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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Wire Wheel Front Hub Bearings Replacement

Hi,

So I need some help and what better place to start than here!

Since finishing my chassis after 7.5 years! I am now moving on to restoring the suspension and steering.

Both bearings on the front hub are making a horrendous grinding noise so need placing.

Managed to dismantle the whole front assembly without too much trouble and got to the point where I have removed the inner bearing and the spacer from the hub. The outer bearing was proving more difficult.

After some time and force with a BBH the outer bearing came out but without its outer case as you can see from the photo.

Looking at the new ones on Moss they seem to have a outer casing to hold the ball bearings in place and I think that is stuck inside the hub still.

Can someone tell me if I am correct or your are more than welcome to say that I have made a mistake that has cost me about £80 for a new hub.

If I am correct if the outer case is stuck inside has anyone got any ideas how to get it out, other than more heat, more penetrating fluid and further hitting with a BBH and screwdriver at tricky angle to avoid marking the spacer housing.

All of the videos online show the other type of hub for steel wheels which I thought should be similar in theory.

Many thanks

James







James Paul

Yes the outer race is still in the hub. The wire wheel hub is longer than the steel wheel one which makes it more tricky but there should be little 'cut outs' as you have shown on the inner end of the hub to get a drift into and knock the race out. Expanding the hub with a bit of heat may also help. Get the best quality face adjusted bearings as the cheaper ones can cause run out problems with the disc. MGOC sell them for £44.95 each side
Bob Beaumont

I’ve never needed to use heat, or a particularly big hammer. But a good drift and careful tapping, first one side, then the other, alternately. That should get it moving.

As Bob says, those semi-circular cut-outs are where you put the drift.
Dave O'Neill 2

Thanks for both for your comments.

So i take it that the race is separated from the part where you put the drift.

When I hit that out I will have two parts?

I can’t see that part in the catalogue.

Thanks
James Paul

Use PlusGas and patience rather than heat.

Attached is a pdf of bearing parts and a photo of drift pockets but yours will be longer.

Do buy the Meditech bearing kit from MGOC Spares, part number GHK1142Q - the Q on the end is very important.

"Wheel Bearing Kit - factory spec midget GHK1142Q
SKF Reliable factory spec Front wheel bearings.
Must be used in conjunction with the original 1.5" bearing spacer - Price: 44.95

Factory spec bearing giving original longevity exceeding that of reproduction non faced adjusted bearings.Kit comprises of one inner and outer bearing plus oil seal; should be fitted in conjunction with the original 1.5" bearing spacer."

Keep your 1.5" spacer and hub together as a pair in case the spacer has been altered.

Don't follow the MGExp article on this subject as it's not entirely correct. I have lots of info on this from 'he who can't be named' and other posters on here.



Nigel Atkins

The cut-out marked in green is for knocking out the inner bearing, which is already out. There is another one further down for knocking out the outer race (yellow) of the outer bearing.

The spacer is part of the hub and doesn't come out. It is the same depth as the loose spacer which sits between the inner races.

ETA: Nigel beat me to it, with a nice clear photo.


Dave O'Neill 2

ETA: Dave, you can guess who gave me that photo.

James think of there being two spacers, one is (in) the hub and the second is the 1.5" cone-ish spacer you already have out in your first photo.

Keep the outer races of your current bearing to use as drifts to help fit your new bearings.

Attached PDF of the Meditech bearings and photo of the important added machined 2mm radius to the standard SKF bearing, that's what much of the extra cost and fitting is about.

MGOC Spares took delivery of the final 100 Meditech sets last year, it'd be interesting to know how many they still have considering the hundreds and thousands they sell of the cheaper sets.




Nigel Atkins

Ok I think I’ve got it!

Only thing is I can’t see the second cut out to remove the outer race, but I’ll have another look tomorrow.

Thanks very much!

James
James Paul

Narrow torch, narrow drift.

Or take a (flash) photo of it to guide you (digital cameras often are better for this than phones).
Nigel Atkins

James,

It should be there diametrically opposite the one you can see but may be obscured by grease.
David Billington

When you're fitting the new bearings--
You don't 'have' to do this but it makes life easy

Leave your bearings in the freezer overnight and leave your hub out in the sun (For England you might be best to sit it in some hot water for a few minuites ha ha) then you will find the bearings will tap in really easily
After you have punched your old bearings out and cleaned the hub up ,just check the deges of that little cutout to make sure you haven't burred the edge which will stop the new bearing seating correctly
William Revit

Hi,

Thanks again for all your feedback.

Got the outer race out this morning thankfully. Was certainly well stuck in there. Heat and penetrating fluid helped overnight I think.

There are definitely no second cut outs for the outer bearing as shown in Nigel's photo.

However there looks to be damage to the spacer in the hub on both sides.

What do you think? Surely there shouldn't be a indent for the ball bearings as shown in the first photo?

This was the one that was making the most grinding noise.

I have also noticed someone in the past has used a grinder to remove the hub bolts and cut a couple of grooves out of the hub which will slightly affect the balance.

I think I'll need a new set.

thanks

James






James Paul

What on earth?! Has someone put the bearings in the wrong way round and radged the nut up three heaves tight I wonder?

I can't quite tell what I am looking at.
Malcolm

Same here Malcolm
It looks like the carrier for the balls,
the pic is a bit close to work out what the rest is about
William Revit

Looks like the bearing was put in backwards and the inner with balls has started to migrate into the hub. Nasty.
Rob
MG Moneypit

Am I glad Willy, Rob and Malc posted before me as those were my thoughts when I saw the photo but wouldn't know if they'd be correct.

Always gets me how much effort some will put into doing the job wrong, or probably lack of correct effort.

If you buy a new w/w hub (are they any good nowadays?) you might want to buy a new 1.5" if your current one measures much under (or over) the 1.5", see attached PDF.

If you get a good s/h one and it comes with the original bearings and cone-ish spacer all the better. You could still change its bearings with the Meditech ones if you wanted if you're doing both sides.

With a good penetrating/releasing agent like PlusGas (don't bother with ordinary WD40) don't bother with heat just use time to soak in, as long as possible each time (patience) - but that's assuming the parts are fitted about right!
Nigel Atkins

Hi,

Having never driven this car or know anything about it I cannot say what has happened to it. But there was no split pin in the end bolt and there isn't one on the left hand hub either. The failed bearing was so loud when turned that something clearly has failed or been not assembled correctly.

Shouldn't really be surprised with this car.

The bearing came out of the wrong end of the hub without the race attached and I had to put it back to drift it out of the correct end of the hub.

I've attached the old one that I've put back together to show the distortion.

I'll feel happier with all new parts in place as I have spent too long on the car already trying to make it as good as I can, so no point trying to save money on such an important part.

Thanks again

James







James Paul

James,
see my previous post if you haven't already.

Are there any numbers on the bearing you took out?

What's the photo of the other (new) bearing?
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel,

Just read you last post, thanks for the advise.

Code on the bearing very warn, but I think it says

DHJT19

Also says Thrust and England

Yes the other bearing is Moss’s replacement.
James Paul

Critical thing is that the smaller inner bearing has the correct 2mm radiused inside edge so that it fits correctly onto the filleted root of the stub axle. Not all bearings have this and that leads to alignment problems later on.
GuyW

That explains why it was so hard to drift out. The fact it was in the wrong way means you only had a very thin face to hit and it would have been below the hub spacer.

Trev
T Mason

James,
I had to double-check because of the number you put up that the bearing sets were the same for wire wheel as steel wheel, they are, see guess what.

My advice given strongly to you is send back the bearings set(s) you got from Moss and buy the Meditech sets from MGOC Spare whilst they're still available.

Unless you get lucky, and you might, there's a good chance you might be changing the bearings you got from Moss after relatively quite a short time or mileage. Not the fault of the bearings themselves but their application with these hubs to stub axles.

I can look up how long the non-original type bearings lasted in my car if you want, a reasonable time compared to some but the originals lasted decades.
Nigel Atkins

James

The original bearings were manufactured in England by RHP or R&M. The morris minor, A35, A40 and Riley 1.5 all use the same bearings. The original numbers are inner 34 (or 39) LJT25. the outer is 3 (or 11) mjt17. they are fitted with the closed end of the bearings facing inwards. The original bearings have the word 'thrust' on them and they should face each other

Looks like the outer bearing was fitted the wrong way round. The word 'thrust' should face towards the middle of the hub. Could the number be 11 mjt17? the word england suggests it was the correct bearing. There may also be the letters RHP or R&M.
Bob Beaumont

others have beaten me to it!
Bob Beaumont

Hi,

Nigel - haven't ordered anything from Moss. Was just comparing new to old for reference.

Here's the best picture I can get of the codes.

Thanks for all your help!

Kind regards

James


James Paul

I'll stick my neck out and say that looks to be the wrong bearing.

Try this, (one of the possible) correct bearings, I hope the photo is big enough to see numbers.

But just look at that pdf I posted last.



Nigel Atkins

That could say 3MJT17 if you squint a bit? That would be correct for the outer bearing.
Malcolm

Hi,

I agree that they seem to be the original bearings and the correct ones. I've looked again and the first number could be 3, So 3MJ T17. The inner bearing has the correct coding as well.

Certainly we can now see that it was installed the wrong way round and over time that has forced the inner bearing to come away from the race and cause the indents into the hub spacer.

Either way the whole lot has had it and needs replacing. Not really what I wanted to find out, but as least I can try and source a new set that will last many years to come.

Thanks very much for all your excellent advise.

James
James Paul

One way to remove the outer race if troublesome is to run a bead of weld around the inside which when it contracts should make the race fall out.
David Billington

Yeap that's what happens when I stick my neck out. I read it same as you as DM(or H)JT19 but I didn't check to see if such a thing exist, apologies.

The previous bearings don't really matter now they're out, probably best to check the stub axle spindles just in case.

I lifted the photo in attached pdf and altered it for fitting diagram to save the confusion on other diagrams, as I put previously there's some errors on the internet on this subject.


Nigel Atkins

Nigel that drawing is wrongly labelled.
It says "Written faces to spacer" but then arrows the outer race written faces that contact the hub lips, not the spacer.
The drawing is correct but that line/ label should say something like" Written (thrust) faces firmly seated against the step in the hub"
Some bearings do have the word "thrust" on the inner race, in which case that face goes away from the spacer. The spacer should never be in contact with a side of a bearing with the word thrust on it.
GuyW

Thanks Guy, I'll have to look into this I'm not sure what the original intention was then perhaps I saved or deleted the wrong image, I only looked at the file name.

That's two balls-up on this thread alone, I certainly prove you can't trust internet info James!
Nigel Atkins

Nigel. it's not far wrong, but if the labelling is read verbatim, then it could be misleading. Especially if the bearings obtained are marked on their inner races which could result in them being installed the wrong way round.

The other thing worth paying attention to is the surface of the stub axle where the oil seal lip runs. These can sometimes develop deep grooves and ridges so that a new seal doesn't - seal! They can be repaired with a speedisleve.
GuyW

ETA: as usual I was still typing whilst another post went up.

Found it, it's not the general diagram but the, simplified, one relating to original bearings that I put a photo up of earlier with the writing on the outer race on the thrust side.

It was a simple aid-memoire for my use and not the one I intended to keep I must have saved the altered version without making it a new file thus losing the original. I do that sometimes with photos, forgetting I've not saved the original and thinking I'm working on the amended new photo/file. Lack of discipline.

I don't like clutter on the computer and even though it's only hard drive space and I have loads and loads of free space available I tend to delete most and save little.

I must admit I've forgotten how much I've deleted out of the 'fwb' folder but it was getting as long as the threads on the subject even with the sub-folders.

I also altered Norm's drawing but there was still so much text on it for a photo that I deleted it, this was before Mike put up the PDF facility, it'd be fine now but still very congested visually and with too much text and information.



Nigel Atkins

James,
just to be clear, the attached pdf relates to when using those particular bearings in the attached photo.

Sorry about the confusion, par for the course with me I'm afraid.

The pdf *might* - if there's no other writing on them - also apply to the Meditech (SKF) bearings, as Guy rightly points out it depends on if there's writing and where it is.



Nigel Atkins

Looks like I might have remembered correctly for once, these images show writing on the outer races (and other side(s) no writing).






Nigel Atkins

Nigel, I think you have misunderstood what I was saying about your pdf. Read my message again. The drawing is correct but the label says that the outer race side with the lettering is facing the spacer, and the arrows then point to the hub. The lettering does not go against the spacer. It goes against the step in the hub.

Secondly, some bearings - not these- also mark the relevant face of the inner race. In these instances the lettering on the inner race would face away from the spacer.
GuyW

Guy,
we always run on seperate tracks.

I accept it's by no means the best illustration and over simplified but it does relate here for those original bearings in the photo and the Meditech and I have stipulated that. No it doesn't cover all bearings which you rightly point out could have writing in other places or none at all.

You could say what about the resin ones in the other pdf, I'd have to open a box and packet to confirm those as I only *think* they also apply and we all know my memory isn't the best. And you'd have me on the Moprod ones as I can't remember and don't have any.

I'm not sure what screen you're using to look at that diagram but on mine the lines go to the yellow of the bearings rather than light blue of the hub but it isn't very distinct, I should have repurposed that bit but as I put it was really just a quick aid-memoir originally used here in error. I'd now delete those pdfs from the posts if I could. The spacer I meant was the cone-ish one that is separate and can be withdrawn - but wouldn't it also be correct for the hub spacer, isn't that also the space between the hub shelves?
Nigel Atkins

Different tracks maybe, Nigel, but at least on this occasion they are parallel and going the same direction!
I am still not sure I have got my point over to you, but it doesn't matter. I wouldn't delete those pdf drawings. They are fine and give a good image of what the hub looks like internally and how the parts all relate. Its a useful drawing. I've seen it before and the discussion that went with it but can't now quite recall the originator's name. He used to post on here quite regularly from over in the 'land of the free'. Not so much these days
GuyW

The name on the drawing is Smith, I've not seen him post here in my time I don't think, or I've forgot.

The colours are a bit much for me but it is useful, and was in a series IIRC of diagrams, very useful but not quite what I wanted/needed.

At the time I followed a lot of links to get to Mr. Smith's info via something Norm put up but on a quick look I can't find it now.

My concern was that I'd put something 'the opposite way round' as I often do and thought I'd done very recently with an E-clip drawing until DaveO pointed out it was correct before I altered it.

As you know with the correct, and well made, parts the job to replace is quite straightforward and very long lasting but otherwise and it can get a bit involved and not very long lasting.
Nigel Atkins

"Steve" is on the Midget Register.

https://www.midgetregister.com/forums/technical/front-wheel-bearings/
anamnesis

It was Norman Kerr that I was thinking of, from "the other side". I think they were his drawings
GuyW

Tom Smith Smithtr6.com shown on one of the drawings.

http://smithtr6.com/bearings.htm
anamnesis

ETA: I type too slow and in checking links the computer updated and had screen flashing on and off - the Master remains!

Yes Norm's drawing is the over congested ones I referred to Mr Smith helped/collaborated with Norm.

anam,
wow, I'm teaching the master now, no longer grasshopper (well perhaps, and only for a few seconds). I've just found, it's not 'stevec' it's Tom Smith, the clue was in plain sight.

And here it all is, see - http://smithtr6.com/bearings.htm
Nigel Atkins

James,
I don't know if this still applies as it's from Norm's 2010 article and it might refer to USA rather than here but we certainly get incorrect parts here.

See photo it's from Norm's article (with the errors in), see 'Attachment 3 - Hub Radius Issue' on this page - http://www.mgexp.com/article/mg-midget-and-sprite-front-wheel-bearings.271



Nigel Atkins

Just tossing this in for fun, I am going to whisper it as I'm sure someone will disapprove...

I use a 6303 ("standard" deep groove ball bearing) for the outer bearing.

I did the sums at the time of repalcement and decided they were up to the job and several hill climbs and track days are the empirical evidence of this.

Less than £4 each and solve the face adjusted part of the FWB problem.

The inner bearing was a "proper" spec item. With the 2mm radius etc. etc.

Malc.
Malcolm

Nigel.
A mere few minutes. 😁.

Take the pebble from my hands.

The thorn defends the rose. It harms only those who would steal the blossom from the plant.

You are ready. 😇
anamnesis

It's a conversation that resurfaces at pretty regular intervals as we all know. I see the copyright on those pages of Tom Smith is from 2010 and 2009 and he has owned a Midget since 2009. I guess the gaudy coloured drawings are his then if he add his copyright label, though Norman's input on the debate about whether the spacer should be retained goes much further back. I can recall it coming up on the autos.team net site pre BBS, in the mid 1990's Plus of course this world of Spridgets and fwb discussions existed long before t'internet! At least these pages acknowledge such earlier contributions 😀
GuyW

And of course it was never a problem, until the discontinued rhp bearings became difficult to source, leading to deliberate or mistaken substitution.

Just for fun 😁

On the face of it - pun intended - , a deep groove bearing will pose no problem as long as there is no hub slop.

However, how long will it last?

https://www.gmnbt.com/difference-between-deep-groove-and-angular-contact-ball-bearings/
anamnesis

ETA: I'm even slower at typing now as I've pricked my finger!
So as usual others have posted whilst I was still typing.

I feel a 100 coming on, at least!

Malc,
great, in fact fantastic - but what is the £4 "inner bearing was a "proper" spec item. With the 2mm radius etc. etc" that you used?

I know at least one person that would moan at £8 for the bearings (seal still required).

It was worked out, I think by 'he who can not be named' but possibly others too, I don't know, that some with have the (I forget proper description now) arm fillet that will take the 1mm radius bearing very successfully which is why some have no problem whilst others do (me of course). Did you measure the radius on your arm-thingy that sticks out from the stub axle?

I really couldn't think of the right words again, Malc you're not just shooting for a 500 thread(?). :)

Nigel Atkins

Nigel, sorry, I meant that the outers (6303) are £4 each. The inners I paid about £25 IIRC. At the time the outers were a similar price.

The stub axle radius is 2mm, the inner bearing radius was 2mm so matched up as they should.

Or were you being sarcastic about the £4 inner bearing? :-)
Malcolm

Nigel, the £4 refers to the outer bearing in Malc's post. That's what it says.
GuyW

Guy,
just read your post, I'd no idea the problem or issues or discussions went so far back.

I'd guess that the original bearing going back to Austin days were bought by whoever was the car manufacturer as time progress in very large quantities at very low prices (I think Rob? might have suggested so way back). But once the vehicles were well out of product and not supported by the car manufacturer and as has been said the RHP bearing become scarce the problems, issues and discussions became more prevalent.

Like any average owner I used to think the parts are easily available for sale so once fitted that's it, but I've discovered this "ain't necessarily so", "many, many, times, many times".

And thanks, once again I misread that part of £4 each, but doesn't that still leave the awkward part of the inner bearing. - He's going for the 500!
Nigel Atkins

Theres your shopping list to do both sides for £20.

It would work if you were totally stranded and desperate, or running wire wheels because you can't corner quickly on them anyway ;-)

(This is not serious, DO NOT DO THIS! I am not taking responsibility for anyone injuring themselves if they do).

Malc.


Malcolm

ETA: you're definitely going for the 100, Prop would be proud. :)

Malc,
my pricked finger can't keep up, thanks, no I wasn't being sarcastic (wot eva that is), no I really wasn't, just misread your post.

I can't remember now but £25 could have been a god price, certainly compared to some of the prices being asked.
Nigel Atkins

Circling back to the original post from James...

The above £20 setup is a bodge for sure, but would be better than putting the proper bearings in the wrong way round, as the previous owener of James' car did :-D
Malcolm

Well if you want some CONCRETE thoughts on fwb's from 2010, then you'll love reading this. 😆

http://www.mg-cars.net/mg-midget-sprite-technical-bbs/wheel-bearings-article-finally-finished-2010120301554416771.htm

Starring Frm, Norm, Tom Smith, and other favourites too. :).
anamnesis

Bit of a short thread, is it comprehensive enough(?). :)

I'll read that later, I hope it won't hurt. :)
Nigel Atkins

Well if you do like that you'll love this from 2007. 😉

https://mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=97&subjectar=97&thread=2007081215080920022

As said below, plenty of discussion going on quite a while ago.
anamnesis

I have a spare set of original RHP bearings if needed.
Bob Beaumont

I ended up with the same conclusion as that interesting thread, the cone-ish spacer has to match the hub for effective longevity of the installation.
Nigel Atkins

You could just buy the cheap bearings and put a radius on the inner bearing by careful use of a small grinding wheel. It doesn’t need to be super accurate, just enough to clear the root radius. You must cover the bearing with masking tape to stop getting grit in though.

Anyone tried this?
Chris Madge

Chris, it's not just the radius that's different, you need the face adjustment as well.

Trev
T Mason

Some non face adjusted bearings would work. It is just the luck of the draw. Unpredictable.
GuyW

Chris,
your suggestion has been made in the past, I can't remember if it was done or just suggested, there are a few threads on the subject if you want to check the Archives. :hehehe:

The bearing with the 1mm radius will work on some cars as IIRC the fillet is 1-2mm and the accuracy of a bearing with 1mm could mean it's over that anyway, hence some owners don't know what the all fuss is about and others are less lucky, hence my learning of the subject.

Nigel Atkins

I recall someone explaining that if you attempt to grind a 2mm radius in an assembled bearing, it will make your balls chatter. Enough to put me off trying it!
GuyW

James

What happened to your blog as I was looking for pics and info on your hardtop that looks like a Pride and Clark Dan Dare with no external front clips but is without the roof flute, but was made by someone else (I think I have seen one for sale but wanted to check what it was).

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Hi Mike,

I sold it to Malcolm a few years ago. Not sure if he still has it.

I've no real idea what type it is, Kim Dear sold it to me with the car.

Here's my blog with a few more photos of it:

https://www.mgmidgetrestoration.com/2012/11/the-arrival.html









James Paul

I thought that looked familiar!

Yep, still got it. I fixed some of the cracks, then started sanding it back but got bored and it keeps ending up as a "next month" job!

Nice blog :-)

Malc.
Malcolm

I modified my wire wheel front hubs and fitted taper roller bearings back in 1987. Done about 60,000 miles since and they still run true !.

I recall I machined around 0.040" off each bearing land to compensate for the extra width of the taper bearings. Left out the spacer as no longer required.

Saved a LOT of money with the cost of the tapers verses the face loaded ball races, and a lot of time to shim in the balls.

Cheers

Tony
The Classic Workshop
Black Mountain
Australia
A L SLATTERY

Tony,
The spacer must be fitted it adds strength to the stub axle, build it like a MGB with the spacer and shims to get the correct end float. You stand the chance of breaking a stub axle with no spacer. I have taper roller bearings in my Midget used shims to get the end float correct.
When I first did it left the spacer out then read it was an integral part of the hub giving strength to the stub, so took it apart and started again.

Mike
M J Pearson

Mike,
A piece of cast iron in compression adds no strength worth noting to a forged steel stub axle. My car has done 60,000+ miles and a fair bit of track work in 35 odd years and the stub axles are fine and never been replaced.

I once asked a mechanical engineer about the "added strength" of the spacer. He laughed, and laughed and laughed......

Cheers

Tony
The Classic Workshop

A L SLATTERY

Mike,
the spacer is for the original type bearings rather than if swapping to the taper roller bearings.

And don't believe everything you read in an MGExp article, I made that mistake before.
Nigel Atkins

Why do MGBs use spacers and shims?
Dave O'Neill 2

James and Malc

Re-my earlier thread drift about an old hardtop, my apologies I was mixing up my Mr Pauls, I was asking about Dan, not James, Paul's hardtop, on his Sebring Sprite (not the yellow DHMC hardtop, but the other own shown in: http://sebringsprite.blogspot.com/2013/11/catching-up.html)

Cheers
Mike

M Wood

Hi,

Sorry more help required!

I have fitted new bearings to the new hub and mounted everything on to the hub.

Having tightened the main nut to the correct torque it turns really smoothly.

However I can wiggle the end of the hub in all vertical directions, up, down, left and right. But not horizontally in and out. It seems the bearings have movement in them.

Checking the other new bearings they all also have similar play in them.

I’d thought that when you tighten it all up there wouldn’t be any movement at all.

Has anyone got any pointers please?

Thanks

James
James Paul

For what it's worth, the first thing that comes to mind is do you have each bearing oriented correctly? I'm sure others will have better suggestions.
Martin

What bearings did you use? Meditech ones or other brand which may not have the correct radius or face adjustment.
David Billington

Sounds like the bearings are not face adjusted ones. When you tighten up the hub nut the spacer is coming up tight against the inner races before the bearing is fully seated. Either that or is it possible that you fitted either bearing the wrong way round?

OR they are all like that sir. (depends how much movement you can detect, there will always be a little)
GuyW

Hi,
Bought these from Moss.
Fitted them the right way round, the thicker race lip facing inwards towards the inner spacer.

The movement is small, the same as the movement in the bearing that hasn’t been fitted.


James Paul

Sorry to tell you, you have bought the wrong specification bearings. As mentioned below, you need face adjusted.
anamnesis

James,
if the movement is small then you can live with it, otherwise see my posts of -

. 30 September 2020 at 23:34:06 BST and the attached PDF

. 01 October 2020 at 14:04:17 BST and the attached PDF

. 01 October 2020 at 14:41:13 BST.
Nigel Atkins

Ok damn that’s annoying as I asked the Moss rep which ones should fit with my new hub!

I’ll have another look through the posts above.

Thanks
James Paul

James,
did you keep the cone-shaped spacers to the side of car they came out from?

Did you measure the cone-shaped spacers?

Have you kept the original hubs or replaced them?
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel,

New hubs, bearings but kept the old spacers. It all seemed to fit well. Until I fitted it on to the hub.

I’ve read some other posts and there’s a few in the archive reporting similar problems.

I think they’re just cheap crap or the wrong type.
James Paul

They are cheap, but not crap. They are simply the wrong spec. You could blame moss for giving you the wrong info and demand a refund. Not sure how you'll do though.

On the upside, mot exempt, and a small amount of play won't matter too much. But if you want them bang on, you need face adjusted.
anamnesis

James,
with mine for whatever reason the new cone-shaped spacer (or spaces I forget) had to be reduced in length to fit properly to the existing hub(s) using original (expensive) NOS bearings.

Moss offer tapered bearings so they might know of problems with the other sets they sell but I'm sure yours would be the first set ever returned by a customer of theirs because they don't fit, or they'd say your new hubs were at fault, unless they sold the hubs too in which case it'd be your fitting. I'm sure they'd give you the cost of the bearings back as a goodwill gesture anyway.

You forgot about this thread before fitting the bearings, get the Meditech before they sell out (which they should really have done a long time ago but I bet they haven't).




Nigel Atkins

As Nigel says James. You need these. Still in stock.


https://www.mgocspares.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.cgi?WD=bearings%20wheel&PN=MGOC_SPARES_STUB_AXLES__MIDGET__210%2ehtml#a36349W_2dGHK1142Q




anamnesis

Information.




anamnesis

Ordered and thank you!

Anyone want a lovely set of wheel bearings, going cheap! 😂😳😐🙁😢😭😡
James Paul

If you want to check your spacer dimensions I've got a Mitoyo dial gauge caliper.
I'm in Clevedon.

R.
richard b

They shouldn't have stock of the Meditech really as they only had 100 final re-stock and that was a long time ago, I bet they've sold thousands of the cheap sets in that time.

I know some don't like to use them but I meant to put last time, the mate who cut my spacer(s) said I should have just went to taper bearings as he fitted a set to his frequent use Spridget many years back without problems (and he doesn't drive slow). I can't remember if he said he kept the cone-spacers with the taper bearings or not.
Nigel Atkins

As a reminder for measuring tolerance see attached Technical Service Bulletin No. 72/F/2 dated December, 1972.

Nigel Atkins

So when I had both bearings fitted in the hub if I pushed the inner chase on the inner bearing it would move the inner chase on the outer bearing. I therefore thought that the tolerances were correct and when tightened up would be ok.

Perhaps not, but the top of the spacer when sat on top of the inner bearing was flush with the outer bearing register as shown in the pdf.
James Paul

Nigel,

Thanks for posting that .pdf its the first time I've seen it.

Now saved for future reference.

Paul,
Can do that check as well - have a DTI and stand.

R.
richard b

In theory one should be able to get an accurate fit with non-face adjusted bearings by either using shims or by lapping the spacer. But it would be a slow and tedious process and once done, any future bearing replacement would be compromised. Though since well adjusted bearings should last many tens of thousand miles that may not be a problem.
GuyW

Richard,
I put the PDF up earlier in this thread too and I think posted before that in other thread(s) but I might be wrong about that. The attached PDF symbol is easy to miss in a post.

For some reason I had lots of info and images and photos on this subject but I trimmed them down a lot, still got a photocopy out a book someone sent me though. 😉

In case you've not seen the PDF I've attached to this post before, er, I've, er attached it, to this post.
Nigel Atkins

So when I had both bearings fitted in the hub if I pushed the inner chase on the inner bearing it would move the inner chase on the outer bearing. I therefore thought that the tolerances were correct and when tightened up would be ok.

Perhaps not?
James Paul

James,
I'd confuse myself and you by answering your question so I'll leave it to someone else.

One more post and we have a Prop 100! 😊


(but still a mere intro to a fwb thread)
Nigel Atkins

Yep that IS a gem of a pdf Nigel.

Armed with that knowlwdge, and the means, any quality angular contact bearings of the correct size, AND if they have the correct inner radius, on the INNER race of the INNER bearing, can be made to fit properly as Guy describes.

Actually you can achieve the same thing by skimming a little off the INNER face of the INNER race of the OUTER bearing, just by using a wet stone; thereby preserving the correct length of the spacer for future use. Note: You should get 100k miles from good bearings installed correctly.

James.
If you could have 'crushed' the spacer by tightening the nut, you could have possibly solved the problem. But the spacer is not the crush type.

Two problems prevented you getting the right fit.
1. The bearings you bought were not 'face adjusted'. Simply meaning that they were not machined to a close enough tolerance, to match the factory design of the hub and spacer.
2. They also may not have the correct inner radius I described above. This would cause the whole hub to sit further out on the stubaxle spindle.

You say you bought NEW hubs. Actually modern factory made new? Or just replacements? I hope they are BMC factory spec, or you may yet need to read and act on the contents of the pdf that Nigel posted.

This subject is the gift that keeps on giving. If it was a lager, it would probably be the greatest story ever told.🤣 ; Along with oil sucking. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

anamnesis

Well it seems that oil sucking and fwb topics have a common feature in that both are things that changed on updated versions of these cars over a period of years. Its very easy looking at it through the telescope of time to forget that the principles changed as ideas developed.

Clearly early A30s used off the shelf (non face adjusted) bearings with a crush spacer and specified torque setting. Nigel's pdf of 1954 describes that system being superceded with a solid spacer and better tolerance bearings (i.e. face adjusted) Even to the point of offering replacement bearings for any old stock, it seems.

Why change from the crush spacer system? Despite Tony's post to the contrary, the solid spacer does add strength to the combined structure. Of course it doesn't strengthen the stub axle but it does reduce potential lateral flexing of it. Stub axles were certainly known to break on earlier cars.

Nigel's later 1972 pdf is interesting as it seems to acknowledge that there was still a possibility of excessive bearing slack in some cases. Was this an acceptance that face adjusted bearings wouldn't always be available, perhaps taking account of world-wide use of these cars? It's certainly a useful document.

The problem of the "tedious trial and error setting up" that I mentioned before is that it requires the hub to be repeatedly fitted and removed and the inner bearing doesn't necessarily draw off the spindle each time. If this happens the bearing pulls apart and your balls drop on the floor and no-one wants that to happen.
GuyW

Yes Guy!

"If this happens the bearing pulls apart and your balls drop on the floor and no-one wants that to happen."

I can confirm this has happened to me this morning!!

It is harder to extract the bearings if you have wire wheels like me.
James Paul

Hi,

Just had MGOC Spares email me saying they are out of stock and have cancelled the order.

Any ideas where else I can get them or recommendations for better replacements?

Thanks

James
James Paul

James

I have two sets of NOS bearings £40 per set plus postage

Bob
Bob Beaumont

James, there are no better replacements if mgoc are sold out.

You need new old stock 'nos', so suggest you snap Bob's arms off and buy his. Bargain.
anamnesis

guy

yes its interesting how the fwb saga has developed. Whilst the non face adjusted bearing is probably just acceptable for drum braked cars, those with discs need much tighter tolerences to ensure the pads don't get 'kicked out' as the wheel rotates. I recall the disc run out should not be more than 6 thou. Any more results in greater pedal movement.
Bob Beaumont

Guy,
page two - pdf attached.
Nigel Atkins

James,
it's as anam has put, if MGOC have sold out (at last) then unless someone is selling their set of Meditech, or original brass or resin cage, then that's it, but as Bob has some for sale at a very reasonable price grab them quick, fit 'n' forget, move on to the next thing.

As so many modern parts can be made so piss poor, especially rubbish rubber parts you want to check the Archives and check here for any updates.

Good thing is the proper bearings seem to last decades rather than just a few years.
Nigel Atkins

James.
If the inner race remains stuck on the spindle, there are two possible and preventable causes. One is if the wrong bearing is fitted, with only a 1mm inner radius to it's inner race. It should be 2mm. When the 1mm version is pressed on by the force of the spindle nut, it can well jam onto the radius of the spindle. The second cause is grit or a burr(s) on the spindle. The inner bearing should be no more than a sliding fit on the spindle, and with the correct 2mm radius, will butt up properly against the virtical shoulder on the spindle.

Yep Guy that's a good synopsis of the evolution of this setup. It chimes with my thoughts on the change of width to the outer race of the outer bearing.

The easiest way to take out the bearings, is to first remove the inner race of the outer bearing, by 'popping' it out with a bit of pressure from behind. That lets you remove the free spacer, and that exposes the drift pockets, which are used to drift out the outer races.

Given that it seems even the correctly spec'd bearings, sometimes need adjustment and even shims, as per Nigel's pdf, then an easier means of disassembly was needed, that didn't damage the bearings, such that they could reinstalled and be used after the adjustment.

The original outer bearing race width was 14mm. It is only 8.5mm on the later bearing.

See table (Nigel pdf) and picture.

It seems clear to me now, that the reduction in width, is to make it even easier to 'pop' the inner race of the outer bearing out, without damage to the balls (not that there is much if any anyway). Once out, the outer race can be drifted out for shims to be installed. And the the outer bearing pressed together again and drifted in. This isn't just guess work, I've found this to be the case in practice.







anamnesis

Coincidence, I was just about to repost my pdf of original bearing numbers and sizes from earlier in the thread.

See attached. -
Nigel Atkins

Thanks again everyone.

@Bob - can you please email me your details?

james paul 23 at hotmail.co.uk - (no spaces)

See how we get on with these, fingers crossed.

I spoke to Moss about the old ones, they suggested I speak to their R&D department.

Spoke to MGOC Spares - they said they are waiting for the next batch of GHK1142Q, should be 3 to 4 weeks.

Can get hold of the other version - GHK1142

Sussex Classic Parts said they have sold these types to many 'Midget racers' without complaints.

I think considering I took off what look like originals, it would be great to get a set off Bob to put back on.



James Paul

Sounds like meditech are still producing them then Nigel. Good to know

Suggest to Moss that they read the fwb threads on here, if they need evidence that they are selling non spec bearings. Don't hold your breath for an answer though, they already know the problem, but seem to deny it. Sadly so does Sussex.
anamnesis

James, what were the races like in the old set you took off? In the "old days" probably on pre war stuff, it wasn't unusual to rebuild bearings with a new set of balls.
GuyW

I could well be wrong but as GHK1142Q can still be added to the purchase 'Cart' I wonder if the 3-4 week restock is just usual computer setting response.

With a pandemic and the NHS backlog I wonder if B.N.O.S. Meditech who manufacturer medical gas equipment would be able to dedicate the resources to such a low volume and low profit process as buying in bearings to machine one set then add second bearing and oil seal and to package.

IIRC Chris(?) the MD had a Spridget and saw or had the problem of the bearings available and thought he could do something about it with his company. Doing so proved his company could but all the hassle probably didn't make it worthwhile, particularly if he continued to read about the subject on the internet and compared the volume of sales of his produce compared to volume of the cheap bearings that the most owners continued to buy because they didn't know better or were the usual tight-fisted classic vehicle owner.

I hope I'm wrong but AFAIK the last stock completed the contract and other than one other place (possibly an mg specialist Chris knew or used) I've only ever seen the Meditech bearing sold by MGOC, although they aren't marked as being such so I could be wrong again.
Nigel Atkins

Hi Guy,

I posted a pic in this post of mine:

01 October 2020 at 14:56:23

I meant mine were older and probably better than the new ones.

Hi Nigel, MGOC Spares said their stock system isn't linked to the website. Told me they had ordered new ones but are waiting for the delivery.
James Paul

James,
that should be good news about the re-order, I'd be happy to be wrong about this. Perhaps they have a contract for renewing orders - it would be Sod's Law as they were out of stock when I needed them a couple of years back and Sod's Law back in stock after I chased round and had fitted NOS originals.

Again I may well be wrong but unless you don't need to get on with this job and can afford to wait, possibly longer than 3-4 weeks, I'd still suggest you get the ones off Bob.

I've had some of the cheaper bearings and they lasted a couple of years use (which might equate to a very long time on some Spridgets even with track use).

Good luck with talking to Moss's R&D, I hope you have more luck than I did talking to a person in the technical department (not about fwb though).
Nigel Atkins

Interesting the comments from Sussex as I am sure they were stocking the Meditech ones at one point alongside the standard ones.

Trev
T Mason

Trev,
I can't remember that but I can't ever remember much, Sussex wasn't the one I was thinking of, it was a garage - be in the Archives, have a look. 🤣
Nigel Atkins

I thought Moss stocked both cheap and meditech at one point. But Nigel is probably right, that too many people will only buy cheap. Hence not worth suppliers stocking something they can't sell.

How about that bloke trading as rm bearings? Is he still selling his nos at 100 quid or side?
anamnesis

Nigel, I think the garage you are thinking of is Beech Hill in Reading, but I'm sure I saw them on Sussex's site at one point too.

Trev
T Mason

James,

I have sent you a message

Bob
Bob Beaumont

I seem to remember someone on the BBS swooping in and buying up the stock of one supplier. Or was that of some other component?
GuyW

Guy,
you're a very naughty boy.
Nigel Atkins

Guy

Well it wasn't me!!

Bob
Bob Beaumont

Trev,
I wondered if your memory might be a bit hit and miss like mine, but probably more hit than miss than mine.

Well done on Beech Hill Garage, I remember emailing the chap there - but couldn't remember the Reading bit so done an Archive search on it, which of course took me to a fwb thread. 😄

Reading Chris's posts on that thread showed how hit and miss my memory is.

Chris is Chris Buckenham (I couldn't remember his surname back then either despite his posts) and he had a Midget.

I was wrong in that - “… we are involved in the manufacture of specialist automotive components” so as well as medical.

I could see no mention of Sussex and can't remember if they sold them but if you say they did at one point I wouldn't and couldn't dispute it.

I had forgot that originally Chris was selling them on ebay and through his company on the (soon?) now defunct www.heritagecarparts.com.
Nigel Atkins

Guy,
it was one set at one supplier, all grease under the bridge now. 😀
Nigel Atkins

RM, RHP bloke - https://www.orinocobearings.co.uk
Nigel Atkins

James,
you could give B.N.O.S. Meditech a ring and see if they are producing their kits, if he's in you could ask for Chris Buckenham as he always seemed approachable on the subject, or if he's not there anyone else dealing with the fwbs.
Nigel Atkins

Pretty sure it was several sets Nigel. Someone who used to post regularly on the BBS, but left a long time ago.
GuyW

We're thinking of different people.
Nigel Atkins

James,

sorry I forgot the link - https://www.meditech.uk.com/contact-us/
Nigel Atkins

@Bob no email yet

jamespaul23 at hotmail.co.uk
James Paul

James
Odd I left a message
My email is frogeye61 at hotmail dot com
Bob Beaumont

Ah yes, orinoco. If anyone wants originalty, a hundred quid a side might be a cheap price to pay. Assuming they haven't been snapped up of course. 😉
anamnesis

Hi Richard,

Having had a good chat with Bob and learning a thing or two, I would like to take you up on your offer to check the tolerances of the new hubs I have bought.

Bob is sending me the bearings so if you are about I would be very grateful if you can pop over with your dial gauge calliper.

Here is my email address.

jamespaul23 at hotmail.co.uk

Many thanks

James
James Paul

If you can set-up and measure the play then you may be able to shim the outer race to make the internal clearance correct, ideally done on a test set-up so the clearance can be measured before assembling the bearing into the hub. These would be suitable for shimming the outer bearing https://www.accu.co.uk/en/704-shim-washers#elasticsearch_id_feature_1042156=1042156_758&elasticsearch_id_feature_1042152=1042152_699&id_elasticsearch_category=704&orderby=ranking&orderway=asc shame they don't do thinner than 0.1mm (0.0039") so thinner would have to be made to suit.
David Billington

David, as Nigel posted earlier, with the 1972 Service Bulletin for doing just that. Attached as you may have missed it.
GuyW

Guy,

I saw it but that is for the case where the bearings are too tight, I was addressing the more normal case with modern non face adjusted bearings where they're too loose which could be addressed by adding a shim between the hub register and the outer race.
David Billington

I meant as regards the test set-up sugested. It does refer to situations where the spacer stands proud as well, though says this is extremely unlikely to exceed 0.004"
GuyW

I emailed ORINOCO to ask about what original RHP stock they had, and how much it would cost.

Here is the reply:-----

Re: Obsolete rhp bearings wanted.

Hello,

We can offer as follows :

1. 2 pieces Inner Bearing 34LJT25 at £65.00 each.
The normal selling price for this bearing is £75.00 each.

2. 2 pieces Outer Bearing 3MJT17 at £55.00 each.
The normal selling price for this bearing is £65.00 each.

The bearings we offer are the much preferred "Brass Cage" versions.
Both 39LJT25 and 11MJT17 had the vastly inferior Nylon cages.

If you Order 2 pieces of each we will supply 2 Front Wheel Oil Seals
Free of Charge.

All items are available from stock.

UPS delivery is £10.00.


You WILL find cheaper and so-called "equivalent" bearings on the
Internet ( as you may have no doubt already found out ).

However these "equivalent" bearings DO NOT have the following features :


1. Manufacturers name stamped onto the bearing.

2. Country of manufacture stamped onto the bearing.

3. Manufactured with Brass Cages to retain the balls.

4. A 20 degree Contact Angle on the Inner Bearing.

5. A 2mm radius on the Inner Bearing for correct installation.

6. The bearings are " Face Adjusted" for correct fitting.

7. Lubricated to original drawing specification.

8. Proven to last for over 40 years.

9. Proven to get your car through any mechanical test or inspection.

10. Speak with any Classic Car owner who has bought from us for a
totally unbiased opinion as to the quality of our bearings and the
quality of our service.


Order by phone or email where you can pay by Credit Card or arrange a
Bank Transfer.


Regards

Graham

Orinoco Bearings Ltd
Leeds
UK

Telephone Number :
From OUTSIDE the UK : 0044 113 263 1919
From INSIDE the UK : 0113 263 1919

Email : orinocobearings@gmail.com
anamnesis

I am not so sure the nylon caged bearings are 'vastly inferior' I have those in my Frog since 2000 and they are still going strong with no noise or play. Their only downside is thinner outer cage of the outer bearing requires more carefull assembly to the hub.
Either way £240 for both sides seems rather excessive!!. I must put the brass bearings I have on my household insurance :)
Bob Beaumont

I agree Bob. There is nothing wrong at all with the resin cage bearings.

And as I said earlier, I think the shallower outer race on the outer bearing is not a cost saving excercise. It doesn't need to be full width. Because they are angular contact, similar to tapers, the ball race never sees the centre of the width in use. It's much easier to disassemble and assemble that bearing, with a shallow race. And as shown by Nigel's pdf, it may be neccessary to take out the outer bearing and spacer for shimming. Hence the shallow outer race.

Yep 240 quid. That's a lot. I'd get the 'cheaper' resin cage versions if I needed to, knowing how long they last.

But equally, I might buy the 13 quid versions and do a bit of grinding on the spacer, or shimming on the bearing, if the 2mm radius wasn't also an issue.

I guess a compromise would be a full price NOS RHP inner, and a cheap non face adjusted outer with a bit of shimming or grinding. You cut the spacer back more than required and then shim it back up to length in the future if you needed to do it again . --- Bearing (😁) in mind that it is the outer that wears more than the inner.
anamnesis

I bought a couple of these some time back - came in unmarked pack but had the correct 2mm radius when I checked.
Chris of this parish when he needed a set had one of my used inners + one of these and a NOS outer, the plan was to check the new inner but I think he used the old inner and all was well so can’t give a full recommendation as to quality (got to be careful these days !).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311365638067

Still have the other one in stock.

R.
richard b

There is nothing wrong with nylon cages. Originally most bearings had brass cages, but this changed over the years and several materials have been used including brass, steel, nylon and bakelite. If they are kept lubricated they will last years as they dont do much except keep the balls evenly spaced.

Using a NOS inner bearing and a cheap outer one will reduce the amount of adjustment required as there is only one variable.

Trev
T Mason

Yep. Little adjustment would be needed if a nos inner were used. By shortening the spacer, or shimming under the outer race of the outer bearing, the 'effect' is to face adjust the bearing. And once done, as long as a good quality bearing is used, it won't need adjusting again for circa 100k miles, aka, never again, given the mileages Spridgets cover these days.

Which is also a reason, that even at 240 quid, nos bearings are worth the money.
anamnesis

Always an interesting topic! Some thoughts:

Spacer and stub axle strength. Definitely a benefit to having the spacer and torquing to spec. The stub axle itself is a cantilever member supported by the upright. With the inner of each bearing all clamped up and pre-loaded via torquing the nut to spec and having the spacer in place, bending loads on the stub axle see the compression taken by the bearing inner pushing on the upright rather than in the stub. (There is of course no gain on the tensile side). This increases the depth between tension side and compression side of the cantilever, so reducing the stress in the stub itself by a substantial margin. A bit rusty on the maths as I haven't had to use it a while and anybody is welcome to correct me if I am wrong, but my recollection is that the stress is a square function of the depth, if so then the tensile stress on the stub is about halved. Even if linear the reduction would be very useful (especially as cracked stubs are a known issue)

Disc run-out: Can be an issue with caliper pistons if excessive, but bear in mind that MGBs are specifed with a shimmed up spacer and 2 to 4 thou end float. That definitely dosen't cause anough run-out to have the hint of an issue with caliper displacement.

Midget FWB set-up. We have addressed the radius issue by buying (good quality) bearings i batches and having the inner bearing radius machined to give enough clearance to allow for a 2.5mm stub radius. That still leaves plenty of bearing ID to locate properly on the stub.

The face adjustment issue we address by shim adjustment, which is after all the was the MGB is set up. We have established that a greased bearing which had 2 thou end float dry doesn't feel to have any play when the wheel is bolted on and given a test shake, whereas at 4 thou it is noticable. That has given quite a good feel for what has to be done to set up, and at worst takes only 2 adjustments after the initial assembly and feel. If there is drag on initial assembly we add a shim between spacer and centre of the outer bearing. Jaguar IRS pivot 0.003" shim part number C16626 is a perfect fit for this, and looks like it was made for the job.
After initial assembly, if there is noticeable bearing play that can be felt (when greased), we remove the spacer and machine 3 thou off it if minor and 5 though if more than minor. (sorry guys, I note the advice above about keeping the shim the correct length, which is great if you can get the face adjusted bearing but noting the above that is either difficult, expensive or both.)
If we machine too much then we can use C16626 to bring it back.
At the end we aim for a greased bearing torqued to spec with no drag and no play when felt with the wheel on. The first time through it took a bit of faffing to work out the parameters, but now we have it is a relatively quick process.
Paul Walbran

That's an excellent read Paul. There is a lot you can do, even if the original nos can't be found. And because it lasts so long, is worth the effort.

anamnesis

Hi,

Thought I would post an update on the hub and bearing saga.

I bought the bearings that Bob offered me (thanks again) and spent some time with Richard (thanks again) measuring the tolerances between the bearings.

Richard had one NOS brass bearing and we couldn’t even measure the difference between the inner and outer races. We then measured the outer bearings that Bob supplied and the difference was about 5 thousandth of an inch on both.

We then measured the new bearings I bought from Moss and the difference was about 12 thousandth!! So no wonder they were wobbling around after fitting.

Although the guidance is to have a tolerance between 0 and 4 thousandth we both agreed that it was worth trying and I am pleased to say that both hubs are now fitted and there is no wobbling and they spun freely.

Thanks to everyone for your help, really appreciate it as always 😊

James



James Paul

Great result and good additional information James Paul.
anamnesis

Well done to all.

But James, I think the gold plating is going a bit OTT!
Nigel Atkins

So pleased you have been able to complete the job ok.
You won't need to touch that part of the car again apart from periodic re greasing!
Bob Beaumont

James popped around and we did a few checks, his spacers were bang on and I know he won’t mind me adding my additional comments.
I had forgotten that he had wires and doing the measuring for clearance as per the Tech doc Nigel posted is much easier for steel wheels than wire as you are working ‘down the hole’ and was a bit of a challenge as I don’t have extension rods for my DTI (must make a set) so had to use a parallel to elevate it.
This is compounded by needing to set the hub up on a steel such that the hub rests only on the inner bearing (used a large socket) - it gets quite tall !
If I do this again (wire wheels) I will machine up a stub with a loose fit into the bearing to make it less ‘ tippy’.

The results from his new hubs were as I remember 4 and 6 but as I noted it was not as good a set up as it would have been with the correct dti.

I can’t remember the check figure on the new outer but I thought it was nearer 1-2 thou - as James noted a brass nos bearing I had was virtually flat.

The faulty bearings (not face adjusted) were way out.
Also the inner radius seemed to be more like two chamfers joining at a point than a true radius and not meeting to give the 2mm.

Really pleased that James now has it sorted finally.

R.
richard b

This thread was discussed between 30/09/2020 and 03/06/2021

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.