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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Wheels, tyres and panhard rod

Looking to treat the Sprite to a new set of replica minlites.

My Sprite is a square wheel arch car.

What wheel size should I go for - 5 or 5.5 inch ?

What tyre size should I go for ?

Do I have to fit a panhard to stop the wheels hitting the body work ?


Ta,

Malc
Malc Gilliver

mine's an RWA, but from reading other replies on here:

5J,

I'd then go for 165/70 as 175 might be a bit of a squeeze,

and possibly not for 165 but probably for 175. My 175s on 5J KN minilite copies can hit the spring hangers even with a 1/4 inch spacer. I've no panhard or watt linkage though, but lots of beans are given.

And another excuse for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLobOcY9WM8
Rob Armstrong

Malc,
it all depends on what you want and what you want them to do or be used for

as far as tyres go grip is about design and construction rather than width

the fashion for some time has been for wider wheels and tyres but they may not be the best choice for a standard small, light road going car like a Spridget

these links might help with sizes - http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg4.html

tyre manufacturers have a recommend rim width range for there tyres, as an example only have a look at the 'Size & Specifications' tab on the link below for Toyo 350 tyres - I have these tyres and would not recommend them for a Spridget - note also that stated sizes are nominal

I've got a 155 width tyres on my 5j minilite copies but would be happy with 145 width
Nigel Atkins

true Nigel, I forgot to say that dad's standard midget feels (to me) overtyred with 175s on. I used to have 155/80 but prefer the feel of the 175s on the lower, harder and much more chuckable K.
Rob Armstrong

Rob,
I think you've done 'a Nigel' in your previous post :)

I might try a 165/70/13 as that was the natural alternative to 145/80/13, Dave O'Niell say 155/80/13 was a factory alternative

a chap put on another thread that Lotus said the spacesaver sized wheel was just right for the original Elise but knew customers would not accept it so put on wider wheels and the fashion is for even wider now (hence nowadays tyre noise and some cars stuck in snow)
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Rob and Nigel,

So 5J with 155/80 or 165/75

Rob, what did I watch on your youtube link ?

Nigel, thanks for the link.

With a square arch car are the 155/165 tyres going to rub without a panhard rod ?

Ta,

Malc

Malc Gilliver

Top down view of the rear tyre. I find it interesting cos it shows how much the tyre moves around.

155 should be fine without further location.
Rob Armstrong

Malc,
the standard tyre on a Rostyle wheel (4.5" JSL x 13") was 145/80/13 so to keep the speedo accurate and same gearing you'd be looking at 165/70/13

IIRC you can use 165 on SWA but there are loads of threads on this subject in the Archives so don't trust to my memory

155 should be no problem

but all sizes depend on if any changes have been made to your car and actual fit front and rear - the panhard shouldn't be necessary if your suspension, rear axle and car are set up reasonably (well to Spridget standards)

note my note about stated tyre sizes being nominal, as you saw on the Toyo 350 chart sizes even vary on the same make and model of tyre let alone different models or make and models

my Toyo 350 (don't buy these) have very stiff and upright sidewalls so don't round out as much as another make and model of tyre of the same (nominal) size

rear axles are not often dead centre of the car width wise and the rear wheel or wheels may not be central to the wheel arch opening and/or the rear panels are not symmetrical to each other, that just how the cars are
Nigel Atkins

Nigel is right.
I use 165/70 R13 on 5.5" wheels on a square wheel arch car. They do fit well, but I think it is about as wide as one can go without using a Panhard rod. Even then not all tyres of this size are the same - there is still some variation in tread width for that quoted size. And more significantly, the bulge in the side walls varies between makes and some will contact the wheel arch.

One can spread the wheel arches a bit, using a scissor jack and I have done that with my car, but it only eases the clearance by a small additional amount. The same tyres on 5" rims might be a slightly safer choice.
Guy W

Ta,

4off 5J minilite copies, 4off 165/70/13 tyres

and I can put the panhard rod on next years to do list.

Malc

Edit, just seen Guy's post sort of confirming stuff, thanks
Malc Gilliver

Malc,

A word of caution. I have 5J Minators on a square wheel arch Midget.

I fitted 165/70/13 tyres which still rub against the wheel arch when cornering with a passenger up, and that's with a panhard rod fitted.

It's 155s for me next time.

Dave
D MATTHEWS

Malc,
do note what Guy and I have put about the variation in actual (compared to nominal) size in side wall width of tyres

using the same make and model of tyre, a 165 width tyre on a 5" rim will bow out very slightly more than if it was on a 5.5" rim

sorry I forgot to put the link previously for -
>>tyre manufacturers have a recommend rim width range for there tyres, as an example only have a look at the 'Size & Specifications' tab on the link below for Toyo 350 tyres - I have these tyres and would not recommend them for a Spridget - note also that stated sizes are nominal<<

http://www.toyo.co.uk/tire/pattern/350
Nigel Atkins

With 165's you will have to flatten the inner wheel arch lip.
Otherwise you will wear out the side of the tire before the thread!
When there is no filler on the wing it can be done without painting but chances are you will crack it.

155's should not give a problem.
Onno K

Attached is a picture of 165's fitted, the arch has been slightly flared with a bottle jack. Prior to doing this the tyres did rub on lip of the arch when cornering

If you are fitting minilites you may also need to address the problem of the threads on the track rod ends rubbing on the insides of the front wheels


S G Macfarlane

Well, they fit and look, I think, stunning !

Had a little drive around and nothing fouled, but i might be benefitting from the rebuilt LA's and the new 1275cc spec rear springs I fitted 1500 miles ago - in 1992 !!

I suspect I'll be jacking the rear arches out and fitting a panhard rod , but today I'm one happy Sprite owner !


Malc


Malc Gilliver

No-one listened last time I said this but I'll repeat it anyway. Whether or not any particular wheel/tyre combination will rub or not depends not just on the offset of the actual wheel but the height of the wheel in relation to the arch since the fattest part of the tyre is not the tread but the middle of the sidewall. Consequently the tyre may not rub until you are off on holiday with a boot full of luggage as well as that space behind the seats...
Daniel Stapleton

Daniel,

The photo I attached, shows the car pointing up a reasonably steep drive.

When parked on the level, the tyre is not buried in the wheel arch, so from what I have seen, your logic makes a lot of sense.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Malc,
very posh, what make and model of tyre did you get?

I'm not use to clean wheels so do I take it you stuck to 5" rims and 165/70/13 tyres


Daniel,
we did mention a little of that but you put greater details and the good point about when the car is fully loaded

btw - today was the first day of running on Mobil 1 10w-60 and I'm also interest to see it's consumption compared to the previous 15w-50 (which replaced that 0w-40 you warned me about!)

I topped up the dashpots with 90 weight gear oil and the running was noticeable smooth even on a shorter slightly less spirited than usual run out
Nigel Atkins

The wheels are JBW from the MGB Hive, and the tyres are Goodyear Efficient Grip Compact 165/70/R13.

My tyres on all my cars for the last 10 years have been Goodyear's or Conti's, the Goodyears got a better review so I've gone for these.

Time will tell !

Malc
Malc Gilliver

I'd be interested to know how you get on with the tyres as first financial (if there ever is one) I'll change my tyres, say after 1,000 miles

if you know the next bit then just ignore it -
take it easy on the new tyres for about the first 100 miles (200 wet) and check the torque on the wheel nuts (45lb/ft) after about the first 30 or so miles
Nigel Atkins

Tyrereviews website is a quite interesting proposition

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyres_For/MG/Midget-Mk3.htm

Unfortunately, although they include Midgets, the number of responses is far too few to learn much from.

I did wonder if either - or both - of the reviews were posted by Nigel.
Guy W

I've never noticed that you can specify make and model of car

if the reviews are good as reviews then yes they're mine, if there are mistakes and not so well written then they're definitely mine
Nigel Atkins

Update.

Fitted a Peter May panhard rod, yesterday as I was having tyre to wing contact, can't believe how much nicer the car feels when entering and exiting roundabouts and safer on the motorway

The Goodyears are proving both comfortable (need to check psi) and grippy, still building up to a 'limit finding exercise !


Malc
Malc Gilliver

Malc, do give me a ring before you buy on 01926 817890
J L HEAP

oops too late, missed your post Malc.
J L HEAP

This thread was discussed between 14/08/2013 and 11/09/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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