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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Wire wheels

I have a 1963 mk2 Austin Healey Sprite.
The car came with steel wheels but I would like the option of fitting wires.
Am I right in thinking there are two options to do this? Adaptors or hub swops?
What are the pros and cons of both options?
Anything to watch out for etc.

Cheers Geoff
G Woodfield

it's more than hub swaps; you need to swap the entire axle and halfshafts complete. However wire wheel quarter elliptic axles are rare as hen's teeth. It should be possible to modify a half-elliptic w/w axle to quarter-e spec. The simple solution is probably bolt-on adapters but these may have their own downsides....
David Smith

I have been running with bolt-on splined adaptors for the best part of 30 years. The only trouble that I have had with them is a couple of sheared wheel studs. I have since replaced all the studs. If you are going down this route I'd check your studs carefully. Only other thing that I'd point out is that on my car the track width is increased both front and rear so the wheels fill the arches a little more. My car is a frog and I had to trim the lower front edges of the front wings to prevent the tyres fouling.
Simon
Simon Wood

I'd also add that the adaptors that I have use a special tapered nyloc nut. When you need to get your brake drums off, you obviously need to remove the adaptors and in time your nyloc nuts will deteriorate so you'll need to keep changing these.
Simon
Simon Wood

Thanks both, option 1 sounds a bit involved, but the adapters sound ok.
Any good suppliers or more importantly ones I should avoid?
Like the idea of adaptors as I can always swop back to steels should I want too.

Cheers Geoff
G Woodfield

Other than the preferred looks of wire wheels (not by me obviously) could someone tell me any real advantage on road use cars (flex?)?

Geoff, (and everyone else that wants them),
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't have wire-wheels, or anything else, on your car that you want.

I think the steel wheels look great and give a nice feel to the car in use.

My previous Spridget on steel 3.5" wheels -


Nigel Atkins

I really want a splined conversion, and then fit knock on alloys, I think they look superb, but the price would give my wife a fit.

Dave
Dave Barrow

Sorry to be so blunt.

No advantages to wire's
They are heavier
They wear out
Available in less widths and offsetts
And are fiddly to clean

The bolt on adaptors are imo rubbish
They are heavy (you practically fit a double hub)
The offsett is wrong giving an ugly look and rubbing issues.

If you want wire wheels do it right.
Get a wire wheel back axle (it is less wide so the tyres end up in the right place)
Fit proper wire wheel front hubs and disks.
It will cost more but is safer, looks better.

If the cheap/easy option was better the factory would have gone down that road.
O K

Hi Geoff,
There is no need to need to change your rear axle,the wire wheel axle has a slightly narrower width,it is now possible to get longer wire wheel half shafts that will fit straight into your axle.I believe these can be supplied by Peter May.The bonus with fitting these is they are made of a higher spec material to the to the ones fitted to the early cars which were very weak.All you will have to fit are shorter wheel studs,nuts and lock tabs.
On the front fit wire wheel hubs and discs,every thing else is the same.
The early works cars had wire wheels fitted using splined front hubs and adapters,the choice is yours .The only thing to watch eel out for is the clearance between the wheel and the wheel arch,the inner lip can be relieved or bent up with out changing the external appearance of the wheel arch. Sprite Mk2 looks brilliant on wires,my own Mk2 will be on wires ,I do have a correct rear axle and I will be fitting uprated half shafts to cope with the power. I hope that this is a help.

Tony
TONY GRIFFITHS

My last midget had wires, but I converted it to Rostyles, as I didn't think wires suited the RWA car.

There are also the increased maintenance and cleaning issues associated with wire wheels, as mentioned by Nigel.

My MGB has wires, but I'm seriously tempted to convert it to early steel wheels and hubcaps.
Dave O'Neill 2

Wow what mix of reactions and methods, thanks one and all for the above.
The reason for wanting wires is purely looks, I think they look more period than steels.
Cleaning them is not a major issue as the car covers limited mileage in the year and is cleaned after every use.
I once saw a British racing green Morgan with body coloured wires and chrome spinners and as my car is the same colour I have always fancied trying that look.


Thanks once again for the information.

Cheers Geoff
G Woodfield

I wouldn't give them house room. Heavy, not very strong, prone to spoke failures, impossible to clean in less than two hours, prone to rust, and you need tubed tyres. Where's the advantage? I agree with Nigel and think the car with disc wheels and hub caps looks terrific. My first Midget looked like that.

If you look at racing photos when sports cars often had wire wheels, a shot taken looking towards an on-coming car as it corners will often show the wire wheel bending with the lateral force. No thanks.
Mike Howlett

Mg's where delivered with steel disk wheels from the Y type onwards.
Give that this was a good 10 years before any modern midget was produced I'd say that the steel wheels are the periode choice.

imo wires look off at diameters below 16" ( and even that is questionable)
The triple M M.G.'s and T-types(td and tf excluded) are the ones that wear wires well.
But even then they are a pain needing frequent fixes/replacements.
O K

Geoff,

I've done about 80,000 miles on my wires. No loose spokes, no rust, no spline wear, no problems whatsoever other than the aforementioned broken studs which I think was down to one that was in poor condition subsequently working loose.
Granted that they are a pain to clean but if you like them (as I do) go for it, to my eyes they look "correct" on early sprites and midgets.
Simon
Simon Wood

I think my '65 Sprite looks OK on its 5.1/2" wires. And easy to clean with products like "Dragons Breath", or "Iron off" from the Valeters Pride company.

BTW. Just my opinion. I don't like Rostyles. Didn't like them on Fords either. No disrespect to those who use them.

If you get a stone chip on alloys and moisture gets under the laquer, they soon start to look a mess.


Bernie Higginson

Bernie
THAT is one good looking Sprite
Green with envy
willy
William Revit

Thanks Willy.
I'm afraid it's not one for the purist. It's got loads of stuff on it that shouldn't really be there, but it's all stuff that I fitted or modified in the interest of improvement, comfort, drivability or safety.

Even the round arches are wrong for the year. I made them from Ford Fiesta mk1 rear arch repair panels. £12 the pair from Ebay, against £600 plus for two round arch wings. The mod was done to get the wider wheels under the arches.

It's also got a body coloured dash with extra dials, a five speed Ford type 9 gearbox and mgtf seats, ànd a fire extinguisher.

This winter's jobs include a camshaft change, gearbox rebuild and front wing side vents incorporating side repeaters and hazard flashers. Don't know if I'll get it all done though.

Geoff. If you want wire wheels, go for it. It's your car to do what you want to it. A mk2 will look great with wires. After all it is the best looking of all Spridgets with the top down and its lovely clean lines.
Bernie Higginson

Bernie
Could you post a photo of your rear arches that have been repaired with the Fiesta Mk1 panels. I am thinking of making a set of front wings to match my round rear wheel arches, and those might do the job neatly.

Ian
Ian Webb 1973 GAN5

Bernie,

Are the wheels the 5.1/2" Spridget items from MWS and what size tyres are you using, 185x60?

Cheers

Motley 5

Wires look great on a Spridget.
My Midget has had the same ones for 30 odd years and they are still in excellent condition and as said, look great.

Only drawback is to have to use tubes in the tyres, which can be a nuisance.
JB Anderson

Here you are Ian.
I didn't use the Ford panels to repair the arches, rather to make complete new round arches on the square arch wings, which involved quite a bit of measuring and measuring again and cutting. I originally stitch welded them on, but then decided to fully weld them in to stop any moisture getting at the back of them. I then blended them in with filler. The inners were made up from small pieces welded to the original inners and the new outers.
You should be OK with them as they are the same radius as the GAN5 rear arches. I assume the fronts are the same.

There is a pair on Ebay for £35 at the moment.

Motley.
Tyres are 175/70x13 Uniroyal Rain Experts.
The wheels used the original hubs and MWS fitted 5.1/2" rims, for (wait for it) £5 per wheel! Mind you, it was 1970😁.
The hubs are just starting to click on acceleration and overrun after over 100,000 miles. I wonder how much it will cost me to re-do them🙁.




Bernie Higginson

Thank you for all the replies positive and negative are still appreciated.

Its a great sign how everyone has their own opinion.

My car is untouched matching numbers, can I fit wires with adaptors without rolling the arches and staying with the original tyre size?

Cheers Geoff
G Woodfield

Bernie,
New from MWS currently £141.75 +vat each! I would think to rebuild yours, even more.
Motley 5

Motley. Yes, I had a look at that and nearly wet myself. I think I'll let them click for a bit longer. I love the wider wires, but if I did change to alloys it would probably be to Revolutions. I think they are a nicer period mod than the ubiquitous Minilite replicas. But I hope I can keep my wires for now.
Bernie Higginson

These are my 'before and after' photos.


Dave O'Neill 2

I still love the look of them, just watched Car SOS with the Sebring Sprite and if the are good enough for Sir Stirling Moss they are good enough for me, just need to start saving.

Cheers Geoff
G Woodfield

Bernie you've made a lovely job with that car. I notice that you have a green steering wheel which is just great. Where did you get that from - I want a blue one!

I like wires, but I'd not have them on mine. But then, if everyone did things for the same reason then we'd end up with loads of cars the same and that'd be boooorrriiinnggg.
Rob Armstrong

Rob. I agree entirely. Variety is the spice of life.

Green steering wheel. It's a 12 inch motolita, bought for me in 1970 by my then girlfriend for £10 brand new! It was black and over the years had become quite worn, so I decided to colour code it to The car. I bought a piece of Jaguar automotive type leather from a trimmer friend of mine, then I went on the Internet and watched a tutorial on Cross-stitch. Bought some needles and a bodkin to make holes. I cut off the old covering to use as a rough pattern and had a go at it. I incorporated thumb spats, which it didn't originally have. I was quite pleased with the result, but I think I could make it a bit better if I did it again.
The other alternative is to use leather dye. A Friend with a B did the whole interior of his car in Magnolia. The effect was brilliant. And he says it hasn't worn off on the wheel.
Bernie Higginson

To address the negative comments about wire wheels:

It's been possible to get wire wheels that don't need an innner tube for a number of years now and in a range of sizes including 5.5inch width

A steel wire wheel is about the same weight a steel rostyle, if not less - obviously dependant on size.

I've not had spoke failures on my wire wheels even when they are quite old + my modified Sprite does get to some 'hard work': acceleration, braking, cornering, high speeds.

I don't see a need to clean the wheels that often.

I've not found they rust readily.

Yes a bolt on minilite replica would weigh less but would still need to be cared for over team to prevent corrosion.

Apart from appearance, which is a matter of opinion, it's probable a wire wheel allows the brakes to run cooler with only the original minilite possibly working better in that respect.


Daniel Stapleton

I've done a quick search but can't locate a positive answer. Will the 4.1/2" wire wheel from a Spitfire fit? The swap must have been attempted/done over the years and would offer an immediate alternative to the standard 4".
Since there appears to be a lack of support for the swap, I suspect a negative reply!
Motley 5

Having experience of painted and chrome wires, the chrome ones seem much easier to clean!
Graeme Williams

Also, what about MGB 14" wires? Do they fit our Midgets?

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

AFAIK MGB wires should go straight on, spline-wise, but I don't know about offset/clearance.

I believe that the splines are much shorter on Spitfire wires.
Dave O'Neill 2

Hi Rob
The answer is yes, I've had 14" MGB wires on for over 20 years now, powder coated a couple of years ago.
Lee
L Ellis

Interesting photo daniel.

The 'Minilite' copies I have don't require much work to prevent corrosion, my car stands, uncovered, outside 365, gets winter use and they're cleaned more like a number of times a year than a month, they're scratched to wotsit but no corrosion that I've noticed in seven and a half years of use.

Personally I don't like the look of (13") Rostyles on Spridgets but don't mind then on Bs and other stuff.

Anyone gonna let Motley know if 4.5" Spitfire wire wheels fit(?).
Nigel Atkins

I think Spitfire wires will fit Spridgets. A Friend is building a Sebring and he has been talking about fitting them because they are a bit wider than the standard Spridgets 4" items.
Bernie Higginson

Video clip of my car's wire wheels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTIhM-2OMus
Daniel Stapleton

With its wide wire wheels and green colour Bernie's Sprite is one of the best looking cars around. It just looks right.
Les
Les Robinson

This thread was discussed between 30/11/2016 and 04/12/2016

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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