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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Windscreen Chip

Hi All,

My sprite now has a lovely chip on the windscreen :(

Am I right in thinking it is a bolt either side inside the door shut and the 2 in the middle of the dash to remove the screen?

It will be a MOT failure and is rather unsightly, I am going to see if my insurance includes windscreen cover.

Rylan
R Williams

hi rylan.
2 bolts each side, and 2 in the middle. if i remember rightly 1 bolts in from door opening and the other from behind the dash. i had my dash out at the time so would think it a bit awkward with it in. someone will confirm if this is right im sure.

regards bob.
bob taylor

Don't rush into it Rylan. I've never done it but I understand it can be a real b*gg*r to replace the glass. What about a chip repair?
Graeme W

The easiest option is to buy a complete secondhand 'screen assembly, rather than replacing the glass.

They are relatively cheap and plentiful.
Dave O'Neill 2

chip repair can be very good leaving only a very small mark, usually covered by insurance but with an excess to pay and it is noted as a claim of sorts but won't affect your claims or premium unless you have lots of frequent screen claims

I had my my whole screen replaced a few years ago the rubbish rubber body seals cracked and curled up within a couple of years and it took me a couple of years to find and stop all the small leaks on the screen to frame seal

get the chip filled in - you can buy the kit to do it yourself but note it needs the sun I think to cure it properly so don't start it early evening as I did, even then seeing professional repairs later mine was no worse, it's a very easy job to do or I wouldn't be able to do it - cheaper than the excess too
Nigel Atkins

Unless you're very flexible and skinny armed, the dash will have to come out (just dropped down really). The upper of the 2 side screws is tucked well up there. 2 each side and the 2 in the middle.

Once out there's loads of small screws to remove and then the very nasty job of putting it all back together and getting the lower screen to body seal in. Have a very large table and lots of rubber safe lube on hand. The screws are frequently a complete mess and that leads to them being drilled out at the risk of the corner peices that hold the 4 windscreen parts together; which can often be rusted beyond serviceability anyway. They're expensive too!

I would not trust a windscreen company to do the job for you.

If you go down the route of buying another screen, you may still face the prospect of replacing the screen to body seal, which is very hard unless it can be slid in from one end...which boils down to screen dismantling again, with all the above risks/pitfalls. As well as this, the shims you have on both sides of the pillars as they sit against the a posts will need adjusting and the dashboard will still have to be removed.

If you can, as said by the others, get the chip treated. It's much much much easier!
Roadwarrior

I've removed the screen from a race midget, fitted with a full roll cage, without removing the dashboard.

Remove the two screws in the lower corners and undo the supports in the middle of the dash. That should give you enough room to get a socket wrench on the bolts/screws.
Dave O'Neill 2

Doesn't need the dash out if you do as Dave describes.
2nd hand screens complete may look OK, but likely to have 30+ years worth of fine scratches and stone scuffs which will scatter the light horribly on a wet winter's night.

If the screen needs replacing, buy a new glass, refit to your frame and reinstall. You will be pleased with the nice bright clear screen and its nothing like as hard as the doomsayers make out.
Guy Weller

Well its turns out my insurance includes windscreen cover.

Autoglass are going to fit a new screen glass for around £60. I was surprised that they would be able to do my sprite.

I did consider a 2nd hand screen but had similar thoughts as guy as to the quality
R Williams

it's that bad it can't be repaired then

I'd be surprised but delighted for you if you don't need a tube of non-setting 'mastic' for windscreen seals if the screen is changed
Nigel Atkins

"Autoglass are going to fit a new screen glass for around £60. I was surprised that they would be able to do my sprite."

I think Autoglass may be more surprised, when the bloke turns up and can't just slip out the old screen and slip in the new one. Watch him closely to make sure he does it properly.

Are you sure your screen would have failed the mot?
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/windscreen-vision-safety.html

"Damage of up to 40mm across can sometimes be repaired, depending on where in the screen it is situated. If the damage is right in front of the driver - in the area known as the 'A zone' - only damage up to 10mm can be repaired. This is slightly less than the size of a 5 pence coin."

The MOT
Depending on where it is located, some windscreen damage will result in an MOT failure if not attended to. The screen is divided into two areas for the purposes of the MOT.

Immediately In front of the driver (The 'A-zone' – a 290mm wide band centered on the steering column and bounded top and bottom by the wiper swept area) – damage larger than 10mm across will normally result in a failure.

Elsewhere on the windscreen – damage larger than 40mm across will normally result in failure.




Lawrence Slater

MGOC want £51 for the glass! There surely can be no way AutoGlass are going to do that for £60!
Don't go there - get it repaired!
Graeme W

£60 is probably the excess.

Repairs are normally FOC - no excess.
Dave O'Neill 2

Get Autoglass to check if it can be repaired. If they repair it and it later cracks in the same place they will then replace the screen free of charge.

Trev
Trevor Mason

Laminate or toughened?
Lawrence Slater

Dave: you're right! Forgotten the insurance claim. Wonder if they included an "overnight"?
Graeme W

It's a laminated screen and is about 1.5 inches below the header rail on the drivers side.

Autoglass are going to change the screen on Sunday morning. The chip at the front of the screen is small, but it has spread below the chip to the size of a 5p piece. there is also 2 5mm cracks running from the spread bit.

I have ordered a complete set of rubbers for the screen, I will be watching the chap like a hawk
R Williams

We'll all be following closely to see how well it's done. I'd be kind of surprised if he's done one before, so it'll be interesting to see how long it takes.

Maybe they know some way to remove the old screen and fit new glass, without taking the frame apart. That would be a useful trick to learn.
Lawrence Slater

Not that apparent until you dismantle, but the frame tapers in a lot towards the top. I very much doubt that it is possible to replace the glass in the frame without dismantling it. And therefore also without removing the frame from the car. But it will be interesting to hear how the professional does it.
Guy Weller

i bet when he sees what hes up against he says it needs to go to their workshop to be done, thats what they done to one of my mgs and they had it 3 days, and must admit i wouldnt have one done again unless it was a garage that specializes in that particular job and knew what they were doing.

regards bob.
bob taylor

Yup yup Guy. I think the autoglass bloke is in for a long day. :).

Agreed bob. Hope you agree Rylan.
Lawrence Slater

It took me about 2 hours to fit a new glass into the rubber seal and frame. I used ratchet straps to apply a constant steady pressure to pull the frame sides in onto the glass, literally "ratcheting up the pressure" every 15 minutes or so. It then probably took almost as long to refit to the car, using my patented (not) pull down system with the ratchet straps again.

I reused the old rubber seals for the reasons that Nigel will relate regarding poor quality, short lifespan repro rubber. The old ones were in decent condition and after rubbing in vaseline and brake fluid to clean and soften the rubber they sealed perfectly with no additional mastic or silicone needed.
Guy Weller

come on rylan, has he been yet.???
bob taylor

They are probably still establishing overnight camp, Bob! Or alternatively last heard saying, "Oh s**t!" (probably as they drove off).
Come on Rylan, prove us all wrong. And remember, you don't need windscreen glass if you drive in reverse!
Just don't press the screenwash!
Graeme W

He turned up this morning.

He couldn't change it, he had no idea.

It will have to go into the workshop where there are guys who have changed a spridget screen before? (read the Haynes manual probably!)

Next Sunday is the day of reckoning :)
R Williams

"He couldn't change it, he had no idea."

Why are none of us surprised?!

Good luck next Sunday....
Steve Clark

rylan, dont take it because trust me they wont know either.they will just put all their heads together and assume how its done. when they break all the screws that dont come out easy they will be on your back for the price of the parts, possibly new frame. either find someone who knows or get a good s/hand frame and screen,you can pick one up very cheap, i paid a tenner for mine, only way to go.

bob.
bob taylor

...or, if they do manage to get the frame back together, they probably won't realise that it could need re-shimmming and then snap the lugs off when they tighten the bolts.
Dave O'Neill 2

Or they will muddle up the frame screws, putting the long ones where the short ones should go. And then 2 months later the glass will crack where a long screw has been chattering against the glass behind the rubber. No end of possibilities!
Guy Weller

Rylan: have you spoken to Alan? There must be a fountain of knowledge somewhere in Kent Masc which can be harnessed to help you do it. The windscreen and associated bits is not going to be significantly more than Autoglass were going to charge you anyway. Or get it repaired (although didn't you say it was cracking from the chip?).

I really wouldn't let Autoglass anywhere near it! Presumably if their were a specialist company who could do it, your insurers wouldn't play ball.
Graeme W

Sorry "there" not "their" (and "was" not "were"? Not sure on that one).
Graeme W

Rylan I have a complete screen i took from a 1500 car a while ago my MCD got the better of me and I brought the car because it was junk and cheap. I can have a look at it tomorrow for chips and the like and if your interested you can have it. I am only in farnborough kent.
Dave

Although it would be quite an interesting read finding out how they got on replacing it.
D Pratt

Rylan,
ring your insurers and talk to them, explain the situation, and talk to the workshop manager as I'm sure he'll want to get out of fitting it if he doesn't have a tame guy who knows what he's doing to sub-contract out to

despite what some might what you to believe not all insurers are out there to con you, most will want to help you

you paid for insurance on your particular make and model of car so that's what you want covered with the correct parts and installation procedure - but do check the policy (handbook :) ) as they may be an upper limit to the amount you're covered for on the windscreen and other limitations if it's not a 'classic' policy

if you just sit there with your thumb up your bum all you'll end up with is a sorry mess
Nigel Atkins

why is it that insurers make you go to autoglass or the likes. they must know that these companys are not experienced is these type of cars,and im sure there are a lot more that are harder than a midget. they done my bgt. after 3 days still could not get the trim in. they phoned me in the end and said i would have to do it which i did.
is it all down to cost. i suppose they know you will work that out yourself and take it to an expert where you have to pay for the job and not them.
bob.
bob taylor

So what's happening Rylan?

Nigel's advice on this is good. Although it pains me to say it. LOL. ;).
Lawrence Slater

I replaced the windscreen last year. It is do able, but allow time for a complete frame strip down and rebuild, including drilling out corroded set screws, and don't drop the glass like I did. The rubber seal will probably be the wrong size but can be cut and super glued to fit.
Assemble the new glass into the frame on a bed. You may need straps to pull it together but mine went in by pushing. Check the alignment to all the set screws. I think I made 2 L sections ( header and side, bottom rail and side) if it looks wrong do it again.
I also replaced the windscreen to body seal and post seals, used the turn buckle system devised by others.
While you have the screen loose check the closing of the doors and quarter light to screen pillar clearance, adjust the windscreen shims if required.

I wasn't pressed for time so took my time over it. About 5 days. (20 hrs) ish. But by then I had had a load of practice fitting dash/ windscreen and getting all the bit together. You can get stainless set screws online.

Good luck
Mike
M Myers

UPDATE:

I have cancelled the autoglass appointment, my gut feeling was not good.

I have spoken to the insurance company and can get a new one fitted at a garage of my choice for a slightly higher premium.

All I will need to do is to pay the excess and send the invoice in to the insurance company.

I have purchased all new windscreen seals and a new stainless screw set for the frame.

I think I will be happier having it done in a garage of my choice rather than having it done by autoglass.

On a different note, I am once again facing the prospect of selling the Sprite due to a medical issue with my father. I will keep you all informed! Hope you are all well

Rylan
R Williams

Sorry to hear of your fathers ill health

If your serious about selling, and the health issue of your father, id probably pass on this repair and sell as is...you have bigger fish to deal with

Id definatly rescind the insurance claim and pay pay for this your self and save the claim for when you really need it...other wise this can follow you for several years to.come and be an issue when a claim is really needed


Id think you can still get a complete window in frame at a desent price off ebay and do it yourself

Good luck

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Thanks Prop,

At the moment I do not need to sell it, it depends how things go in the next few months with my father.

It also depends on my moving out situation, you do make a good point on the insurance, I did ask the same question but apparently it will not cause me any issues?

Rylan


R Williams

Sorry to hear that news Rylan. Hope it resolves in a good way.

I think even if you are selling you ought to get the screen done. Potential purchasers are likely to make a real issue of it otherwise.
Graeme W

Prop, windscreen claims do not affect your 'no claims bonus' in the UK. You just have to pay an excess on any glass replacements.
Dave O'Neill 2

If thats your car in the photo... id have to re-side with graeme....but I would not go the rebuild direction

Id go to ebay or a local friend and buy the entire assembly...that way it just 4 bolts 2 shims, and a 2 corner post seals, anew long seal across the bottom and old out, new in 1/2 hour and your done

It might cost a few extra dollars for a nice window and frame, but in the end, I think the savings in time, and aggervation will be worth loosing/sacraficing a few meals at mcDonalds for

Having gone this direction my self several years ago... rebuilding the window, id spent the extra $75 and bought the best assembled window with frame on ebay and been done with it

Buying just the glass only then the hassle of finding someone to assemble it for me even thou they held there $100 quote it want much if any savings in the end

Just my opinion

As to submitting a claim... I can only speak for this side of the pond... here its not about the cost of fullfilling a claim, it how many claims over a period of time...so little things like scratches and chips, I deal with my self ...

the surprised behemoth deer staring at my headlights as he became sundays bbq dinner ... ill let the insurance company pay for
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Sure... if no issue of conserning glass replacement... then by all means, file that claim, ....and depends on the company and coverage if glass is a penalty or not... but most of the time itsa claim and claims are not aappreciated by insurance companys and will want to get even anyway they can...higher premiums or a paid assassin... they want there blood vengance

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Dave: Although it doesn't directly affect your no claims bonus, I'm not so sure that the insurers don't see this as a "claim" and subsequently load the premium.
It's the same attitude as "protected no claims bonus". The premium still goes up although the bonus appears to remain the same.
Essentially if they pay out one year, you do the next.
Graeme W

as I put in another thread it is definitely a claim - whether it makes any difference to your premium is a different matter, normally it won't


Rylan,
sorry to hear about your potential situation

I know you bought the rubbers already but if you can reuse the existing rubbers I'd be very tempted to do so - I had a new screen to body rubber fitted, it was cracking at the edges and turning up within two years and I can't remember how long it took for the little leaks on the windscreen glass to frame to appear and get resolved
Nigel Atkins

A big AMEN X2 to nigel

The only way I have kept rubber from turning invisable is to keep the car in the shop out of the rain

I had forgotten that new rubber parishes quick

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

This thread was discussed between 07/07/2014 and 18/07/2014

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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