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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Wonky Midget 1500 rear suspension

Hi Guys

As usual I'm back when I'm in need of some advice, hope that is ok?

Ok, it's MOT time next week and I'm sure all will be fine, however I'm a little concerned about the rear suspension. The drivers side is a good 2" lower than the passenger side, Alan had previoulsy informed me this is common and the leaf springs have probably given up.

So I'm thinking I should fix it in the not to distant future and have a few questions.

* Should I change both springs at the same time? I guess so!

* Is it only the springs that need to be changed?

* Looking at MGOC (is this the best place to buy from and cheapest) I can buy standard or uprated, which should I buy.

* More than happy to fit myself, any uaual problems, bolts seizing etc?

* MGOC sell a spring kit, I assume this comes with all new nuts bolts so would prob go for this.

* Finally, front is also a little low on the drivers side, I'm hoping this is a result of the rear?

Thanks in advance for anything you help with.
Arron
A Burgess

well you should do both springs,that alone should be all that needs changing, and yes i would imagine that should help the level out the front. as for the best plce for quality springs i would have no idea. however bought mine twenty years ago from moss, they have been fine. i.e still flat and level
d a hadaway

Both sides - yes

Whilst you're at it it would make sense to do the bushes (much debate on which bushes to use - see other threads) and anything else like axle straps, bump stops, ect. and check your dampers

also you may need to change U-bolts get NOS if you can not the cheap nasty ones

buying cheapest can work out expensive

new springs were previously of poor quality lasting only 18-36 months so ask your supplier what the situation is now

unless you've got uprated elsewhere why not stick to standard

there's an order to doing the job to make it easy and stop axle moving about too much (sorry I can't remember it I was told by someone)

sorry I don't know what's included in a MGOC spring kit

replacing the back may well help with the front - you'll find out for sure

P.S. see other thread about springs
Nigel Atkins

Just posted this on another thread, spring suppliers recommended on this BBS

Brost Forge Motorspring Service
149 Roman Way
Holloway
Islington
London N7 8XH

Telephone: - 0207 6072311

and

decent springs, not cheap, Clive Berry - c.berry@fsmail.net
Nigel Atkins

This is a common problem but has nothing to do with the rear springs
If you want to prove this then simply swap the 2 leaf springs from one side to the other? if it is a spring the car will sit low the other way. Let us know how you get on?

The problem I have found that causes this in many Spridgets is the suspension points. If you raise up the front suspension on the side that is low you will probably get the car level.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Yes, as been mentioned do both rear springs. The best quality is always cheaper then cheap because by the time you buy 2 cheap sets, you've paid more than a good set costs, not to mention your time.

As for the spring hanger bolts, don't forget the ones behind the seats! 2 go up into the body and 2 come through to the spring hanger plate. Spray them with penetrating fluid daily, not WD-40. That is not a penetrating fluid.

New U bolts for the rear axle is always recommended and sometimes it's easier to undo the shocks from the body although I didn't need to do that on mine.

It's not a particularly difficult job, more of a PITA than anything.

Good luck and any questions don't forget to ask!

Clive Reddin

Like Bob, I'd swap side-side.

A
Anthony Cutler

That was what I tried when I had this problem some years ago, but swapping rear springs side-to-side made absolutely no difference. Messing around with the rear springs was a complete waste of time!

If the rears are worn then just replace them both. I splashed out on a set of the Clive Berry/Mark Boldry ones which were expensive but give a noticeably better and more compliant ride. Well worth the bit of extra cost!

As Bob says, the real problem of one rear corner being down invariably lies with the front suspension. Unevenness at the front always seems to result in this.

Guy
Guy

As usual guys thanks for the help and advice, I'll have a look but if my memory serves me right the front is pretty level, certainly not out by as much as the rears.

I had previoulsy lowered the front but will have a look to see how the levels compare side to side, if level then guess its the rears.

Had a phone around and they seem to be about £45 a side, so £115 all in with fiting kits, also asked about quality and they said have been fine of late (MGBhive that was).

So will get car MOT'd on Sat and whilst up on the ramps have a look around the underside to see if the suspension points are all ok.

Bob, do the spings not sag over time, so if the drivers side sags then that side would be lower?

Will report back, if it passes the MOT then no major rush but a job I'll get done this year as flaps are scrapping the tarmac on left hand turns!

Thanks again
Arron
A Burgess

Arron,
Just another comment: a small difference in the ride height at the front does seem to accentuate into a bigger difference at the rear. And it works diagonally, so that a high front side results in the diagonally opposite rear corner being low.
Swapping the rear springs may make a difference, but I didn't find it so.I think it would be a waste of time.

But if your rear springs are becoming tired, then new ones may sort the problem out. If it doesn't look again at the front; possibly experimenting with some washers under the spring pan.

Guy
Guy

Rear springs sag over over time, esp the driver's side which is normally the most weighted; this is most usually seen in more recent (lower quality) production.

BRB's rear springs are now flat, but consistent over some years; nice low height, and ~level. (When fitted, new rears can give the car a tail-high stance, verging on the comedic.)

Front springs being coils are less susceptible to lowering over time - but these are very easily swapped side-side.

HTH

A
Anthony Cutler

Hi Arron

The key is corner to corner. In setting up suspension systems we speak in "corner weights."

Imagine a 4 legged stool, if one leg is shorter than the other 3 what happens?

The stool will pivot on 2 long legs and the shorter leg will allow the stool to go low either toward it or towards the longer leg.

What needs to happen of course is to push up the shorter or longer leg to keep the stool stable.

Now the Spridget is the same, somewhere one leg is shorter than the other. which means it pivots on the opposite corners. I think with the engine being the heavy end the short corner lifts the rear opposite and makes it look like the rear of the car is unbalanced

Anyway the corners need to be balanced and the easiest way is to adjust the front by shimming or whatever. This will then correct the back of the car.

I have to agree the rear springs do sag but they sag at the same rate. Or at least the ones I have had do.

I am only trying to give you cheap advice to save you money. So if you want to check the validity of what I am suggesting simply swap the 2 rear springs side to side. If the problem is one spring sagging more than the other then the car will sit lower at the opposite side. If it is not a rear spring fault then the car will sit the same.
Bob Turbo Midget England

would this be able to be determined with corner weight measurements? might be easier to do than changing the springs about?

presumably with the stool, if the stool was leaning on the short leg it would have more weight on it? front to back may not be useful but side to side should show up any oddities. How much should a corner of a spridget weigh?

(looks covetously at g/f's bathroom scales..)
Rob Armstrong

Bob, I now see where your coming from and the use of a stool makes it clear, thanks for that.

So based on that, rear right is low so front left should be high, or the front right is low, lifting the rear left making it look unbalanced, got it!!

I will go off and investigate!!!

I wonder if i took it to a garage how many would have just fitted some new springs and sent me on my way!

Thanks again
Arron
A Burgess

Ok, well car failed it's MOT, once up on ramps I found the cause of the problem, drivers side leaf spring broken, top leaf had snapped in two, would have been ok if I had not just spent half an hour playing around with the front to level out the rear, which had actually worked!!

So one side of the rear already in pieces on the garage floor, tatty and bare metal bits coated in hammerite, will order new springs tomorrow and refit one side this week to get it through the MOT, then will do other side.

Thanks all for the advice and will let you know how I get on.

Arron
A Burgess

Sorry mate? very rare to have a spring break.

However pleased it is now repaired, but demonstrates check the basics!
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

I too have recently had a leaf broken in the rear spring. Couldn't understand why the steering wheel was no longer in the straight ahead position on a straight road and thought perhaps the steering rack had moved. On inspection it was obvious that the driver's side rear spring was to blame as the rear shackle was at a strange angle. So a pair of new springs were ordered and that's where the heartache begins - both forward spring hanger plates had been welded to the underside and had to be cut off (and replaced with new)and to top it all, the axle case had a hole in it and was p***ing oil when it was dropped.
The good news was that after it was all sorted, the juddering on take off that I had been experiencing (thought to be the clutch) has completely disappeared.

Dave
D MATTHEWS

No way, welded front plates, that that would have wound me up!

All parts ordered today so should be refitting tomorrow night if all goes well, hopefully refitting will be as easy as stripping down!
A Burgess

Update, all repaired and MOT passed, springs simple to put on (however was much easier with 2 sets of hands!), car now sits and drives much better.

Only issues were the fitting kit, shackle bolts were longer than originals so did not fit into recess and ubolts were shorter so made it difficult to bolt up axcel, ended up using originals!

Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated!
Arron
A Burgess

This thread was discussed between 20/03/2011 and 15/04/2011

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