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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Wheel bearings - a beginners question

I am not a beginner, but these days cannot remember these details so it comes to the same thing!

Which way round do the rear wheel bearings go in? The bearings I have have all of their lettering on the same side, both inner and outer races. No where does it say "thrust". I presume the lettered face points outwards, away from the hub, but is this right?
GuyW

It doesn't matter which way they go in as they're just standard deep groove ball bearings and will take the same thrust in either direction.
David Billington

Thanks David.
Explains why I couldn't remember!
GuyW

Yup. Either way is fine.
Malcolm Le Chevalier

Yep Malcolm. I can still remember from when David told me.

;-)
GuyW

So, which way round did you fit them? ;o)
Dave O'Neill 2

LOL. Can't remember now David.
GuyW

Actually, I have only fitted one so far and that went together with the lettered side outwards. I have just flipped the car over to do the other side. I am assembling this stuff whilst its still on the rotisserie - its very civilised standing up to work on these parts!

Now another decision, should I fit the second bearing with the lettering inwards as an experiment to see which one lasts longer? Or should it go in the same way round as the other so as not to put the whole car out of balance?
GuyW

A better question, where did you get rhe orginal bearing from, they dont make them anymore as i recall

Here we go, only 762 more comments to we reach the end of this thread... can we include Zppd in oil and round it off to 1500 comments

Haha

Prop
1 Paper

Prop,

The rear wheel bearing is a standard off the shelf metric deep groove ball bearing that can be bought at any good bearing supplier from numerous makers.
David Billington

If the bearing has a thicker side to the outer race, then this side should be fitted facing inwards.

Stick it in the freezer before fitting......
Oggers

No Oggers, other than the lettering they were symmetrical with no thicker flanges on either outer or inner race. The hubs are good and the bearings were a tight fit, needed tapping in with an old bearing but they didn't need freezing. I also always assemble rear bearings with just a smear of that grey Locktight bearing seal.

Anyone ever fitted SKF Speedi-sleeves on the back axle for the wheel bearing seals to run on? Who supplies them as retail? Mine are a bit eroded but I went round them with emery cloth and I think they are OK. All assembled now but it may be something I have to come back to.
GuyW

Guy,

Simplybearings do them but I don't know the size, see http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Products-Speedi+Sleeves/c4747_5335/index.html , I would expect many others do them as well such as BearingBoys http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/search.cgi?search=speedi+sleeve
. I've used both companies and had good service from both. Never actually needed one myself yet. Looks like you'll have to copy and paste those links.
David Billington

I was just kidding in my last response

Well... bad weather here... i was planning on replacing my acel cable agian today... but no

Congrats guy

Prop
1 Paper

Thanks for the links David. They are cheaper than I expected. £13.80 each for a 1.75" one, though I will need to double check that size is right.

I have fitted the hubs, but not yet the half shafts so if I am going to try these then now is the time to do so.
GuyW

Guy

Fair enough...I am sure when I did mine they did have a thicker outer race on one side. Pretty sure I bought them from MGOC, but not 100% certain.
Oggers

Just went out to the garage to double check the one not yet fitted. No thicker flanges, the sides look identical other than the lettering.
GuyW

Guy

Not sure if you are still looking to buy rear wheel bearings, but if you are, Malcolm Chevalier ('Chevalier Classics') sells these with his rear hub halfshaft gaskets in a range of thicknesses as a kit. This includes good quality parts and is good value - his contact details are at: https://en-gb.facebook.com/chevalierclassics/

(And you can read his contact info without being a Friendface member!)

Cheers
Mike

PS the availability of good rear wheel bearings is easier than used to be for the fronts as a more common bearing type, but if you really want to you can find R&M rear wheel bearings for sensible money.
M Wood

The rear wheel bearings are, as above, a single row deep groove ball bearing, and the part number is 6207. It is a 'Metric' series bearing, and the sizes are OD 72mm, ID 35mm and width 17mm.

As standard, there are no seals fitted to the bearing itself, but people have fitted a 6207RS (one lip seal, and fitted it with the seal on the hub seal side). 62072RS (2 seals) have also been fitted, but I do wonder about using a 'sealed' bearing and how long it would last?

The standard hub seal is an 'Inch' series Payen NA346 (C610 old number), and the sizes are OD 2.500", ID 1.750" and width 0.375".

2 types of oil seal are available - the single lip is R21 or SC, and with an additional 'wiper' is R23 or TC, which gives a bit more security, but I don't think they were available 'in the day'?

Richard

Richard Wale

Thanks, both. I already had the seals and bearings in stock. In fact I have three unused sets.
GuyW

Richard,
Why would you be worried about the life of a sealed bearing, all modern front wheel drive cars have sealed front wheel bearings. I fit sealed bearings, with rubber seal to overcome problems with wear on the axle tube due to the oil seal, stops the leaks.

Mike.
M J Pearson

Mike, is that just sealed on the backside then, so he bearing is still lubricated as normal? Or are these some sort of sealed, self lubricating bearings?

I am asking as its sounds as if it may be cheaper and more effective solution than getting Speedi-sleeves for the axle.
GuyW

Guy,
I think you can get bearings with a seal one side and ones with seals both sides. the ones I have fitted have been sealed both sides. they are prepacked with lubricant. However there is nothing to prevent you taking one of the seals out. Fit the bearing with the seal to the inside.

Mike
M J Pearson

Mike,

I suppose just not having any experience of 2RS in a rear hub environment, but if there is any wear on the seal part of the axle tube, they sound like a very good solution.

Richard
Richard Wale

Thanks Mike,
Just checking the prices and they are hardly more than standard bearings (except of course I have a surfeit of those anyway!)
Sorry to ask again but can you confirm that you successfully use this sort without a separate normal hub seal?
The description describes rubber shielding to exclude dirt but doesn't actually say they are oil-tight.


I think the hubs I have will originally have used the old felt soaked in oil type of seal. There is no evidence at all of a linear wear ring on the axle casing, as is usual, but the surface is generally pitted and I suspect wont seal very well with a rubber lip type of seal
GuyW

THe one problem with shielded or sealed bearing is there is little or no lubricant reaching the lip seal so that may wear prematurely. However I have used these bearings without any problems (and the seal too and a good dollop of grease behind it).
Graeme Williams

Since I have the lip seals in place already, I will leave them there. Its just that I doubt the lip will either seal or last long as a seal running over a slightly pitted surface. The alternatives seem to be Speedi-sleves or this sealed bearing solution.
GuyW

I have used Speedi sleeves on a Jeep axle and they have worked fine. Sure beats paying for new shafts.

Clare
Clare Ravenwood

After some queries about sealed bearings, from members, over the weekend
and following Richard Wale kindly supplying the reference number for the sealed bearings I had a look at Simply Bearings website.

I use bearings, from this firm, for my popular roller clutch release bearings.

There are a lot of additional letters and numbers applicable to the variations to the bearing 6207 depending upon supplier and whether or not the bearing has rubber or steel seals.

Some have additional code C3 and there is a link that explains basically C3 is a different tolerance.

I have some boxed wheel bearing kits on the shelf so dug them out to see the designation.

The boxes are Premier Wheel bearing kit BRT288 showing
also GHK1143 'Hub Brg kit RR midget. The sealed kit holds a bearing, gasket, seal and tab washer.

The bearings are marked NSK 6207 C3. NSK being the manufacturer.

If purchasing rubber sealed bearings it might be worth just asking for the alternative of this designation with rubber seals.

A plug for Simply Bearings, with whom I have no connection, - I find them helpful and postage is free and delivery prompt.

Alan
Alan Anstead

'C3' is the first level of 'greater internal' clearance bearings, and would not normally be used for wheel bearings - definitely not 'Premium'!

I have used Simple Bearings as well, and also found them very good.

Richard
Richard Wale

Hi Richard.
Say "hello" to Sally for me. See you at NEC this November?
Premium is the name on the box. The contents are sealed wrapped together?
Alan
Alan Anstead

Premier not Premium for brand.
6207 space then C3
Photo attached.
Alan


Alan Anstead

C3 grade is definately not recommended for wheel bearing use. They are intended for high temperature applications so greater clearance which would give too much run-out for a wheel.

I ordered a 'premium' grade (not C3!) with single plastic ? seals. They came with double seals with instructions to hook one seal out if required.

Supplied by Simply Bearings who were very quick, free delivery and very reasonable prices.
GuyW

I have e-mailed Premier to see what they have to say.
Alan
Alan Anstead

I don't think it would make much difference as the main resistance to rear wheel movement in a standard car is the bending of the half shaft, the bearing taking vertical and side loading.
David Billington

Too much clearance/ play in a bearing can result in breaking the halfshaft. I managed to break one of Peter May's halfshafts!
Dave O'Neill 2

I broke the outer end of one of my standard later shafts which is pretty unusual for a road car as I understand it but I had been running wide tyres for a while. The inside finish on the mushroomed ends of the half shaft wouldn't help as it was fairly roughly machined. The break exhibited standard fatigue failure symptoms.
David Billington

I'll post a photo of the broken shaft, as I recently found the remains.
Dave O'Neill 2



Hi
I have a Premier BRT288 wheel bearing kit for fitment to the rear axle of a 1959 Austin Healey Sprite Mk1.
The suppliers label shows GHK1143 Hub Brg kit RR Midget. The Midget & Austin Healey are the same car with different badges.
The actual bearing is an NSK 6207 C3. Can you confirm that a bearing to C3 tolerance is suitable for a rear hub application.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Alan

REPLY:

Hi

6207/c3 is the bearing you need for this application

Best Regards
Central Sales Department
BRT Bearings Group
Tel: 01945 474655
Fax 01945 474186
www.brt-bearings.com


A short and to the point reply.
Alan
Alan Anstead

New thread started for halfshaft.
Dave O'Neill 2

Alan,
This is the information supplied on the "Simply Bearings" website regarding C3


C3 Bearings Summary
The bore, diameter and width of C3 bearings are identical to the none C3 version.
C3 are exactly the same quality but have a different a purpose.
C3 bearings have additional internal radial clearances to allow expansion in high speed / temperature environments.
Typically suited to hot and high speed environments ( fans, high speed motors etc)
They can feel loose until at running temperature and speed.
They are unsuitable where critical alignment is required from the onset..
Unless the bearing you are replacing specifically says C3 on it then you should not replace it with a C3 bearing.
A rule of thumb is to replace like for like, there is no advantage to a C3 bearing in place of a standard bearing.

My suspicion is that in the world of bearing specifications, the application of rear hubs in a 1950's design probably doesn't come anywhere near their definition of "critical alignment".
GuyW

I suspect, but could be wrong, that C3 may be the equivalent of our old 3 dot. 3 dot was common for many applications and would be fine. The differences are small, only a few ten thousands between 1 and 3 anyway.

Trev
T Mason

Long long ago Growler, South wrote:

And I shall start raving about fully-sealed bearings (you know, the pre-lubed type with integral oil seals)
They're lovely. Last forever and supplement the existing oil seal- no more leaks, and no more damaged bearings from differential metal flakes.
SKF part# 6207zz
NSK part# 6207vvc-mav2



I mounted the SKF's they are lovely, last for 120.000 km so far.

Flip
Flip Brühl

Flip,

I couldn't find the 6207vvc-mav2 but the SKF 6207zz is a shielded bearing rather than sealed so will allow some transfer of lubricant but keep out larger debris.
David Billington

This thread was discussed between 05/08/2017 and 20/08/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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