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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Which holes for oil cooler hoses?

Ok next question for my learned friends. I've moved onto the oil cooler as some of the others jobs are held up and it's a nice easy job. Well it would be if I could remember which holes the hoses go through. I've had a look through my books and the archive for a photo but no joy. I know Prop had along thread on oil coolers but I couldn't find it either. So what are each of the holes 1 to 4 used for? Also is that grommet the correct one for the hoses? It seems a bit big and bulky. I bought some for it but I've got a mixed bag of grommets so not sure which are which.


Greg H

sorry don't know answer but if you have the correct grommets for the oil pipes then they will only properly fit two of the four holes

but the reason for my post is probably something you already know - be very careful when fitting the pipe unions to the oil cooler use two spanners one to stop the inlet and outlet connectors twisting on the oil cooler also to make sure the oil cooler doesn't have anything in it

if you've worked on the engine I think I'd bypass the cooler until after the first oil change/flush just to make sure no muck of any sort gets into it

I'd keep the protective caps covering the open ends just to make sure nothing gets in before you connect up
Nigel Atkins

Yes will have two spanners on it otherwise that fitting would tare off quite quickly. New engine which I've only just finished rebuilding but I can't bypass the oil cooler as it's always had one. All Aus cars do. So the fittngs for it are in the block and I have no bypass pipe. I've flushed the cooler and I belive the filter is after the cooler so all should be ok. I had protective tape on the cooler and just took it off then realised I didn't know where the hoses went.

If that grommet is correct I'm thinking 1 and 4. What about the wiring loom everyone has one of those so what hole does that go in?
Greg H

Hi Greg,

here is a photo of an engine bay that I took right after I bought the car (many, many years ago), and it had a cooler fitted from the factory (I had just repainted the inner shields before this photo, but re-used the original holes).

unfortunately, this is not of the front panel but of the inner shield, so the holes don't exactly match up with your photo of the front panel...

two of the holes in your photo are for the hoses, one is for the headlight wiring, and the last one is for access to one of the radiator attachments and gets a solid plug


By the way, the cooler is BEFORE the oil filter (the oil route is: pump, cooler, filter, engine), so I agree with Nigel that it is ideal to break in a new engine without the cooler in the circuit. A bypass pipe from a mini (same engine) or marina (ditto) will fit.

Granted, that oil is filtered right after the cooler, so it isn't a deal breaker, either way, it is just nice to make sure that it is totally clean inside there (and why it is a good idea to replace a cooler when rebuilding an engine, because they are so hard to clean the inside of, kind of like putting on dirty clothes after a shower, I guess).



Norm


Norm Kerr

That grommet is correct.I think holes 2 and 3 are correct. Measure the hole diameter and measure the groove in the grommet. That will confirm which hole is which. I don't recall a mud shield with four holes, but my cars are all early years.
J Bubela

ok thanks I'll go with 2 and 3 but I think I may struggle to get that grommets in there. Just wondering now if the grommets go in the front panel or the splash guards?
Greg H

Greg,
When I had an oil cooler the grommets were cut through so that they could be straightened out. This made fitting much easier. If I recall correctly, I would thread the pipe through the hole first and the fit the grommet around the pipe.
Let me know how it goes as I have an oil cooler to fit, unless someone on here talks me out of it!
Thanks
Dave
Dave Brown

I'd go with 1 and 4 (but could be wrong) as said before where the correct oil hose grommets fit, I'd imagine the larger set of holes

if you have the vertical rad then a bracket from the fan shrouding panels will help with holes alignment

if you have X-flow then a stand off V bracket from the inner wing - info from page 103 of Original Sprite & midget The Restorer’s Guide by Terry Horler –
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1906133336

you could perhaps just plumb the two pipes together to by-pass the cooler allowing for pressure of course

I know you want to keep the car original (despite that water pump :)) so will want to have the oil cooler and I don't know how much hotter Taz is to California but I’m not a fan of oil coolers and would prefer to use modern better oils instead if possible if I was using the car for regular driving
Nigel Atkins

I'm leaning towards 1 & 4.

2 is probably wiring loom and 3 is access hole for top radiator bolt, although looking through it should confirm.

As Dave says, the grommet should have a split in it. ISTR that it is easier to fit the grommet to the panel first, then feed the pipe through it.
Dave O'Neill2

yes, 1 and 4, they correspond closest with the splash shield but IIRC the Aussie built cars don't have the latter?
Don't believe the grommets should be split or cut!
and yes fit grommets then feed hose through
David Smith

Greg,
as I think hoses would be a tight fit I'd have though grommets in first, spray inside them rubber/nylon spray lube and then get hoes through

Dave Brown,
only just seen your comment about being talked out of it, put up a thread and I'll have a go, espescially for UK use :)
Nigel Atkins

Greg,
ignore my last post as I've now had a look in the parts catalogue and it looks like you wouldn't get the hose end fittings through with the grommets on - well with original style hoses
Nigel Atkins

Myself I used hole # 5(off-side: 1500). Not pretty, but neither is my car. Less angle and stress on the hoses. Of course if one were using those lovely braided lines...


Richard Reeves

Well I had a go at fitting the pipes and yes holes 1 and 4 are the ones but I didn't get it done because the new pipes don't fit too well and will need some mods to make a neat job of it.

The orginal pipes are shorter and have 90 degree (cooler) and 45 degree (engine) fittings but the new ones are only 90 on one end and straight on the other end engine which makes them stick up and with the extra length a bit unntidy. They would work but I think should really be a bit neater.

Original: 1220mm (48") and 1120mm (44")
New: 1200mm (47") and 1580mm (62")

Even with the long one at the back of engine and the other end on the furthest cooler fitting it's too long.

So I'll have to see if I can get one shortened and correct fittings on both of them.

I know Prop had some problems with regard to his hoses being too long and if they were the same length as mine I can see why.


Greg H

original pipes


Greg H

When I built my Sprite, I used MGB hoses. One fitted fine but one was tto long, so I had it shortened and a different end fitted at my local Pirtek.

http://www.pirtek.co.uk/
Dave O'Neill2

sounds like the best course of action is to have one's own hoses made by a custom hose shop, to get the correct length and the correct end fittings, and return those "universal" ones to the vendor, because I agree with you, Greg, they just don't fit as well as your original ones


Norm

Norm Kerr

I'll get the ones I've got modified because there's enough lentth in both to cut the ends off and put 45 degree fittings on. It'll be cheaper and easier than sending them back. They were meant to be 1275 hoses and came from a well known and reputable UK supplier. They would work but if you want a neet job before you order these check they have the correct fittings on them and are the correct length.

With the new hoses you can't avoid the cross over either as the right cooler hoses has to go through the right hole in the front panel. It's too tight a bend in the left hole and so the long hose has to go through the other.

Assembly of my car is going quite slow and slower than it should. In part because as I put it together I'm finding a few extra things that need attention but poor fitting parts is an ongoing issue which is quite annoying. On the upside the people on BBS give me plenty of help when needed, a bit of motivation and make me think it should be worth the effort. If it wasn't for you guys I may have scrapped it a while back and bought a nice late model MX-5. I could be cruising in it now, but I'm sure it wouldn't give me the same statisfaction so I'll just have to plod on.
Greg H

Hi, if the hoses are too long, not sure how much someone would charge to shorten the pipes but if they are rubber and not braided why not fit an in line thermostat, then you can shorten the hoses yourself when you fit them and won't have to worry about sending them off.

As above not sure how the 2 costs compare, stat vs modifying end fittings.

Thanks
Mark
Mark Whitmore

I noted in Richard's photo he seems to have a thermostat and as he's on California he'll know the min and max weather temperatures there to compare with Greg's in Tazmania (my interest really to test my theory on oil coolers)

with oil thermostats IIRC there are two sorts(?)
Nigel Atkins

Mark the pipes are rubber. A thermostat is a good suggestion but I really need the 45 degree fittings on the engine and I wouldn't put one as I'm trying to keep the car original. It should end up fairly close, except of course for that dodgey English water pump. lol

Not really that hot in tassie. Not much warmer than the south of England, perhaps 1 or 2 degrees so I defintely don't need the cooler but on the mainland very worth while I'm sure.
Greg H

I was thinking of the thermostat in addition to angled pipe ends

if your only a bit warmer than south England (which probably isn't much if at all warmer than the Midlands) and you're going to be using the car for reasonable mileage on the road throughout the year then I'd add a thermostat, well I wouldn't have an oil cooler but I know you'll disagree on that :)

full flow and something else are what I was thinking of for tyoes of oil stat

I had a car with an oil temp gauge and when I went out on the good weather winter days (which we have many of here) I stopped looking at that gauge as it sat so low
Nigel Atkins

The thermostat isn't needed in hot weather, it's the cold weather that makes it a must. Oil has to come to a certain temp to be at it's best. Modern oils with all additives maybe even more.
Alex G Matla

if Greg's weather is only a couple of degrees warmer that south of England then he gets cold weather and when I said I went out on the good weather winter days that included days when it was just above freezing

the sun shines but the air is crisp, lovely, just dress suitably

also I'd imagine, but never checked, in California the nights can get quite cold
Nigel Atkins

Personally I only added an Oil Cooler (with thermostat) when I changed to my 1380. I did have an oil temp gauge and could see the temperature rising (along with pressure dropping) on sustained high speed cruising in hot weather. By which I mean 90mph+ for long sections down to LM.
Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

I didn't have an oil temp guage but the pressure would drop quite a lot in the summer months here when the engine was hot. It's possibly not necessary (and IIRC Vizard agrees with Nigel), but with a thermostat, it certainly makes a big (+ve) difference to oil pressure when the engine's hot on mine.
OrangeSpyderMan

Oh, and to keep on track, my hoses go through the "big" hole ("#5", as Richard Reeves called it). Likewise, not very tidy, but then neither is the rest of the car. Or the driver.
OrangeSpyderMan

Hey greg

I found that putting the long hose on the right side of the cooler and the shorter on the left side and run the long hose to the back and the short to the front... Helped alot...i couldnt get them to run thur the 2 grommet holes so i ran thur the large hole...i also used nylon cable tie downs

One HUGE tip i got that makes a big differance was to use anti siezure compound on the thread fittings

I also ran my hoses under the lip on the fender for the hood

But yeah, its a bear that took several days

But agian anti seizurecompond is your best friend
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Prop I ran the long hose from the furthest fitting away on the cooler to the back of the engine (as per pic) but still too long. Yes antisieze is a good idea. I will have to get the pipes modified.

Although the cooler was standard for Aus I'm sure it's not needed in Tas and I'm my engine would probably be better off without it. So because of my current problem I think I'll get it going without. Nigel so as per your good suggestion. ;) I should be able to chase up that pipe and fitings to do it without too much problem.

I'd like it all orginal but the car is slowly wearing me down. I'll put the cooler on later.
Greg H

This thread was discussed between 06/01/2012 and 09/01/2012

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