here, but I did have to make sure a robin that flew in didn't get shut in the garage and poop on everything! Colin

C Mee

One of the engine mounts is cracked

C MADGE

Cleaned it up and welded it up

C MADGE

And another pic

C MADGE

Time to sort out this mess. The box section mounting beams at the front of the car are badly rusted, with rough patches just slapped over the rust.

C MADGE

And this

C MADGE

And the patch

C MADGE

And this bodge too. The plan is to cut out the patches and rot and weld in new metal. As i’m Going bumperless i’ll Continue them and but them up to the front panel and cover over the ends to tidy the front end up.

C MADGE

Blimey they are bad as even I can see what's wrong. Keep up the good work and I might let you do another car project - but - you'll have to get that garage floor sorted first.

Nigel Atkins

I removed one of the patches tonight to reveal the rust underneath. The patch was made up from some thin steel, galvanised I think, and tack welded in a couple of places and held on with silicon sealant. I’m not sure that qualifies as an adequate repair for a structural part of the car!

C MADGE

Good grief. Looks like you got there in the nick of time.

Greybeard

Surely that's just good for ventilation and water drainage, I can't see what the fuss is about.

Nigel Atkins

The other side was the same if not worse, thin galavanised plate badly tacked on and silicon sealant used to cover the gaps. These are the main beams that the front rubber bumper would attach to. One of the worst bodges on this car, and there have been a few. On the bright side I'm getting quite good at welding now. :)

C MADGE

This winter I'm sorting out the A posts. Both have been badly repaired in the past. On passenger side the inner section isnt attached to the outer and is probably hiding some nasty bodges. I'll be tackling that later. For now I have made a start on the drivers side. The outer sill, whilst strong enough, was a mess around the front with several patches, so that has been replaced. The A post on this side has always bothered me ever since I got the car. The sides of the outer skin of the A post are not parallel leaving some terrible door gaps, and instead of nice smooth curve going down to the top of the sill its a set of ridges and bumps. There has been a bodged repair at the bottom. Before I started it looked like this

Chris Madge

And after I have replaced the outer sill, and cur away the lower section of the A post outer skin it looks like this. The bottom hinge mounting point has no floating plate or any sort of reinforcement. The hinge is just screwed into some blind nuts welded behind the panel. No wonder I could adjust the door to get it to mount properly.

Chris Madge

The A post cover (first photo) looks further out along its rear edge than its front edge unless the door is rising upwards towards the rear? Still, it will be much better when you've fitted new sections!

Bill Bretherton

Bill the top half of the A post is original and in the right place. The photo was taken after i had just put the door back on but hadnt done the fine tuning so its a little bit too far forward and almost touches at the top. The A post outer skin narrows at the bottom by about 1/4 inch which leaves the big gap at the bottom of the door. The A post outer also seems to be a fraction too far forward and pinches at the bottom of the wing.

Chris Madge

At least you may not have to replace all the inner skin of the A post, as I did many moons ago. It's continuous with the footwell side panel of course, and some bright spark (!) had buckled it with careless gas welding. Will you use a repair panel for the outer skin? It's actually easy to fabricate so no need to. BTW I have a spare floating plate if you need it. Les

L B Rose

Hi Les I'm intending to just replace the lower half of the outer skin and inner post. I have repair panels for both as I wanted to start with some known 'good' pieces as whats there is a mess of several patches, and my metal forming /shaping skills and tools are probably not good enough. Although you are right I could have probably made that outer skin myself. I'm disappointed with the fit of the repair sections I bought. The inner A post fit with the outer skin isnt great and will need some fettling. The bottom of the A post inner section appears to be wider than the width of the top of the outer sill. The outer sill is accurate and fits well with the wing and the B post so i think the problem lies with the bottom of the inner A post section.

Chris Madge

Chris, I'm not surprised at the poor fit of repair sections. I've been through that with the Frogeye rear end. When I came to do the front end I decided it was better to repair/ fabricate repair pieces for the original.

Bill Bretherton

Drivers side is done. New outer sill, and replaced lower section of the A post I need to sort out this mess on the passenger side now. This lot was covered with several sheets roughly tack welded on and copious amounts of filler.

Chris Madge

And I wish I had not taken a peep at the inside of the sill The inner sill at the front is mostly gone and several patches instead. So new inner and outer sills required.

Chris Madge

Ouch. I have a NOS near side sill going spare. email me if it’s of interest daveo138 at yahoo co uk

Dave O'Neill 2

At least the door hinge looks good!

G Lazarus

Thanks for the offer Dave, but Derbyshire is a bit too far for me. I'm hoping to pick up some new sills from Moss this week and make a start on Thursday. Like most of this car the old hinges were very worn with lots of play. So those are new hinges I found cheap on ebay.

Chris Madge

Inner and outer A posts as well I presume Chris. Looks like end of scuttle needs a bit of work too? Together with the sill, the usual suspects then! Good luck.

Bill Bretherton

Bill - yes inner post needs repair, and a new outer is required. At some point in the cars life water has got under the windscreen seal so there is a bit of damage to the scuttle too. Fortunately its not too bad, although its foing to be a little tricky to reproduce some repair sections.

Chris Madge

Sills and A post are easy enough with readily available repair panels and shouldn't give any problems. But that upper part of the A post is harder to deal with as it's not just the curved area up to the scuttle, it's the underside area behind the dash and top of the inner footwell side where the screen pillar bolts on. Although unseen, that will be the tricky bit. It's going to take a bit of carefully measurement, fabrication and alignment to get that area accurate enough to take the screen side pillars properly. Good luck with that!

GuyW

Guy - fortunately the structure that the windscreen pillar bolts to and through is rust free and still has the original paint. You can just make out this area in the photo above. The area that is rusted is the structure that supports the outer skin around the rectangular hole for the windscreen pillar. There is a 'dip' in the structure that supports the skin at the front of the hole for the pillar. Thus the outer skin has a small un-supported area at the front of the rectangular hole for the pillar - I assume its to allow the skin to flex a little to accommodate any slight discrepancy when the windscreen is mounted? I'm more concerned at replacing the inner sill as its a job i havent done before and the front is almost non existent with lots of patches. There is probably little or no original metal left and thus no reference points for locating the front of the inner sill.

Chris Madge

The inner sill went on just fine. I braced the door aperture with some angle iron, and supported the car under in several places.

Chris Madge

And the fit of the outer sill looks good, checked with the door and wing in situ. The passenger foot well floor is at least two layers so that needs doing next.

Chris Madge

You're a braver man than I, Chris. Well done so far.

Greybeard

Chris If you want to paint that and the inside of your outer, If you use cold galvo ,it's over 90% zinc and you can mig it with the zinc on

William Revit

Since you are at this stage, when you fit the small infill pieces at the sill ends, you may want to consider inverting them. As originally fitted they create a trap for mud and road debris. But worse, they create a second layer in close contact with the inside of the sill. This cannot be sealed or effectively painted between the surfaces, which draw in moisture into the narrow space by capillary action, and hold it there. The front and rear of the outer sill is often the first to rust through from the inside. On my cars I bend the wider flange of the sill fillets through 180 degrees and swap them, side to side. The modified piece when fitted created a closed box piece rather than the usual open dirt shelf. One can then inject Dinitrol into the box and seam seal all around. It's a much neater job than oeiginal, feels much stronger an I think will last far longer.

GuyW

William I have used Zinc based weld through primer on all the welded areas and for the inside of both sills. Hopefully that should protect them for now. Once the body work is done I will use the Bill Hamber cavity wax.

Chris Madge

A photo of the nearside sill with the modified front infill piece. Not very clear but this is where there is normally a narrow ledge full of road muck. Though I think the more problematic aspect is the double thickness of steel on the outer face of the sill. This same double thickness problem exists half way up the A post when the skin is fitted as it is then in close contact, though not actually attached to, part of the the hinge post. If possible, the inner post needs to be dressed back to give an air gap between the surfaces so that they can dry out.

GuyW

Add a little L shaped tang to the bottom of the B post forward face before you weld on the outer sill. Its easier done now when it can be folded up inside the B post to keep a nice flat finish there!

GuyW

Guy agreed, the original design is just a moisture trap.I have finished both outer sills and just have the ends left to do. (I wish I had thought of your tang idea !) I was thinking, rather than create a box at the ends, just make a flat triangular filler piece that effectively continues the end of the footwell straight across to the outer sill. Same at the rear. It’s not as strong as your solution but doesn’t create any cavity or moisture trap? The sill at that point doesn’t add strength to the car?

Chris Madge

Actually my idea still allows muck to collect at the ends of the sills so maybe boxing them in is a better idea....

Chris Madge

Chris, I thought of extending the bulkhead across, but then thought with my welding I would probably distort the outer sill face and introduce ripples in it. Plus it seemed a shame to waste the filler pieces I already had! Although they still needed a fair bit of attention with hammer and pliers to get them to match the sill ends. They weren't exactly a fit straight out of the box. Not that they actually came in a box.

GuyW

I’m still deciding how finish the ends of the sills. Whilst I I think I have started making a repair piece for the scuttle repai Here is what I need to fix

Chris Madge

Here is the repair piece, made from two sections welded together. It’s too complex a shape for me to make from a single siheet

Chris Madge

And with the aperture for the windscreen frame cut and filed out and placed over the existing metal. Once I get my Drexel back from a warranty replacement I will cut out the rusty section and weld in the patch.

Chris Madge

It's looking good Chris. I now see what you meant about the securing of the windscreen frame. I thought that inner plate had rusted away but I now see it is still fully intact.

GuyW

Repair patches welded in and painted with weld through primer I also gave the A post cavity some Rustoleum for protection I’ll fit the outer panel this weekend hopefully

Chris Madge

Was that the side with the broken quarterlight frame ? The frame sets the angle wnen replacing the windscreen. Looking very good R.

richard b

Yes it was Richard. After I fitted your frame the windscreen needed to go forward and tilt forward too. The other frame is also cracked. Both doors were badly fitting and the frames were being forced outward at the tops when the doors were closed hence the cracks over time. I’m on the look out for a good passenger 1/4 light frame.......

Chris Madge

What side did I let you have I thought it was the passenger ? or has that also cracked or is old age catching up with me again ? R.

richard b

Sorry my typo, i’m on the look out for a drivers side quarter light frame. Your passenger frame is solid and will be back on the car for the summer. Thanks :)

Chris Madge

As you know the drivers side spare I have has some cracks in it although its holding together OK, could be tig welded easily by a good welder. Probably best to find another but if you want it 'you know where I live' !!!

richard b

And the finished article Not sure why the photos get turned around by 90 degrees

Chris Madge

The gap to the top of the door looks worse than it actually is, but I might have to and some weld along the edge to close it up a little. The replacement panel wasnt wide enough at the top so I cut a slot, and eased it out and welding up the gap. I probably didn’t do enough.

Chris Madge

The gap at the top of the door on the wind up window models always looks odd to me. But that gap down the leading edge of the door looks really neat! Tidy work !

GuyW

From this angle the gaps looks too tight down the edge and along the bottom, and once surfaced and painted the door may not swing past the A post. May be worth pulling the door back 1mm and up say 2mm to see if it improves the overall condition.

f pollock

Yes, it's a very neat job Chris, but the gap down door front does look a tad tight in the picture. But maybe you've yet to adjust the door.

Bill Bretherton

Gap does look close, but at least it is parallel suggesting that the sill and A post are making the correct angle which is why I think it looks neat. But one cannot fully judge on the basis of that photo as it needs to be "read" in conjunction with a view of the rear B post gap. And crucially, the relative heights of the top of the B post and the door plus the alignment of the swage line need to be correct. I cannot determine the gap along the door bottom from the photo, but the diverging splay at the top of the door looks to start too low, suggesting that Fergus is right about the gap along the bottom being tight, and the door will need raising a bit. I still think it's tidy work though!

GuyW

Excellent craftsmanship.

tburston2

The door is off right now so I can’t show pics of the rest of the gaps. But the gap to B post is the same as the A post and both gaps are parallel. The door opened freely and didn’t foul. I *think* it should be ok with paint - but point noted, I’ll watch that. The door is as high as it will go, any higher it would foul the original skin by the windscreen. The new metal is in the same place so again any higher it would foul. The swage line is ‘about right’ although ideally the door could do with lifting a touch more at the b post end. The bottom door gap is too small to sill at A post end and at B post is about right. My outer sill might be slightly out, or the door which has been repaired in the past is out. Either way I’ll trim/weld the bottom of the door to get it parallel. The other door which came off another car (no repairs) has similar A and B post gaps and is at same height but the bottom gap is a fair bit bigger! Still it’s better than what I had - the divers door overlapped the B post and sill and stuck out when closed previously. I have moved on the the passenger foot well for now and removed two layers of patches, as you do. Once I get a new floor in I’ll finish off the doors. Then I need to repair the bonnet, strip the car, prep and paint. Hopefully in time for the spring.

Chris Madge

Well you are making nice progress, Chris. What is the condition of the front chassis rail extensions like? They often seem to be the other item that rusts away from the inside at much the same rate as the sills and A posts that you have had to attend to on this car!

GuyW

Hi Chris, Looks like you are making good progress. As I have recently finished my A post I also found that my gap was at little on the small side. It turned out that the flange on the outer a-post skin wasn't folded completely tight against the inner repair panel. I found that with small taps with a hammer on the edge I was able to gain around 1mm to 1.5mm so improved the gap and straighten the lines. In the photo this was the gap before doing this, which looks quite similar to yours. There's certainly plenty of room for the door to open without rubbing the A-post. Also I spent a lot of time fettling the door adjustments to make the gaps look half decent. I also found out that the wing gap can be adjusted by bending the area around the screw hole. Good luck! https://1965mgmidgetrestoration.blogspot.com/2019/10/lhs-post-repair.html

James Paul

Guy the chassis rails are ok fortunately. They had drain holes, well sort of slots with a scoop so that’s helped preserve them. Thanks everyone for the advice and pictures of door gaps. I’ll revisit them before I prepare for paint. At the moment the passenger foot well is my focus. It was a mass of patches over rust and other patches. Ive cut out all the patches and rusty remains. All of the footwell floor, half of the end section and all of the toe board are gone. The plan is to but weld new metal to what’s left of the end panel, make a toe board, and put in a new floor to hopefully end up with something a bit tidier. The pic is taken from the brake calliper. There is still some tidying up and a bit more metal to remove before welding.

Chris Madge

Hi Chris, You are doing a great job on the Midget, you may know I am embarking on a similar project, ground up restoration. Just in the middle of fabricating a rotisserie to make life a bit easier. Currently offshore at the moment so will not be doing anything until the new year. This forum is a great source of information with the similar threads. I have bought another rolling chassis for the 1500cc one I have (LHD), that will need similar work done to what you are doing now. This is earmarked for a K-Series conversion. But first the 1275 MkIII is to be done. Do you know what the ideal gap is for the A Pillar and door or is it a case of just eyeing it up. So will follow the progress on your thread as well. Keep up the great work. Dave

Yojic

Hi Dave, thanks, yes I have been following your thread with interest too. My car is such a mess of bad previous repairs (including the doors) that things like doors gaps are probably going to be bespoke to make them look reasonable. I have found that the further towards the outside of the A post the hinges are the closer the A pillar gap can be. When you think about it, it makes sense. As it happens my doors need the hinges at their furthest point outward for every thing to line up so I can get away with quite a narrow gap at the A post. In the previous photo you can see the outer foot well panel (RHS of photo) has a wavy jagged edge at the bottom where it meets the inner sill. The original inner sill was so badly rusted, a previous repair was to simply weld a patch on the inside of what was left of the outer foot well panel all the way down and with a large radius bend it around to over lap the floor creating a double skinned floor and a substitute front sill - sort of :-/ To be fair it was strong if ugly. Anyway to preserve the structural integrity of the car as much as possible whilst replacing the inner sill I left that patch in place and plug welded it to the top of the inner and outer sills. Once the sills were welded in I then cut the remains of that outer panel and with it the floor, toe board and most of the end panel which were a mass of patches. 3 deep in places. I'll tidy up the edge of that outer panel by seam welding it to the inner sill and grind it back to something hopefully neat.

Chris Madge

Impressive... Good luck :) (and continue to post the updates ;) )

CH Hamon

Thanks Cedric, it’s not impressive really though. Welding just takes practice. The floor, end panel, and toe board are done. Welding in the confines of a Midget footwell is uncomfortable! It’s not the tidiest of repairs but once painted it will look fine, and even better under carpet :)

Chris Madge

There’s still a bit more welding to finish the sill and door gaps, and repair the bonnet before I can move on to paint prep However I have run out of welding gas and my local stockist has stopped selling it. So whilst I source some more I have started the strip down. Dashboard, instruments, wipers, windscreen vents etc out

Chris Madge

Hi Chris, I get my gas from Mill Autoquip in Weston, but they have one in Bristol https://millauto.wordpress.com/bristol. Looking good on the repairs. My back is still in pain from welding the footwell 6 months ago! Good Luck James

James Paul

Chris, where is your gas from? Mine is from SGS gas based in Weston-S-Mare who do rent free bottles. There is a network of distributors - I used APD (Auto parts and diagnostics), Yate branch.

Bill Bretherton

I have found a place near where I work that does Hobby Weld bottles. Rent free, 20 Litre, 300bar and comes with their own regulator, should keep me going for a while. The deposit is a hefty £195 but you get that back once you return the bottle.

Chris Madge

Hi Chris, That's the gas I use from Hobby Weld. Need to source some Argon, Oxygen and Acetylene. From my understanding the later is hard to get especially if you are not a business. Dave

Yojic

I never had an issue with acetylene since starting to use it in 1983 from BOC as a private individual, stopped about 15 years ago as I wasn't using it enough to justify it. I've heard all sorts of things over the years about needing a license but that wasn't the case. Insurance may be an issue as I know acetylene is a specific exclusion on a friends business policy, they can have oxygen indoors and smaller propane bottles but 47kg propane have to be taken outdoors at the end of the day. Depending on what you're doing consider an oxygen concentrator, that's what I use these days. Ex medical ones are around £200 so cost about a years BOC rental and fill cost. I use it for oxy propane brazing and heating and it does that fine.

David Billington

We're fairly lucky here BOC have outdated themselves by their bottle rental system Speedgas have a setup where you buy your first bottle outright and then when it's empty you just go get an exchange refilled bottle---it can be ten years later if you want -no rental as you own the bottle Usual price for a D size bottle of argon mix is probably close to $200 outright full A refill is $99 exchange delivered to your door

William Revit

I picked up a bonnet today for £30 and it’s almost rust free. Bargain. The chap had a container full of spridget parts in Newport South Wales, just 30 mins away.

Chris Madge

Good find, Chris. Good bonnets are not easy to find these days! For gas bottles, it is worth asking around locally. I changed from BOC because of the high rental cost, to SWG. I was lucky as the local supplier had only recently taken on the SWG franchise and was keen to sign up new customers. So my first 20l bottle of CO2/Argon mix was not just rent free, he also waived the deposit.

GuyW

I'm going back to get a rust frr door for £30 too. I was umming and arring and wished I had got it when i fetched the bonnet. But the door needs stripping first. Hes got a few other bits and pieces, chrome bumpers, 1098 engine and box, more doors. A Moggie door too. If anyone wants anything I get put you in touch.

Chris Madge

The bonnet and door were both good, just needing a couple of small holes repaired in the typical places - bottom edge of the door and the leading edge of the bonnet. Unfortunately the other (drivers) door needed a bit more repair on the bottom which has been done but unfortunately has warped the outer skin :( Whilst I work out what to do about the warped door, I have been rubbing down the body work. I still have to sort out the bonnet gaps, but I first need a new locking pin and a pair of side buffers.

Chris Madge

And the back of the car. The beading on the rear passenger side is a little rust damaged so I’ll need to repair that too.

Chris Madge

The warped door problem is difficult. I foolishly acquired my MIG welding skills by starting on the doors, and got one of them too hot. I then taught myself panel shrinking. By using a blowlamp, hammer and dolly I got the skin flat enough to disguise with filler. But that was a Frogeye door, yours will have poorer access for the dolly. However if the door is simply twisted you can correct that once it is bolted to the pillar. Les

L B Rose

Les, same here. I welded a new lower repair panel (bottom of door frame) earlier on in the Frogeye restoration when I hadn't done very much MIG welding. Ended up with a ripple in the outer door panel. Like you, I've tried shrinking and improved it a little but finished up using filler. I think the door panels are very vulnerable to warping, even if being careful, as they're flat without reinforcement ribs so it may have been inevitable Chris. People say to take your time and do one short weld at a time but the welds, altogether on cooling, are still shrinking the edge you're welding so will tend to ripple the panel elsewhere.

Bill Bretherton

The door skins are crimped not welded to the inner frame other than at the top edge. And braise, not weld is used at the corners. I wonder if this was to reduce the chance of distortion of the large unsupported panel (less heat). It also allows for some "gentle adjustment" to a twisted door after it is hung. I wonder if originally the braise was actually added after pushing the door into shape.

GuyW

Guy, indeed the door skins are crimped. I welded the bottom repair panel to the inside of the door frame having first slid it into the bottom fold of the outer skin. I think the inside edge of the repair panel must have shrunk from welding but not the outer edge, resulting in a longitudinal curving effect on the panel. This would then tend to impose a curve on the lower door skin I think - hard to correct once it's there unless I completely re-did the repair perhaps? Well, that's my theory anyway.....

Bill Bretherton

I have tried various ways to get the warp out but access to the inside of the door is very limited. I have got it to the point that I could get it flat with up to 2 or maybe 3 mm of filler at the deepest part, (the filler would have to cover most of the door) but i’m not really happy with that. I think I have sourced another good condition door from the chap that sold me the bonnet and other door, so I will probably use that. Talking of doors here’s the gaps around the ‘good’ door. The B pillar gap is slightly wider at the top than bottom but the difference is small. The gaps aren’t easy to see on that picture with all the different colours, once it’s in primer I’ll take another photo.

Chris Madge

Chris, on the evidence of the photo I'd be pretty happy with that B post gap. It looks better than mine which is factory original,as far as I know.

Greybeard

Thanks Greybeard. I think the gap will look ok, certainly good enough for a Midget. Not much to post pictures about at the moment. I am mostly sanding and starting to paint the boot lid, doors, bonnet, and wings in primer bit by bit. I'm half way through a bead repair on the nearside rear wing, I'll post some pictures of that later.

Chris Madge

I'd like see how you are getting on with that beading. Got mine to do!

James Paul

Chris, I'd also like to see how you make and fit the beading, presumably in situ? I made and fitted all four for the Frogeye but this was off the car as the wings were separated from the rear deck and bonnet. The beading is easy enough to bend but I wonder how you can properly clean up the joint, then weld in new beading in situ. unless you fill the joint and cut the beading mostly flat and solder in position maybe, letting it into the joint here and there.

Bill Bretherton

My beading wasn’t too bad and could have probably been repaired with filler if it wasn’t for evidence of rust underneath it. It was a two inch section towards the front on nearside. A bit of googling and I decided to use this method: https://www.mgexp.com/article/mgb-rear-fender-beads.html

Chris Madge

I was reluctant to pay £27 on some beading section for just a two inch repair so I made my own T piece of beading. The top is some scrap 1mm sheet folded over and flattened with the vertical piece welded on.

Chris Madge

The damaged bead was ground off with a grinding disc. Wire wheel to remove the rust, and then the Dremel with a miniature wire brush to get rid of the rust in the pitting. Applied some rust converter, and cleaned it off with the wire wheel. I then used a 1mm cutting disc to remove the old vertical piece of the beading deep enough to take my repair section.

Chris Madge

The previous picture shows the top ground away and before I cut out the vertical slot with the 1mm disc. The repair section was cut to fit. The bare metal painted with epoxy primer before the repair section was cut to fit and glued into place with epoxy. A blob of weld secured the ends to the existing bead. A small amount of filler and it’s done.

Chris Madge

Good work Chris. I'm never sure about using adhesive for metal but it must be ok as some modern car panels are bonded on.

Bill Bretherton

Thanks Bill. The bead is structural, so I think epoxy is plenty strong enough :)

Chris Madge

Auto correct is the bane of my life at times Beading isn’t structural

Chris Madge

I did the same sort of rear wing beading repair on my car in 1995. It lasted very well and has only recently begun to deteriorate again with rusting of the wing panel to one side of the bead. When I did mine though, after clearing the flanged joint out as best I could from the top, I then filled it with lead. I then re-heated this and pressed the trucated wing beading into the molten lead with a wooden stick, working along the bead in short sections. I then wiped a finger of body filler down either side of the bead to help seal it before painting. I replaced the full length of both of the rear wing beads. 20+ years as a repair isn't bad, especially as the car has been a daily driver in all weathers for much of that time.

GuyW

20 years plus is impressive Guy. Maybe I should familiarise myself with lead work? I wonder how epoxy will stand up and well I cleaned up the rust....

Chris Madge

Good work Chris, and a good pointer if I have that problem. Will be tackling the rear end of mine the bottom edge of the rear valance this week. I will refer to your earlier post as you have done the rear valance and boot. 👍🏻 Dave

Yojic

It's been a while since I have posted anything here, because I have mainly been doing body work - sanding, filling, and painting in primer. Nothing particularly interesting to post up pictures of. Coming up with a colour has been one of the hardest decisions. I originally wanted Inca Yellow but the females in my family said no. Iris Blue was suggested but I didnt think it suited a 70s car, its more of a 60s colour for MGs. So in the end we went for a brighter blue - 'Sky Blue'. Its not an MG colour as far as I know, but i think it suits a 70s Midget that isnt original anyway. I'm painting the outside of the car in cellulose, and the inside in Rustoleum. Cellulose isnt compatible with Rustoleum, so why do this? I chose this combination for a couple of reasons: Rustoleum is available in Sky Blue (RAL 5015). This was a fortunate accident rather than a reason for choosing the colour. On areas such as footwells , the engine bay, and the boot it gives a reasonably good finish when applied by brush. It seals in rust and stops it progressing further. On the inside of the car there were lots of seams showing small traces of rust, and areas of surface rust too. I cleaned up the rust with wire brushes using an angle grinder and a Dremel as best I could and replaced with new metal where practical. But its impossible to get rid of it completely, so hopefully this paint will keep it at bay. Rustoleum can also be painted now, which means I can still make progress whilst waiting for better weather to spray cellulose. The down side is that I will need to do a fair bit of masking up when I paint in cellulose to prevent the cellulose reacting with the other paint. The paint has gone on fairly well with just a couple of runs that I need to address. It takes a while to harden, but once hard it sands down quite well and can be painted over. I still need to do the floors and boot.

Chris Madge

the conversion to a central driving position is interesting...

S G Macfarlane

Just heard Mr Blue Sky by ELO. That colour is a definite statement, no dithering, very 70s too IIRC. Lots of possibilities and combinations of colours to consider to add to it, grey wheels perhaps, what about off-centre body stripe or stripes going over bonnet and boot - course there would have been flames from the wheel arches in the 70s. :) Well done Chris.

Nigel Atkins

The central driving position is for better weight distribution. I'm likely to be self isolating soon which means my calorific intake will increase substantially and with it my weight. Hopefully the move to the centre of the car should alleviate this. I'm still working out what to do with the gear stick...........

Chris Madge

I hope every one is keeping safe, healthy, and busy? I seemed to have lived in my garage over the last week and made some progress on 'Noddy' my 1975 Midget. Here's the results of my first cellulose spray job. A bit of a learning cure but overall I'm happy with it. It needs polishing and there are a couple of runs on the wings to set sand.

Chris Madge

and some more pics

Chris Madge

That looks really good Chris! You can be justly proud of that.😃 What a great stride forwards it is too once the paint is on. Did you do it outside? I like the idea of a body colour matched dash too. Not original, but very "period"!

GuyW

looks excellent.Well done

Bob Beaumont

Magic-!

William Revit

The colour (inside garage) looks spot on for a 70s car, it looks great, well done. I might have some welding and spray work for you. :) Personally I don't think circular front indicator lights look correct they're more 50s and 60s, I'd go for fitting the rectangular lights somehow. I think the colour coded dash though will look great, perhaps you could add blue dial lights too but be careful not to overdo the blue. MG went mad with MG logos over the Metros putting them everywhere, I don't even like the MG badge on the dash (which I think they dropped with later 1500 dashes. I'd recommend you wrapping the telescopic bonnet stay to prevent it scratching the paintwork whilst you fit it, don't know about the boot one. Well done.

Nigel Atkins

Looks great Chris. Well done! Good weather for it last week. You did well to get round the car in the garage. What compressor did you get in the end?

Bill Bretherton

Thanks for the comments. Guy I sprayed it in the garage a few panels at a time, and finally the car, over 4 days. The idea was to paint panels laid flat to get a decent coat of paint on without runs which left the best finish I found. It meant clearing out half of the garage and giving it a good clean and hoover before each painting session. I used a large pedestal fan to blow air out at one end to get rid of the fumes. It worked, sort of. The paint didn’t suffer with much debris/flies/dust etc. I also used a good quality respirator designed for paint fumes. I can’t claim painting the dash body colour was my idea. I have seen a couple of restored Midgets done like this and liked it. My interior is plain black, so with the tops of the footwell and the dash it should break up the black a little. Nigel rectangular indicators at the front are part of the Midget look, my behive ones depart from that I know. But aesthetically I think the rectangular lights just look wrong with the round headlights on the Midget. I prefer my ‘look’. It’s certainly not a purists car. Bill theres a clue in one of the pictures to the size and brand of compressor I purchased. 100litre 14.6 cfm made by SGS. I shopped around for a second hand one but they all seemed to fetch high prices making buying a new one with a guarantee attractive. It worked fine for spraying and easily kept up. It’s a bit noisy, but it’s only on for a short while every now and again. I’ll use it to power some air tools in the future.

Chris Madge

Chris, you're right, it's your car and whatever looks best to you is best, I don't think they suit modern Landies either but that's me. The only thing with the painted dash is it might show up worn switches and dials but you can clean and restore the appearance of them too (more work). Until you have everything together it's difficult to know what blends in with what plus sometimes you get used to things so I'd not make too many changes until you've lived with the car a while (and driving becomes more important than cosmetics).

Nigel Atkins

Chris, how about these, radiused and shaped surround and lens, the two bands of amber would look good against the blue. C'mon, you know you want more metal bending, welding and painting. You could just snip off the sidelight wire or put in one (or two) lower wattage bulbs and double wire them as twin-bulbs indicators/hazards (simply using a double bullet connector would do it) giving full width illumination of indicator lens that would perhaps add to the safety for static turn off of roads especially when headlights are on. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283116922657

Nigel Atkins

As fitted to earlier USA cars. Doesn't look good against red but would against your blue.

Nigel Atkins

Looks nice :) Always a pleasure to read and see your pictures :)

CH Hamon

Nigel The thought of cutting into freshly painted wings has made me feel quite queasy. No, just no! Cedric - thanks :)

Chris Madge

Look I'll do it for ya, you've already got the round hole, I've a broken hacksaw blade I can tape a handle on to and cut a series of slits, then bend and form the metal with two lumps hammers used as bases and hammers, a little touch-up paint and I'm there, a blind man would be glad to see it, if not feel it. If I see your car parked up I'll do it whilst you have a cup of tea, or better still a pint and bringing one out for me. I'll practice on cardboard now, won't need such big hammers tho'.

Nigel Atkins

Nigel were you one of my cars previous owners? It sounds like you did some of the repairs I had to sort out!

Chris Madge

They lasted, wot yer moaning about, yer too fussy.

Nigel Atkins

Wet sanding and polishing mostly. The panels I sprayed off the car laid flat down came up quite well and just need a light wet sand with P2000 before polishing. The rest of the car I wet sanded with P1200 and then P2000. I'm polishing with Farecla G3 paste and an air powered 3 inch polisher. Here is the door I did a few days ago. Just another door, the front wings and bonnet left to do.

Chris Madge

Chris How did you paint the edges and the "shuts"? I wondered if it's best to do them first but with a rattle can (I have one filled with same celly colour). Note I'm nowhere near ready to do this yet but thinking ahead.

Bill Bretherton

Hi Bill For edges and shuts, I painted them at the same time I painted the car, (or panel in question). For each coat, I sprayed the shuts, door edges, etc first and then sprayed the panel. I repeated the sequence for each of the four coats.

Chris Madge

First test drive the other night since the rebuild. Nothing fell off and I made it home alive. Phew. Annoyingly I have an oil leak at the front. Its either the timing cover or hopefully the sealing block. Still the passenger seat diaphragm to replace and door cards to fit as well. And the speedo cable has had it, so I need to replace that too.

Chris Madge

Looks great Chris. A bit different to when I saw it!

Bill Bretherton

i had front oil leak on my 1500 ,fitted a steel sealing block which stopped most of it but still had a small leak from timing cover seal cured that wiht an easisleeve.

mark heyworth

Wow that looks great. I think I'd stick the reflective number plate on the bonnet. I can't think why but for some reason I'm reminded of a Dalek. :)

Nigel Atkins

Oh that came out wrong. I meant I'd put a stick on reflective number plate on the bonnet, as they did on E-Types and others, I've had two cars with them and no problems.

Nigel Atkins

Good luck in stopping the 1500 gushing oil. I haven't figured out how to yet, if you do, tell me how! Great thread this. Well done for keeping it going and updated for so long. Kudos to you. And what a superb finished product. Fab looking thing in that colour. Cheers, Malc.

Malcolm Le Chevalier

What will you do now ? Should I bring you mine ? :p Great job... Great thread ! :)

CH Hamon

Thank you for the nice comments. I have tightened the bolts 1/8 turn around the front sealing block and that seems to have 'stopped' the oil leak. I'm sure it hasnt really but for now its acceptable. The timing cover isnt leaking as far as i can see. I'll investigate steel seal block options. Whats next? Well these projects never really finish. Having got the paint to something acceptable, it shows up other parts of the car. I need to replace the drivers side quarter-light frame at some point as its cracked and looking tatty. There are a few other things to address, and future upgrades to consider. There is a 19 year old lad in our MASC Bristol group with a 69 Midget that is going to need some welding repairs (floors, sills, boot floor). I'll be helping/doing that next winter. At some point I would like to restore another car, what I'm not sure. Something with 4 seats and a roof. Or maybe a 1275 Midget, or maybe both, or... I have really enjoyed working on the Midget, I'll definitely be keeping busy in the garage.

Chris Madge

If only you lived nearer I could find you a 1275 that needs restoration, if there's not enough engine oil leaks just wait they'll arrive, and a gearbox to see how not to do it. You're more of a 1275 sort.

Nigel Atkins

Theres still a few things to sort including a misfire when cold and under hard acceleration/load. Once warmed up the car runs well, with just a very minor hesitation at WOT but just the last 10% of accelerator travel. I have checked HT and LT circuits, plugs, and that everything is air, water, and fuel tight. All seems good. The tappets are quite noisy so I suspect the rocker assembly is worn, and I want to check the fuel pump. It’s the mechanical one and looks like it hasn’t been touched since 1975. Meanwhile a replacement steel front sealing block arrived today, so this afternoons job was to swap out the old one with a knackered thread, for new and hopefully get rid of an oil leak. I’m not convinced by wooden blocks to seal the sides, they don’t cover the full width of the ends so it’s still has to rely on sealant to seal.

Chris Madge

Whilst the sump is off I checked the crankshaft end float. I did this job two years ago and got it within recommended tolerance, measuring today it’s 0.25mm so it needs redoing ! When driving I make sure the clutch isn’t disengaged any longer than absolutely necessary. The engine has a reputation of eating thrust washers. Pictures were taken with dial gauge indicator against the crankshaft pulley

Chris Madge

"misfire when cold and under hard acceleration/load. . . . very minor hesitation at WOT but just the last 10% of accelerator travel." With both does pulling choke cable for fast idle then choke make any difference to either, so four setting, two to each issue. Over and out time to look for ISS.

Nigel Atkins

ISS launched cancelled. I need to try the choke out suggestion, I’ll get back to you.......

Chris Madge

I swapped out the rear thrust washer for the next size up, and the end float is back into tolerance at 4/1000 Whilst the rear main cap was off i inspected it for wear. I’m not entirely sure what I’m looking for to be honest, but there is no perceptible scoring and plenty of material left so I think it’s fine? I went out for a 1/2 hour in the car yesterday evening to make sure everything was ok. No more oil puddle on the front cross member :) Next it’s the rocker assembly....

Chris Madge

I love this thread. Nice work Chris. A few thoughts: 1. Where did you get that sealing block? It looks great. 2. Thats a lot of wear on the thrusts in such a short space of time. How did the old ones look? 3. Main bearing looks fine. No worries there. It is the middle main and generally no. 3 big end that takes the most abuse though (for future reference). Cheers, Malc.

Malcolm Le Chevalier

Hi Malc, thanks for the feedback :) I have replaced the thrust washers twice on this engine. The first pic shows the original thrust washers which are completely silver and don’t appear to have any wear surface. The lower one was the rear and it’s so worn that the groove for the oil on one side has completely gone. The second picture shows the washers I removed yesterday. Again the lower one is the rear and it has some slight signs of wear but not much. The car did around 5000 miles on them. And as I said in a previous post I’m careful not to have the clutch pedal depressed for any longer than necessary. The only difference in my method of checking was to use a bigger pry bar to move the crankshaft. I think the first time I used an old screwdriver and the first time I probably didn’t move the crank shaft enough to measure all of the end float. Live and learn! The sealing block I used is here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/triumph-spitfire-mk1-1500-front-engine-sealing-block-in-billet-steel-511134/283773235209?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 It’s well made and being steel you can tighten it up over the torque figures in the Haynes manual. You get a much better chance of an oil tight seal

Chris Madge

when i changed my sealing block i could not believe how bent the old one was, it cured one leak but still had a drip from front crank seal which a speedi sleeve cured. got my steel sealing block from triumph club.

mark heyworth

Chris This might be a completely useless piece of info but- early Mazda MX5s have a little issue with their thrust bearings, but it's been semi tracked down to the fact that on the US spec cars, some have a clutch switch to make it so the clutch pedal has to be depressed to make the starter motor go The cars with these switches eat their thrusts mostly because the lube oil isn't there at startup The fix for them is to bridge the clutch switch to enable starting without using the clutch Just wondering if you are in the habit of pushing the clutch in at startup, and if so it might be advisable to change to not doing that-------

William Revit

William - yes I have to make a conscious decision not to dip the clutch when starting the Midget. Nigel and anyone else who is interested - I have just had a test drive on the motorway to investigate this hesitation at around 3000 to 3500. The car bogs down, but if I pull out the choke the engine picks up and, well, flies ! So, I have gone from the standard manifold, and some nasty cheap pancake filters to a Maniflow exhaust and manifold, with K&N air filters. I don’t know what needles I have in the SU carb but I expect they are the standard ones. Colour of plugs is about right, but that’s after a couple of mins at a lower throttle setting than on the motorway at 3500. So I’m thinking this indicates I need a change of needles to something richer at the top end? As for the occasional misfire when cold I have had that with the choke on previously.

Chris Madge

AAM needles maybe http://www.mg-cars.info/mg-midget-sprite-technical-bbs/kn-air-filters-now-gutless-2015040713193410106.htm

Chris Madge

And the rocker assembly..... Took it off the head and had a good look. To me it looks like it’s worn out and needs a replacement. The rockers have 0.3 to 0.4 mm side to side movement at theirs tips, and I can feel some play in the pedestals. But more telling is the wear on the tips of the rockers, some of them have significant grooves that I can feel with my fingers.

Chris Madge

Chris Madge - or you have a air leak at the inlet manifold! Rob

MG Moneypit

Chris, I know that your rockers are rattly, but have you tightened them down too much to try and quieten them down? Too little clearance will cause the engine to bog down at higher revs as well.

GuyW

Rob - there are no visible signs of an air leak around the manifolds. Exhaust manifold is a new Maniflow, inlet is the original that has been reconditioned. All new gaskets were used. I have checked the clamping nuts and nipped them up.i would expect an air leak to cause problems through out the throttle range? The idle is reliable and consistent for example. Guy - I set the tappet clearance as per the Haynes manual, 0.25mm cold. If anything with those grooves the clearance could have been on the big size. The photo shows the end of the feeler gauge and the worn groove in the rocker. It’s thin enough to set the gap correctly if I insert the feeler from the front were there isn’t a lip. Well that’s my theory, how in works in practice.... The rockers and pedestals are going to be wobbling around the shaft which probably makes setting the clearance a bit academic though. Rocker assembly is back on, and clearances set. I’ll test drive tomorrow and see.

Chris Madge

Chris It's a well known fact that you will need richer needles with K&N filters AAA is the usual go to needle BUT because you have a maniflow and I suspect a free flowing exhaust compared to original, the next step to AAM would be the needle to go for, It's almost the same as AAA but just a tiddle richer right up the top end--a lot safer choice than being on the lean side It won't effect your normal economy as you're not using that part of the needle with normal driving anyway but if driving hard you have the knowledge it's not going to lean out and melt stuff AAM

William Revit

Thanks for confirming William. The head was also skimmed to cure an oil leak at the head gasket. So the compression ratio will have increased a touch. Would this be significant to affect the mixture ratio ? The machine shop couldn’t have taken much off as the new Payen gasket I used with the raised lip that located into the recess around the cylinders still fitted ok.

Chris Madge

I'd forgot you hadn't yet changed your needles, all the more reason to keep the 123 on base setting and to run all at steady settings and not go for more hp type tuning, get the foundations solid first. When you get the right needles and settings for those you may well find 123 base setting with adjustment to timing and mixture as required will be enough to cover higher performance overall. All subject of course to reasonably consistent settings being achieved elsewhere. For the cold misfire, perhaps if you could get a recording of it happening and details of when it happens revs, choke, from warm up, flicker or not on rev counter, ect. Willy will remember better than me, I think part of a recent B misfire was electrical connections (and mixture). I expected you done the spray to check for manifold leaks, and whilst some problems may be within the expected range of causes and symptoms there can be combination of circumstances that disguise this or alter the expected, best to rule nothing in and rule nothing out until you've done all the checks in all the variation of circumstances. Sometimes you can be too close and/or too involved with too much previous work to notice something that someone else can notice (often straight away with me - "try turning it the other way" - "oh, yes", only this week!).

Nigel Atkins

Chris I doubt the little extra compression will make any difference to needle requirements, but the air filters and exhaust do--Also with the fuel companies sneaking their ethanol into the fuel, they're allowed up to 5% without telling you, so again a little extra mixture for that as well You'll be surprised how much stronger it feels with the AAM needles

William Revit

Top tip if you are refurbishing your rockers... If you buy a new shaft, make sure the oil feed hole in the shaft and pedestals line up. The last couple of shafts I have had the hole has been drilled on the cock. Once in the pedestal and with the retaining screw in, the hole is mostly obscured thus restricting oil to the rockers! I drilled the hole out myself then tidied it up with a dremel.

Malcolm Le Chevalier

Isn't it a pleasant surprise when something works out well! The Sprite is coming along well but theprospect of refurbishing the calipers was looming. Not a problem with Bigg Redd just up the road. I bought these calipers new in 1992 and they had a lot of use up to 2000 and were put in a box, all dirty in 2004. I was expecting them to be totally seized but amazingly the pistons were free. I decided to change the seals and everything came apart like it was meant to and everything was in perfect condition. Really good clean, new seals and bolt the buggers on. Oh, I drilled and tapped the rear brake cylinders. Why on earth have I never done that before?

Clive Berry

I drilled and tapped the rear brake cylinders on my 1275. I have always treated that as something of a DIY test bed car So it has lots of modifications of this sort. , They do feel nice and secure when bolted, but there is a school of thought that says that totally fixed cylinders prevent the shoes from correctly self aligning and centralising within the drum. A small amount of movement is apparently important. I later reverted to using the C clips. I couldn't honestly say I have noticed much difference in brake operation.

GuyW

Thanks Malcolm, noted. I retorqued the head and reset tappet clearances which has quietened them down a bit, but I still think I’m going to replace the rocker assembly. Meanwhile I’m waiting for the postman to deliver some AAM needles. My heat shield rattles after 3000 miles. The rivets have worn loose creating a tinny rattle. At some point I’ll take the heat shield off, drill out the rivets, and bolt it together. I don’t want to take the carbs off right now. So I need a temporary solution. I was thinking of some rubber packer between the two plates but I’m not sure that’s going to survive the heat. Any suggestions?

Chris Madge

Chris, how about a slither of wood wedged between?

Philip Sellen

Yes I was thinking that would do the job. I’m just thinking if I can find something a bit more refined :D AAM needles arrived in the post today, fitted, and test driven. The engine setup likes these! Car is performing much better and for the first time I would described it as quick. Engine is much more happier at 4000 rpm.

Chris Madge

I'm not familiar with the set up for 1500 but maybe you could fashion a wire paper clip type fastening that would hold the two parts either together, or just apart?

Philip Sellen

Chris, Depends how long you want the temporary heatshield repair to last. Short term: Duck tape over the rivet heads and onto adjacent heat shield. Classic sticky-plaster repair. Or a blob of silicone sealer on each rivet Or earplugs

GuyW

Typically slow progress but I think I'm there at last, at least as far as the engine goes. Just the gearbox to check over and a bit of chassis welding and it shouldn't be toooo long before it goes back in. Part of the slowness has been my own caution, not wanting to rush as I have a habit of making mistakes. The other part of the slowness is down to the odd jobs someone else keeps putting on the list: i.e. remove a wall upstairs, install a new stair case and get started on a new bathroom (still WIP). This was basically a quick engine out to check the rings job that turned into a full re-bore and re-build. There are no performance upgrades as such, but I have given it a vernier cam sprocket with slightly advanced timing. For peace of mind, I used ARP bolts for the the main and big end bearings and finally installed a spin-off oil filter set-up that I was given many years ago. I've begun to clean up the gearbox to give it an external check-over, I don't feel brave enough to tackle a strip down, but I am treating it to an Alan Anstead roller release bearing. Colin

C Mee

Hi Chris I've just found this thread and read it all the way through. Its brilliant. I started a full restoration of a 69 midget 3 years ago and finished it last year. I stripped to the shell and used a rotisserie. Painstakingly and often painfully cleaning every nut and bolt. Reading your thread was a trip down memory lane. So many identical issues. Even down to the sgs 100l compressor! Thanks so much for this thread. I've loved reading it all. Brendon Le Page

B M Le Page

Thanks Brendon :) You had a lot work to restore your car, but it looks lovely now. I’m enjoying using the car at the moment, so much so it’s my daily driver when it’s dry. The change of needles has transformed the car, and there’s no sign of either the backfire when cold or the hesitation at higher revs. I still need to sort the rocker assembly out, and i’m considering my options for the seats. The drivers side seat vinyl isn’t too bad, and the seat could probably be made more comfortable with just new foam. The passenger vinyl is tired and ripped in places, the foam needs replacing, as well as the webbing. It’s an expensive repair when you consider replacing them with some second hand alternatives. I’m tempted by the MGF ones as they don’t look that out of place for a 70s Midget being a similar shape. Has anyone fitted MGF seats? What are they like to sit in in the Midget?

Chris Madge

Chris, good to hear the needles sorted it, sorry I thought you'd changed them at K&N install. Have you needed to 'advance' (double pun, I'm on fire today) the 123 dissy curve? Only the other day I was reading about a chap advising against going too far with needles and changing damper springs and the like with road going cars. I know my mate actually laughed when I said about changing the 123 curve setting off of the base setting, mates, no consideration for your feelings.

Nigel Atkins

Just reached a milestone, got my long stroke engine all back together and ready to refit to the modsports. We're at Thruxton in 6 weeks so plenty of time for a rolling road session and maybe a track test as well.

David Smith

Chris Really happy the needles worked out ok---- Dave with the long stroke is that like the reground off centre trick from big journal size to little or a purpouse built crank---A mate broke the crank in his 1275 Cooper S and took the punt and advertised for a crank in our local free paper, He got a phonecall from a bloke who said he had a couple and would bring them round for him to pick one, when he arrived he just had the one and said that was the only one that wouldn't fit his engine and wanted $50 for it, checked it out and it was a brand spanking new forged big journal ,couldn't get hold of it quick enough and it turned out to be a 3mm stroker when we put it together and had to deck the tops of the pistons a tiddle to get him in. You can really notice the extra stroke/compression on the road, it pulls like a train

William Revit

Willy AIUI the max on an offset ground marina crank is 86mm - mine is a purpose built 87mm. It must be at least 30 years old but the car has done very few races in that time. I think MED can also supply similar cranks nowadays.

David Smith

Cheers Dave, bit rude of me to ask really, but I was born a sticky beak, I just like to know stuff- I really like the look of your car you have the same down init driving position as me but the look of your car puts my old rattler to shame

William Revit

MED have a sale on at the moment. The EN40b 86mm crank is £1750, reduced from £2000. The standard EN40b is still £2000 though!

Bob Beaumont

I'm finally done rewiring my Sprite. Everything works except the turn signal indicator light and I believe that it's probably the bulb since it was intermittent before the rewire. I should have checked it before I put the dash back on. I also put the steering wheel on a bit out of center. But the most important thing is that all of the smoke stayed where it's supposed to be. Next comes pulling the diff to get it rebuilt since it's making noise. Even though it is awkward to get at, it will be easier than the rewiring. While it's being rebuilt, I'll repack the front bearings and I should be set for many years of (relatively) trouble free driving.

Martin

Nigel - I’m still on the first curve of the 123 dizzy. Once I get the rocker shaft sorted i’ll Investigate some more dynamic advance.

Chris Madge

Chris, I also misunderstood the hesitation at high revs I thought it was that you couldn't get the high revs, if so valve float could be because of weak springs - or so I read this week, think it was for 1500s but can't remember now. Be steady with your investigations with timing set up, the grass isn't always greener, overall is better than peaks. I've been reading lots of old MG mags this week '88-'96, IIRC in those mags but might have been elsewhere, for 1500s lacking top end suggestions of yellow damper springs or bigger carbs - for road going 1500s ! ??. Get your rocker shaft sorted then use the basics to set the car up as it is and see the improvements from just that first with using it before trying moving curves, as you might not need to or you might move only to return. Get the engine set within standard with allowance for what's been added after that you could be into diminishing returns. Good luck.

Nigel Atkins

Martin, well done on your wiring.I On my Frogeye wiring, just completed last week, everything worked except the indicator turn signal. Sound familiar? On mine it was simply that the bulb holder wasn't earthing to the dashboard. I soldered an extra earth wire to the bulbholder and took that direct to one of the gauge mounting bolts and that cured it. Maybe worth checking that if its not just the bulb in your case?

GuyW

Thanks Willy, yes it is a good looker, that's what caught my eye. It came up for sale in Sweden around 18 months ago and I simply couldn't resist it, while I'm OK on mechanics I could never do body and paint to that standard. The challenge is to make it go as well as it looks!

David Smith

. . . . and to keep the body and paint undamaged ? ;-)

GuyW

that as well Guy - easier than you may imagine if one chooses the right clubs and events to race with; CSCC for example enforce very high driving standards and don't condone contact of any kind. All the driver has to do is not cock it up and hit the scenery all on his/her own!

David Smith

Guy, Actually, the indicator works, occasionally. I took the bulb holder out and took some steel wool to it and the dash but still the same results so I'll try your suggestion. I've also been thinking that it might be the something wrong with the flasher unit itself. The light flashes after the lights have been on for a while but at an erratic pace. But that's just a guess on my part since elektrickery is all black magic to me. Good work on getting your home made harness working. You're a braver man than I.

Martin

Martian (!) I also rebuilt my non working flasher canister device. They are cheap enough and I could have bought new but I do like seeing what's inside such things. Mine appeared complete except that there is a coil in there which was charred and broken It was only a few turns of wire and I had some similar so I rewound it. Nothing lost if it was a failure, but it worked! There is a thin wire that heats and expands. I had to bend it's anchor point down a little at one end to get the flashing frequency rate right. On the one I had there are separate contacts inside and an output terminal for the dash indicator light so your problem may be something to do with that perhaps?

GuyW

Guy, I wouldn't even think about rebuilding my unit. They're only about $8.00 so if the grounding wire doesn't help, I'll replace the unit. Like I said, "You're a braver man than I".

Martin

B****R! I thought I'd better look at a small hole in the chassis while the engine is out. It's turned into a big hole, well, medium sized anyway. It's in the chassis rail beneath the triangle hole. Of course, further investigation revealed previous repairs in addition to the ones I already knew were there - I've considered calling the Sprite Patch given the number of repairs its received in the past. My exploration took me into the foot-well, where I found that some of the patches there are also failing. One that I uncovered today looked OK on the outside but was tissue paper thin and looked as though it was made out of biscuit tin metal! I'm determined to replace rather than patch over, so I have cut all the grot out of the chassis and have a template ready to mark out the metal. What thickness do I need for the chassis and floor? I have 2mm, 1.5 and 1mm available. Colin

C Mee

Colin Replacement floors are around 1.2 - 1.4 mm thick. I have had to replace chassis rails, but I'm guessing chassis rails are slightly thicker at 2mm - based on the thickness of the 1500 reinforcement bumper beams in engine bay and boot

Chris Madge

So no need to go raiding Mrs M's kitchen cupboards for biscuit tins then! Thanks Chris, that's really helpful. Colin

C Mee

Colin, I get my sheet steel from a metal fabricators. I think they make ducting and stuff like that. They have a big guillotine and a scrap metal bin that all of the offcuts go in, to be weighed in for recycling. They are happy for me to sort through for pieces for free. The offcuts that are too small to be of use to them would replace half a floor in a Sprite!p Some of the stuff us plated which can be good but when welding you have to be careful if fumes. Their standard thicknesses are 1.2mm, 1.6mm 2.0mm and upwards. The first is slightly heavier than most Sprite bodywork, floors etc.. 1.6 is good for the thicker panels like an inner sill and 2mm + is good for brackets. It might be worth a drive around local industrial estates and see if you can spot a fabricators.

GuyW

Yesterday I got round to replacing the rocker assembly. Places like Sussex mg offer a reconditioned complete rocker assembly with plain unbushed rockers as per original for about £140. Or you can pay a bit more for bushed and honed rockers with a new shaft and reuse the spacers, springs and pedestals. The original shaft was scored and scratched in places and the tips of the rockers had a worn groove in them. Hopefully the new setup should last a bit longer and run smoother. Swapping the bits over, assembly, refitting, and setting rocker clearances was a pleasant mornings work, and all seems well with a test drive. A mild annoyance is the locking nuts on the adjusting screws are 12mm rather than 1/2 inch for some reason. And it’s still the same thread which is too coarse for easy adjustment! 25 psi at idle, 60-65 when cruising, with the engine thoroughly warmed up. Seems ok? After a 100 miles or so I’ll recheck the clearances as things bed in.

Chris Madge

After about 100 miles I checked the tappet clearances, and a couple needed closing up a touch. But otherwise its all good and performing as it should. Next job was to fit some better seats. I have been looking around for a decent pair of mgf ones for a while. Eventually these came up, full black leather with just a very small amount of wear. And the seller was only 30 mins away. The exchange of seats for cash was done on the side of a motorway at a station for the traffic police!

Chris Madge

Fitting them is straight forward, and been done many times before. I wanted to retain the existing mounting holes rather than drill more holes. Some bar was welded across the seat runners, with the front raised by an inch. Holes measured carefully and drilled. Annoying I forgot to take a picture of the bars welded in situ. But this thread shows the idea: https://mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=97&subjectar=97&thread=2015031814153113170 The seats are a very snug fit in the midget, but there is just about enough room for them to slide, and space to turn the dial that reclines the back. The seat belt tensioner that comes on the mgf seats needs taking off, and the seats swapped over to give enough access to the dial. The seats feel as if you sit on them rather than in, but the bolsters hold you in the seat when cornering. After a couple of hours of driving they still feel comfortable (unlike my original and tired seats). Very happy with them :)

Chris Madge

Well done Chris. As I'm often too lazy to move my seat back to get in and out of the car I do wonder, as the Spridget doors are so narrow, if the seat bolsters might take a bashing or make getting in and out even more of a task for us elderly ones, especially with the hood up. I notice only a couple of bits of dubiousness in the cabin but will only comment on the door pull, to match the beehive indicators I'd guess, a mismatch of decades of no practical purpose to my eye and mind, but each to their own, but things like this lead on to tartan seat covers and worse . . .

Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel If anything the MGF seats making getting in and out a little easier as they are a bit higher than the worn out original seats. The bolsters on the MGF seat are quite small and you dont notice them when getting in and out. The chrome door pulls are my only concession to bling in the cabin. The original plastic ones are just, well, nasty in my humble opinion. The centre console is a home made affair with some storage, a light, and cigar lighter for charging my phone which I use for satnav. My wife has many talents but navigation really isnt one of them and I cant drive and read a map at the same time. That is it for the cabin. I like to keep things simple and minimal. No extra dials, no parcel shelf, fury dice, or tartan seat covers :)

Chris Madge

I have been meaning to have a look at the rather crusty mechanical fuel pump on the basis that its old and will eventually let me down. But it works so I havent. Until now. After a trip out last weekend I noticed a slight whiff of petrol and on further inspection the pump seemed to have a very slight leak from the casing. Time to replace. I'm happy with the mechanical pump system. The fuel tends to drain back to the tank when the car is not used, so after a day or so it takes a few cranks to pull fuel through. But if it means the oil pressure gets time to build up first then that is not a bad thing, right? My engine isnt original to the car. It came out of a Triumph Spitfire and put into mine as a GoldSeal unit i believe. So sourcing the right pump meant tracing the original engine number to a Triumph spitfire year. The engine is from a 74/75 spitfire so its possibly older than the Midget. I took the head off the new pump to inspect the inside and found a small piece of swarf. I dont suppose you can expect much for £20, sigh. New pump was fitted without much trouble. Access is tricky with the engine in the car and its right under all the wires to the starter solenoid. When fitting I unknowingly managed to disconnect one of the spade connectors. So when the car wouldnt start I immediately blamed the pump and almost took it back out before I found the real problem! All fine now.

Chris Madge

Chris I got one for the Frogeye from B-hive but not fitted yet. You've prompted me to check inside before fitting, good idea, thanks!

Bill Bretherton

Chris, when I had a 1500 with mechanical fuel pump, I found a routine that was good for starting and minimised the cranking needed to fill the carbs.I would initially turn on the ignition, leave the choke in and crank the engine through 4 compressions. Then stop, put my seat belt on whilst counting to 10. Then pull out the choke and crank again, when it would almost instantly fire up. The logic was that the pump builds pressure initially, but it then takes a few moments whist that pressure continues to push fuel into the carb float chambers. That few moments of rest allows the carbs to fill, without the need for continual battery-draining cranking.

GuyW

Thanks Guy, I'll give that a try next time !

Chris Madge

Hi Chris, Just get back to the MGF seats for the Midget, I too have bought a pair for the K Series when I get around to it 🤪 the photo attached are similar except mine has the letters MG stitched into the head rests. Will take a photo when I get round to it. I think they look excellent in the midget and yes more comfortable too. This thread is great and I do read it now and again. As you know I have yet to finish the body work, then start on the fit out and leave the engine and gearbox out to strip down on the bench and rebuild. So it will be a while yet before I get to your stage 😂 I will refer to this thread when I start on the engine and box. Be safe out there. Dave

Yojic

Its about time we had some more pictures of rust and welding in the forum! Thankfully this isnt my car, it belongs to my young member friend Alex and I'm doing the repairs whilst showing him whats involved and how to do it. New sills, repair or replace the floor and cross member, and repairs to heel board, rear bulkhead, and spring hanger. A fair bit more than we expected.

Chris Madge

and some more pictures of rust

Chris Madge

There is evidence that this is the second sill repair job, with the remains of the original and another at the end of the cross member. There is several patches on the rear bulkhead, 3 thick in places. One of the bolts that secures the spring hanger screws into a captive nut rather than the original block of steel. That needs sorting out as its inadequate in my opinion.

Chris Madge

How does the horn push in the centre of the steering wheel come off? Does it just prise off?

Chris Madge

Yes Chris, it just prises out.prise One thing I learnt the hard way is to cover windscreen glass completely when welding nearby, or grinding, that's even worse! I draped an old curtain over mine and thought that was good enough but the hot sparks found their way through gaps and were still hot enough to embed themselves into the glass.

GuyW

Guy, thats called "patina" nowadays, it ads value ;)

A de Best

I am very wary of contradicting Guy, but that steering wheel looks like mine for which, if I remember correctly, the horn push needs to be twisted about a quarter of an inch or so anti clockwise before it comes out easily. It's some years since I have removed mine so my memory could be playing games but I don't think so.

Ray Rowsell

Ray you shouldn't be wary of me, I am often wrong but do like to experiment. Maybe a Sprite one is different to an MG. Or maybe I just used excessive force! I am also quite good at damaging things ( see below!) Yes Arie, but stone chips that then rust are difficult to see past the headlight glare when driving on a wet night! I then spent hours with glass cutting paste trying to remove them. It sort of worked but turned parts of the screen into crazy lenses which just added to my distorted view of the world. It is surprising how much damage can quickly be inflicted to a bit of windscreen. Ended up buying a new glass and then discovered the joys of fitting glass to screen and screen to car!

GuyW

Good tip Guy. I had the same experience when grinding and cutting rust out of my Alfasud (a seemingly endless and ultimately fruitless task). The hot metal penetrated an old bedspread and embedded itself in the screen. A little fortunately the windscreen cracked a short time after the repairs (stone damage) and its replacement was covered by the car's insurance.

Jeremy MkIII

Chris, I can't remember how the horn push comes off but it is different to later ones. Whatever you do don't damage that lovely steering wheel or horn assembly as I do remember decades back the parts were either NLA or expensive if repro so I doubt things are a lot better now. The wire spoke steering wheel combined with 3.5" steel wheels give a really lovely steering feel.

Nigel Atkins

Don't prise that horn push off. Press down with full hand and turn anti-clockwise. If you prise it off you will crack the horn surround and break the white nylon retainer. See https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174393058884 for replacement white nylon retainer. Rob

MG Moneypit

Yes, the horn push is definitely a bayonet fit; quarter turn. Do not prise it off!

Philip Sellen

Mea culpa. Bad comment from me about that horn earier. Sorry!

GuyW

Thanks all, for the replies. I’ll try the quarter turn. Yep one of the windows on my car had a few burn marks from grinding. Lesson learnt. I even managed to do the same to my tea mug. It has a fetching black splatter pattern on one side, quite artistic I told my wife. Her reply isn’t repeatable on a forum.

Chris Madge

This thread was discussed between 02/01/2019 and 20/10/2020

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