MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - which water pump pulley

Hi I own a 1970 midget with a 1275 engine that needs a water pump pulley. I spotted these 2 on ebay and dont know if I need a single pulley or if I am supposed to have a double pulley for it. Does it matter? It appears that a single would do it but I do plan on converting the generator over to an alternator in the near future and not sure if the double pulley would make it easier for mounting the new alt. Any suggestions would be helpful

item number 110317692626
and
item number 250330726675
P Ruszczyk

This is what the engine looks like right now with the waterpump off.


P Ruszczyk

From the state of that engine bay your going to be busy for a good while.
If you fit a high capacity pump then your need to change the pulley to a larger one to prevent cavitation, otherwise a standard pump & pulley will be fine.
Brad (Sprite IV 1380)

When I bought the car the new water pump was on the front seat with the gasket. There is no pulley anywhere in the car nor was there a radiator. I have purchased a radiator with the cowl but still need to find out what pulley the pump needs Moss and Vic Brit both show a double pulley but neither one sells them. Since I only have the 1 belt for the generator I wasnt sure if either would work or if I have to have the double pulley for the proper belt alignnment.
P Ruszczyk

I guess from what I am seeing on the sites so far everything says I should have the double . So I will go for that one.
P Ruszczyk

where does it say you want a double? the standard pulley is a single that has a belt linking the water pump, engine and dynamo. When you fit an alternator it too has only the single belt!
Bob (Robert) Midget Turbo

The double pulley is for the smog pump (which your car doesn't have doesn't need and you don't want)

Without a smog pump (which is good) whether you have a dynamo or alternator you need the same single pulley for the water pump.
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

I was going by the moss and vic brit catalogs that both show a 2 belt pulley used on the 1275 engines. I have found a double one for $5.00 plus shipping so I have gone with it. Also on the same topic are the bolts for the fan and pulley regular metric or is there a possibility that they are some other type of thread?
P Ruszczyk

P,

All threads on the 1275 are UNF/UNC plus a few BSP IIRC. IIRC the fan bolts are 1/4"UNF and the crank pulley 5/8"UNF?.
David Billington

I do wonder why people ask advice and then ignore all the advice they've received!

You have a double pulley with a redundant single section or are you going to fit a smog pump that will also be in the catalogue images?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

I think he was saying he found a double pulley cheap so he's just going to use it.
Trevor-Jessie

I only went with a double pulley because it was the cheapest one I could find on ebay. I really do appriciate the time and effort of others in answering my questions. I also try to follow the advice given as much as possible but I am trying to find the most economical way to get this midget running to see if I bought a pig in the poke or got a car that I will be able to restore to a nice sunday driver for a reasonable amount. After not working on cars much in the last 20 or 30 years I find that I really dont understand as much as I used to and have no clue what 1/4"UNF means. I know of SAE corse and fine and Metric but thats about it so will I have to order these bolts from the internet or is it something that my local hardware store might have? The midge is sitting in an unheated metal shed on a friend's farm about 55 miles from my house and about 15 miles from the nearest town so I am trying to gather as much together before heading out there as I can.
P Ruszczyk

P,

The Unified Thread Standard, containing UNF and UNC, are the threads commonly available in the US and have been around since about WWII. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread#History_of_standardization
David Billington

P (bad form to keep calling you a Letter you know!)

We all like to help out but take it from me, there are very few unsalvageable cars out there

but very few of those will ever repay the investment

andnow we know, keep coming and asking

I was quite like Daniel when I read your decision, but now we understand we usually try to answer as well as we can (no more cries of WTF! he he)

so:
looking at the picture, without delving deeply

brake pipes, you will need all new ones of those (Cunifer if you can get them or copper, for long life service)

Spanners and sockets, a set of imperial AFs

new hoses (ALL)

and lots of wire brushes

Now show us the rest of the car


(this was mine in 1990)

old but getting better


Bill

P

I'd rather give away a single groove pulley than see someone buy a 2 groove pulley. With my being in the UK and you in the USA there is a postage cost but I'd have expected the postage cost surface, small packet would be less than would you paid + shipping.

I'd have thought there are enthusiasts locally who could have found you a pulley - maybe you need to join a club.

Bill,

I've a mixture of copper and kunifer hose on my car but in the USA they have an issue with it and possibly even a US inspection issue so P might end up using steel (though some pipes are available in s/s).
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

P, hardware for your car should be available at the big box hardware stores like Home Depot, Lowes, Rona etc as well as any general hardware stores.

UNC and UNF means fine and coarse threads. When looking at the 2, the differences in them are obvious.

There shouldn't be any metric threads on your car but a number of aftermarket parts like door handles and licence plate lights now have metric threads on them. I found that out when I tried to fit those to my car.

As you couldn't/can't drive the car, it is already a pig in a poke as you put it. As has been stated, just about any car can be restored but you have to take into consideration the overall cost. If you want to do it piece by piece then that's one way to do it as opposed to a blank cheque approach. Either way, it can be expensive.

Have you considred getting the car towed to a more convenient location? Sure save you running back and forth and eventually you'll have to do it anyway.

With regard to brake pipe material, check out your state's requirements for material first. No point buying copper or copper alloy pipes and having to replace them. That will definately save you some time and money.

Keep on asking questions, lots of people on here who can help. Haven't been able to get a quote on the used windshield shipping yet.



Clive Reddin

Daniel, cheers

I can see why they have some issues with copper, since the flare split on my copper clutch pipe driving to Le Mans a few years ago but I cannot see why cunifer would be a no-no. Far better than steel pipes.


Ho-hum all makes work for testers...

P,

Mine took years and I spent very little on the build at any one time.

Some may say it looks like that too, but she is all mine and I love her

:-)

Bill

I'm sorry for the letter instead of a name. I set my profile up with just my initial in the beginning and have since changed it to my full name but I guess it didnt transfer to this site. The P stands for Paul. As for the car being so far away its where I have access to all the tools and equiptment I need for working on it which I lack at home. We are trying to get the shed set up with heat but havent gotten too far with it yet. As far as I am concerned if I can get it to run and move under its own power then I will be satisfied that I can restore it to drivable condition for an reasonable amount. The body is pretty solid with just the smallest bit of rust showing on the lower back fenders and the seats are perfect with only a small spot on 1 headrest that needs the seam restiched. The wireing seems to be ok as all the lights and turn signals work but the generator needs to be rebuilt or replaced with an alternator. I also think the heater fan needs work and the radio replaced. The brakes will have to be done as well as the clutch master and slave cylinder but if I can get it to start and run up on a trailer under its own power I will be quite happy with it. It will need the rims and dash and top replaced or at least repaired and a good paint job but I bought this to be a long term project. I'm just a bit anxious to see if it will at least try to run. I will be useing a gravity fed fuel tank to the carbs because I expect the tank to be less than clean and not very hopeful about the fuel pump being in working condition either. Plugs, points, rotor, oil, coolant and such will be replaced and the carbs given a quick once over before I seriously try to get it running of course.


P Ruszczyk

Hey Paul, not bad but do put some wind inside the wheels before you use it wont you

:-)


It does look basically fine but beware rust above the wheel arch, a very fine rust trap indeed

If you are logged in you can re-alter your profile to show what you want it to.

Bill

ok I think I have it straight now.
I thought the tires need to be underinflated when driveing in snow for better traction
;)



Paul Ruszczyk

Worked nicely Paul

you know what?

I think we can make a rather nice Midget from that one...

;-)
Bill

Bill,
Thanks I really do hope so too. Ok back to the bolts for the pulley I guess it would take 1/4'" UTF by 1/2" or 3/4" long and just grind down to the proper length so they are flush on the backside? Another question has been raised by my farmer friend. I am not sure if the bolts for the water pump are in the car. Would anyone happen to know what thread and length these would be off hand? I see that I really do need to invest in a cd with all the manuals and parts list asap as I'm sure its only gonna get worse as time goes on. Hopefully by next sunday I will be able to start putting the radiator and water pump in the car and get the bolt replaced on the starter.
Paul Ruszczyk

Moth water pump pulley bolts that have come across are 1/4" UNF but on odd occasions I have seen 1/4" UNC. I would go for the Unified National Fine (UNF).

Mark.
Mark T. Boldry

The water pump bolts are 5/16" UNF I think. I also think there may be two different lengths. Obviously, you will need to be sure they do not bottom out or have too long of a shoulder. Maybe someone with an engine torn apart can give you details.

Unfortunately, most manuals will not have this sort of details, but yes you might as well get a few manuals for other issues.
Trevor-Jessie

Have you got the spacer that fits between the pulley and the fan?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

I do not think it is needed with the double pulley.
Trevor-Jessie

Paul,
I just completed the same task on my 1275 and used a double row pully. The single row pully is thinner and allowed the fan to hit the timing chain cover vent. YOu can source the bolts from any hardware store. It is common fine thread 1/4 inch. I used one inch bolts but 3/4 inch will suffice. Just make sure that the end does not interfere with the water pump. I would take the water pump to the hardware store and match the threads there. Buy both lengths these grade 5 bolts are super cheap.
Pete


PJ Wilson

PJ,
I have the bolts to mount the fan and the pulley to the water pump now but still need to figure out the length of the 5/16"UNF bolts that mount the water pump to the engine block. Been too cold to mess with it lately but it is supposed to be in the 40s this weekend so hopefully I will be able to get something figured out then.
Paul Ruszczyk

This thread was discussed between 29/11/2008 and 12/12/2008

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.