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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Wire Wheels to Steels?

After spending the best part of 5 hours cleaning my front wire wheels, I was pondering!

If it possible to convert a wire wheeled car to steels?

And if it is, how?

R Williams

Do not know about the midget, but it should be possible. I have converted an MGA and three MGBs from wire wheels to disc wheels by swapping out the rear axle (narrower for wires than for steel wheels) and the front hub assemblies. Made a noticeable difference in handling. The steel wheels are lighter than wire spoke wheels (lower unsprung weight) and more rigid. Plus, they do not break spokes, nor go out of tune, like the wire wheels can do. Having owned these cars, with wire wheels and disc wheels, since the late 1960s, I would never again have wire wheels on one of my cars unless it was a dedicated show car.

Les
Les Bengtson

Rylan,
plenty of threads in the Archive about what's required

you might be able to do a swap or sell on to someone that wants w/w

if cleaning them was the only reason they're a PITA they might not be so bad as there are methods of quicker cleaning

Nigel Atkins

fit some centre locking miniltes - heavier but you will never notice - look good and easy to clean - period as well, just a tad pricey
S G Macfarlane

changing to steels requires:
- different front hubs, NLA so s/hand
- new discs
- new bearings
- a steel wheels axle casing complete with halfshafts, hubs, bearings, handbrake linkage
- new brake cyls and shoes
- 16 wheel nuts.

Faced with the same problem (too) many years ago I painted my wires with black Hammerite, lasted about 15 years.
David Smith

But given that wires are wanted you might be able to arrange a swap....
Onno K

For the amount of work involved ...id look to the steel wheels that use a wire wheel hubs

Yes ... there expensive but so is all the parts needed to make the conversion...if not more so

You could just sell the car and rebuy closer to what You want

Your probably looking $1500 to $2000 to make the conversion without a trade

Plus theres all that...."while ive got it apart, I might as well -----" and that adds up fast and large

So you see the steel wheels with knock off hubs. Are actually very inexpensive...when all things are considard

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Rylan: I would have thought that a complete wire wheel kit, albeit second hand, would have a good value. It would need to include the backaxle, half shafts and brake bits of course (as listed by Dave) and then you would need to obtain replacement parts for your steel wheel conversion. Lot of work.... and cost.
Why not buy a set of repro Minilites with knock-on centres. THey are probably wider than your wires so you would need new tyres. And you could sell your wire wheel/tyre combinations fairly easily I would have thought.
Or go to Halfords and buy a wire wheel brush. It takes me about 15 mins to clean my wires although I believe it takes the Mrs twice that long to clean my trousers as the wheel brush makes a lot of "spray" when you use it.
Graeme Williams

knock-on minilte copies are expensive (about twice the price when I last looked) and it still leaves the troublesome knock-on and threads

but it's what I'd consider

however Rylan has the Kent MG Mafia to help him change from one set of parts to another in an afternoon with at least one holding the flag :D
Nigel Atkins

But it's not the knock-on or threads that Rylan is complaining about -just the cleaning. The complete change-to-steel requires and awesome set of bits even with the undoubted skills and talent of Kent Masc members helping out (afternoon - nah, couple of hours including cleaning the wires as they come off).
Graeme Williams

I replaced the wires on my last Midget with Rostyles.

I sold the old bits for more than the cost of the replacement items.

It isn't really that much work and knock-on Minilite lookalikes are rather pricey!
Dave O'Neill2

Surely there are some suggestions about the best way to clean wires? It seems a major project just to avoid cleaning. Would a cheap pressure washer and some form of degreasing pre-treatment make it a piece of p*ss?

I've not found it a significant issue but then I only use the car in fair weather. My reason to consider getting rid of the wires would be down to the problems I have had with punctures as tyre fitters don't have the skill to fit tubes properly nowadays (most anyway).

Did I read in an early thread about putting the wires in the dishwasher? Short or long cycle depending on how long the Mrs was out for.
Graeme Williams

there are more issues with wires than just the wheels or the cleaning of them

wire wheels are like CB points you either like them and can put up with them or you can't

I'm sure I've seen several cleaning suggestions on various forums

as Dave's put people have swapped (both ways)
Nigel Atkins

Why not invest in the knock on minilites. Take your time cleaning the wires then put them in the back of the garage.

When you deceide to move the car on, put the pristine wires back on and save the minilites for your next purchase, or sell them as well to recover your costs, used centre locking mninilites don't come up very often, and when they do they sell quickly for a good price.

If you hang on for the next Moss VAT free promotion you can save 20%

this sounds a better option to me than doing the wire to steel conversion - personally Im not sure of the worth of a used set of wires and splines
S G Macfarlane

One of the main problems with the center locking disc wheels is the same one as with the wire wheel system--the ridges within the wheels, and on the hubs, will wear over time. This will be an even bigger problem with the aluminum wheels as they are significantly less deformation resistant than the wire wheels with their steel center hubs. Were one to switch over from the wire wheels to the center locking, aluminum disc wheels, the condition of the axle hubs would have to be new/excellent to minimize possible wear problems. Having seen, on a fellow club member's car, the rear axle hub and inside the the wire wheel hub strip out, I am wary about installing new, expensive, wheels on older hubs. He made it home by cutting apart an aluminum can and wrapping over the axle hub, then forcing the steel wheel on over it. The wire wheel system is heavy, not very robust, expensive when you need to replace the hubs, and more difficult to keep clean as compared to the disc wheel system. Plus, I have had two wire wheels break multiple spokes when on long trips, causing some interesting handling problems at highway speeds. On the other hand, I have never had a problem with disc wheels over many hundreds of thousands of miles and decades of use.

Les
Les Bengtson

I've not had a look at the converted Minilites. I know the extra centre mechanism doubles the cost, but is that not steel? If it were ally I can see it is potentially a failure point and presumably if it were steel there would be ally/steel corrosion issues.

Nigel: Ryan only complained about cleaning issues. I can't remember whether he has even said he doesn't like the look of the wires or he is worried about breaking spokes (he hasn't in this thread).
Graeme Williams

Hi Graeme,
I was going on previous threads and advice to Rylan when he was looking at potential Spridgets to buy which included advice about w/w, plus in his post - >>If it possible to convert a wire wheeled car to steels?

And if it is, how?<<

I put about other cleaning methods that he can research and >>if cleaning them was the only reason they're a PITA they might not be so bad as there are methods of quicker cleaning<<

it wasn't me that mentioned breaking spokes or liking the look of them, that bit I think was only you - have you been out in the sun too much mate your usual good humour seems to be missing

in fact I've not mentioned the issues with wire wheels, other than cleaning, you and others have :)

(and there are still a few more that could be mentioned)

Rylan knows my views on w/w from a long back but it's his car and his choices and likes and dislikes not mine, and I think it would be fair to say that Rylan doesn't follow my advice

one thing I didn't notice straight away was that it was 5 hours on just the front wheels(!) so I'm certain there could be quicker methods of cleaning
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, I picked up on <<there are more issues with wires than just the wheels or the cleaning of them>> and filled in the gaps!
Please don't take any offence from that..... none was intended.

I speak to Rylan at Mafia-meets (as you would refer to them!)and so sometimes have a different understanding to the one portrayed in the posts. Getting rid of the wires just seems a massive job and even if the owner didn't really like them, is the effort really worth it until you reach the point where everything else has been done and you start to look for another bit to pull apart. And happen to win the lottery that week!
Graeme Williams

hey Graeme, no I wasn’t taking offence - plenty of gaps with w/w, not all intended though :)

how could I take offence with someone that knows the value of the good book – (which also has the servicing and checks required for w/w)

and I’m with you the money, time as hassle is best saved until the car has been regularly serviced and run all year round reliably for at least 12 months otherwise the money, time and hassle may be required for more urgent distress purchase(s)

the Mafia bit comes from a mate referring to some of our club members who are also in the Edinburgh MGOC, it’s only meant as fun from him and me as outsiders to the group, I think some of them even use the reference themselves now and three of the chaps some time back formed their own “Bad Boys Club” but they’re much more like Last of the summer Wine

note the weather today (and for the last 7 weeks here) and the weather for tomorrow and forward – there is a reason for this change – ooops, well off topic now
Nigel Atkins

Here's a before and after pic.

Personally, I prefer the look of the Rostyles to wires on later cars, particularly RWA.

At the time, I need to replace the tyres, as mine were possibly the original Michelin Xs. I picked up a set of Rostyles with almost new branded tyres on for £50, from someone who was changing to Minators. I just happened to have a spare s/w axle and front hubs lying around in the garage, although they aren't desperately expensive or hard to come by.


Dave O'Neill2

Nigel: the Kent Branch of MASC seems to be quite thriving at the moment and we are lucky to have Alan who is always willing to offer help and advice (and write about it in Mascot). An active group like that is really worth its weight in gold for helpful advice and support.

Dave: actually my preference is for wires over Rostyles AS A LOOK, but not for problem free running. That's why I think Rylan's stance seems a bit extreme for an issue as simple as cleaning the things. I suspect it might be a generation thing.
Graeme Williams

Graeme,
I totally agree and best if the group covers a wide range of opinions, advice and experience and also preferably age

imagine if a new young new asks "which is better good CB points or good electronic igniter head?" you want at least one person to stand up for the points :D

I don't like the look of Rostyles on Midgets as the wheels are just that bit too small

but the Rostyles, to me, look much better on that car than the wires, so I'm with Dave
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 01/09/2013 and 04/09/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.