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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - CLARKSONS TOP 100 CARS!
|Motoring guru? Jeremy Clarkson has just released his top 100 cars video and as you would expect there are no MG's,not even the MGB,the highest placed Rover is the SD1 at No 47.What irritates me though is his top 5 worst cars and yep you've guessed,4 of them are ARG/BMC cars as follows:|
3.ROVER 200(year not stated)
Well Jeremy,you obviously thought long and hard about this list and put down the first ones that sprang to mind,a 10 year old would probably give us the same list,though the Allegro would be No1 i suspect.The fact is,no car is worse than another but as i dont have the privilege of people paying for my opinion i thought i would put it here for free as follows:
2.CITROEN 2 CV
This list is obviously more balanced and is'nt picking on one manufacturer because it's easier,and believe me my 5 worst cars ARE the worst.Really Mr Clarkson,you must try harder.
What about Lada
|What did he like?|
Why not list your top 5 worst,obviously include the Lada but try not to make obvious choices as per Clarkson
For a full list of the top 100 see todays Sun newspaper 29/11/01,or get the video!.
|Strangely enough I bet most of us actually agree the four BL mentioned cars are not very good! |
I also totally agree about the MGB too. One of the worst cars of its period during the later years of its life!
Read Clarksons latest reports on MGR products, he thinks they are alright. Let us not keep looking in the past! Think future!
|Rock & A Hardplace|
|IMHO, having driven many of the cars voted by our esteemed Brit and Euro motoring journalists over the years as "Car of the year 19XX", I found some were in fact worse than those so called BMC/BL "worst" cars ever. However, if Clarkson, Needell, Wilson et al say the car is good or rubbish then it must be right .... init .... stands to reason ... there it is in black and white or on your screen! On the other hand, you could ask, what do they really know?|
Not seen the Sun item and will not either. Why? The paper ran a very biased article back in the 70s and I get back at them ever since by NEVER buying it even if a colleague says "going down the shop John, pick up a Sun for me". That applies irrespective of the mammory dimensions on page three ..... and I was breast fed as a baby and have been a sucker for big uns ever since .... :0).
Plus; I wont buy Clarkson's book which because of his age and the influences during HIS formative years, provides him with a very limited range of vision. So, really, when all said and done, who is he to judge?
What would be more of interest to me here on this BBS thread though would be the TOP cars and WORST cars that YOU have actually owned. Not a list of cars others say are the worst ever so lets all go with the flow on that one. Cars you've actually chosen and bought with your own money and have been pleased to own or not! That I suspect is something many of the readers here have a real and much wider experience of than the likes of Wilson, Clarkson and co.
Oh please yourselves then - Helps to pass the time though ..... :o)
|Couldn't resist this! I compiled this some time ago , so Of all the Cars I have EVER driven, and for all sorts of reasons - |
1. MG Maestro 2.0 EFI
2. GTM (Mini derived kit)
3. Hillman Avenger Tiger
4. MG ZT
5. Mercedes-Benz C320
1. Nissan Micra (1985)
2. Lada Niva estate
3. Renault Megane Scenic
4. Moskovitch 470
5. Austin Allegro (1750 only)
|To bring some relevance of Z Saloons into this thread my Top 5 now reads like this:|
1. MG ZS180
2. MG Maestro 2.0 Efi
3. MG Montego Turbo
4. Rover 620ti
5. Alfa Romeo GTV Cup
|The last THREE posters text is enlightening to say the least and also very interesting.|
Most pro-MG people always say how good the MG Maestro and Montego were! The press by and large dismissed them, except for when they drove them.
I remember reading in Autocar as the MG Maestro was being phased out - they said go and buy it!!
It is a very underestimated car in comparison to the Top Hatch of the time Golf GTi!
Dave take it you have built a GTM? Shows how sad I am, when I got my fisrt real MINI (1275GT) tried to persaude Dad to get an Allegro Equipe (sp), he bought a Princess instead (Victor Wood of Oakham)! What was the problem with the Allegro 1750?
|I'll add my tuppence...|
1) Mazda MX-5
Beautifully balanced, front engined, rear drive roadster which was reliable and didn't leak. Need I say more.
2) MG ZS180
3) Honda Civic
Hassle free motoring with a decent, if soft, double wishbone chassis.
4) Peugeot 106
A hire car which surprised me. Spartan yet comfortable, soft yet enjoyable handling.
5) Citroen 2CV
Having appeared on Kevin's bottom 5, I must jump to the defence of the 2CV. I did 9000 miles in 10 months. It cost about £60 in parts for the servicing, was very easy to work on, totally reliable and was surprisingly good fun to drive. You get to drive it flat out everywhere without going any faster than the other traffic on the road ;-) Alan Clark even asserted that there is not a corner in Europe that cannot be taken flat in a 2CV!
Bottom Five: (leaving the worst 'til last)
5) Cadillac De Ville
Great V8 engine but that was all I can say in its' defence. OK for downtown Chicago and Schaumburg but, show it a corner, and it had all the dynamic attributes of a sofa on a skateboard.
4) Vauxhall Corsa
Unreliable, under-powered and a chassis that understeers regardless of what you are doing.
3) Buick Skylark
The size of a Granada and less interior space than a Fiesta. Don't know how they manage to do it!
2) MkII Ford Fiesta
See the Corsa above but with less comfortable seats (God, I'm beginning to sound like MEGA ;-) and more rust.
1) Vauxhall Vectra
I borrowed an early 1.8 from work to drive to a course. I selected a route which included one of my favourite stretches of road. What a disappointment! You needed to start turning the wheel 50ft before you wanted the car to start turning in. Dynamically the worst car I have ever driven and with no redeeming features to pull it of the bottom.
Looking at the list above, I seem to have as great a bias against GM as Clarkson does against BMC!
|As i started this i must explain that although my i have never driven any of my 5 worst cars,the fact that they look about as inviting as a weekend at Michael Barrymores house surely qualifies them.If you dont like the look of it,you wont touch it!.Heres my top 5 that i've owned/driven:|
1.ROVER 200 BRM limited edition,unlimited fun
2.ROVER 620ti fast and comfortable
3.AUSTIN MINI need i say why!
4.MG MONTEGO TURBO a modern classic
5.ROVER 220 GSI a very underrated car
All Rovers i know but you know when you are on to a good thing!.
|Here's my five!|
1. Lotus Elan
2 R5 GT TURBO
3. RS 1800
5. MG Metro ( ok for the time)
GTM...Never built it, just borrowed one, and borrowed it again...and again. The full Mini experience, only from an even lighter point of view! All controls, responses, hooked directly to brain.
1750 Allegro.... A criminal missed oppotunity, the wonderful ride was compromised by that overweight E series, and anyone who talks about understeer has never driven this one. And that engine in a small body sounded and felt so coarse, that it felt as if it had been hewn out of granite. The chassis and steering (in standard Allegro format) simply could not cope.
|Hmm......you like the Allegro.....no wonder you think MG's are outstanding!|
astra mk2 2.016v
|Top Five from cars driven & owned.|
1. Mitsubishi EVO VI eXtreme & RS Sprint
2. Mitsubishi EVO VI GSR
3. Mitsubishi EVO VII GSR
4. Lotus Elise
5. Triumph TR8
6. BMW X-series
7. BMW 3-series
8. BMW 5-series
9. BMW 7-series
|you like the xr2,no wonder you think the focus will be good, God you r still an ar*e then|
Blimey,your top ten includes some of the most desirable cars available,which begs the question,if you own the ultimate drivers car e.g.(EVO VII)what is it that makes you decide to get rid of it and buy something else?.
Not fully explained:
1. Mitsubishi EVO VI eXtreme & RS Sprint (Test DROVE only)
2. Mitsubishi EVO VI GSR (owned)
3. Mitsubishi EVO VII GSR (just bought)
4. Lotus Elise (owned)
5. Triumph TR8 (owned)
BMW's - your guess?
|Oh yeah ... the Allegro 1750:|
Like MEGA and many others, I too had a misconceived opinion of the Allegro indirectly gleaned from those I suspected knew better. After all, was is not the replacement for the much loved 1100/1300 cars?
In the early 1980s, I took a temporary job whilst setting up my own business and as the "new boy" they threw the keys to the company Allegro to me "Hey John there's your new wheels Ha Ha!" Oh dear an Allegro ..... head drops .... street cred shot to ribbons ..... oh unhappy days.
WRONG! It was in fact one of the last off the line and with twin SUs and a lusty 1750 engine in a car designed as a 1 litre runaround, was the sort of car that has much appeal to me. A Q Car! A visual pussy cat in sheeps clothing that could shall we say, get a move on! Remember, this was twenty years ago when those other marques admired by certain contributors here had only recently started offering their clients such new fangled ideas like front wheel drive, suspension even and hey five gears!
Soon got to like this Allegro .... a lot. Giving friends a lift it was a delight to see their own ideas about the humble Allegro change as a result of actual experience of the car. Previously, like me, they relied on those who one would think knew better about cars .... the journalists. Goodness me, have they in all their forms got a lot to answer for and if there is someone keeping a careful note of things somewhere in the great unknown, boy will they pay .... :0) ... and they're still at it!
I never tired of the look on drivers' faces as time and again that humble Allegro left their over-rated, over-priced wheels for dead particularly in the places that really matter; the twisty bits. Got up their noses summat rotten so it did. Alright so some people never grow up (praise be) I can almost hear some of you think. I defy you to honestly tell me you've never enjoyed doing something like that! If you can, why are you wasting your time on a motoring enthusiasts BBS.
So, yes, logically let's hear it for the Allegro, the worst car in the history of the universe as we know it Jam. After all it has all the necessary qualifications and here is the list. It's British ... :)
There again, what does Clarkson know? Just maybe he has something to sell and needs some dough quick for the upcoming service on his his fragile Ferrari. BTW, does Ferrari mean Smith in English?
Happy MotorinG ..... ;)
|My top FIVE dream cars.....|
MG METRO 6R4
Mercedes-Benz 300SL ( only the Gull wing - keep the rest )
1965 Lotus Elan
A new 1985 MG Montego Turbo. (anyone got an unused new one stashed away someplace? - 'appens - I want another one!)
Ah perchance to dream ...... and all that kinda stuff.
|P.S. So why is there not a ZT or other modern MG-R sporting car in my dream list? Because fellow enthusiast, they are realities NOT dreams.....|
6R4 - my dream car too! Just loved watching them Rally. That V6 on the cam sounded fabulous.
Can't believe that at the end of the Grp B era, I phoned a dealer in Cornwall (was living in Newquay at the time), and the price was £15,000 + speares for a new machine. Probably wouldn't run as the engine would've required sorting. Couldn't afford it - the boss wouldn't let me re-mortgage the house!
Now look at them - £30k minimum - for a low mileage one!
The same engine was as alos used in the XJ220 too. When Walkinshaw developed he engine into a turbo. Same engine was used at Le Mans in a Hugh Chamberlain prepped car and which won its class! Was there to watch it finish!
|Clarkson is an idiot (although he was very entertaining when he wrote for "Performance Car", Top Gear is childrens' television (the magazine is even worse), and, as for the likes of Jason Barlow (Ken's bastard son) and Adrian Simpson (Homer's bastard son?), words fail me...|
The only motoring writer with the sense he was born with is LJKS.
Now, he raved about the MG Maestro 2.0Efi (so did Clarkson, as I recall.) Mr Setright was gobsmacked that the BMEP of the injected O-series was greater than that of the Ferrari 328 Quattrovalvole.
"Car" magazine said the Efi was "better than Darren's XR3i." Furthermore, "Car" thought the MG Montego Efi was, "the best mid-range sporting saloon." It also tested a Monty against a Sierra 2.0i, and a Mitsubishi Galant. Its concluded that the Monty was endowed with the best handling, ride, interior, performance, steering and brakes. In short it walloped the Galant and the Ford (sorry Mega.)
As for Ferrari..
One Christmas I received a Clarkson video in which the hirsute-one proclaimed the Ferrari 355 the best car in the world, ever! A Ferrari! Old Enzo was never an innovator and the motors that bear his name are almost totally irrelevant. In F1, Ferrari has always appeared dunderheaded compared to the likes of tiny British outfits (Lotus, Williams, McLaren etc.)
Now, that Mr Chapman: he was a genius.
And the greatest car of all time is so obviously the BMC Mini that it hurts.
Anyway, I remember the words of Mr Gordon Murray, designer of the McLaren F1, - and fan of the MGF - when asked, in the early Nineties (before the F1 was shown to the world) whether the F1 would be anything like the Ferrari F40. "No," he said, "We don't have anybody at McLaren who welds that badly..."
Allegro 1750..I must fall into line with you when I remember the looks on friends faces, especially the one with the 2.0 GLS Cortina back then ,as his face used to recede in the rear view mirror.
As I said, my list was for all sorts of reasons - And this 1750 falls in to the bottom 5 as it showed such promise, yet simply was NOT developed in the Chassis and steering departments which, was a tradgedy, as all the ingredients were there, and the cost of uprating would have been negligible. Just think of the Track and race potential of a sorted 1750!!
The 1750 was one of the "imported" Allegro's, being assembled at the Senneffe plant in Belgium, where all of the Equipe's were manufactured. How times change, in just 25 short years..........
|BTW...I have made a mistake on my list, The Moskvitch 412 was the one and NOT the 427/470 (of course!) which was the (Still awful) estate version (!)|
|Gillson wrote about the Montego and others:|
<< "Car" magazine said the Efi was "better than Darren's XR3i." Furthermore, "Car" thought the MG Montego Efi was, "the best mid-range sporting saloon." It also tested a Monty against a Sierra 2.0i, and a Mitsubishi Galant. Its concluded that the Monty was endowed with the best handling, ride, interior, performance, steering and brakes. In short it walloped the Galant and the Ford (sorry Mega.) >>
AND, often overlooked, it has(had?) the best all round visibilty of any ordinary car at the time. One of the MOST important safety factors!
Have to agree about Setright. Now there's a motoring journalist worthy of the title.
|<<AND, often overlooked, it has(had?) the best all round visibilty of any ordinary car at the time. One of the MOST important safety factors!>>|
Drive a new Mondeo Hatch and see how much better it still is.
|>>>>>>Now, he raved about the MG Maestro 2.0Efi (so did Clarkson, as I recall.) Mr Setright was gobsmacked that the BMEP of the injected O-series was greater than that of the Ferrari 328 Quattrovalvole. |
"Car" magazine said the Efi was "better than Darren's XR3i." etc
All this seems to have been forgotten, especially lately with the new Z cars having been launched recently. I've forgotten the times the MG Maestro/Montego have been slagged off for build quality, peformance, handling etc. It was the best all round package of the time, and still holds a good case for itself in today's modern world. Why has it been overlooked? Personally i have no idea..
Maestro Turbo #466
|Just waiting till 2003/4. New Porsche Boxster coupe (i don,t like drop tops)or a Range of new LOTUS or Jag F-type. See what MG is producing (IF anything).|
|Just waiting till 2003/4. New Porsche Boxster coupe (i don,t like drop tops)or a Range of new LOTUS or Jag F-type. See what MG is producing (IF anything).|
the only car your ever likely to own is the one you nick,you live at home with me and have some sad job earning £200 pound a week(big money in pool) and coming on here causing trouble is the only way you can get attention because in reality you are a failure in life.
anyone else care to give a psychological profile of mega?
|Megas Mum, |
... how could you admit to spawning such an offspring. You also wrote << ,you live at home with me and have some sad job earning £200 pound a week(big money in pool) >> as much as that: RESPECT ... :)
|Please can we get back to the original thread?which is your 5 favourite/5 worst cars,please post your psychological analysis elsewhere,preferably any where but the MG BBS.Thank you in anticipation!.|
|Good idea Kevin,|
Earlier Jerry remarked on the sound made by the MG Metro 6R4's engine: << That V6 on the cam sounded fabulous. >>
I agree. To my ears, the "works" cars in competition back in the 1980s made one of the finest engine sounds ever produced by any motor car. Fabulous describes it well and Just thinking about it now all these years later it is still an inspiration. Prior to the 6R4, I considered the works Ferrari V12 sports cars of the 1960s to have the finest engine sound and never expected anything to top that. The 6R4 proved me wrong! Cool and I get a nice reminder of that same engine sound when the ZS180's KV6 gets down to business.
|Top 5 favourite drives:|
1) Robin Hood EXMO 2.0 (Kit Car)
|'Ang on, I'll try that again!|
Top 5 drives:
1) Robin Hood EXMO 2.0l (Kit Car)
2) MG Maestro 2.0i
3) ARG Mini (a real one, not the BMW thingy)
4) Marina GT
5) MG Metro
5) BMW 3 series (BORING!)
4) Mk3 Cavalier (bad handling)
3) Mk4 Cortina 2.0 estate (accelerated sideways!)
2) Mk2 3.0GT Capri (Arrrggghhhhhh!)
1) Vauxhall Viva HA
BTW, before you question the Marina GT, it has Special Tuning suspension and Minilight alloys and is a cracker in the wet on round-a-bouts!
I had a Capri 2.8 injection and loved it. What was the probem with yours?
What was the colour of the GT. Have to say I liked the Light Green hatch Marina (can't remember its correct colour)!
| ...... and my choice for number 5a: must squeeze it in! ... making it a top six! ....:)|
A 1968 MGC tourer in pale primrose with chrome wires and thin white-walled tyres. One of the most beautiful looking cars ever in my books. That fine "long-legged" unstressed straight-six cruiser. Press did not like them though apparently .... worth repeating, what do they know? I mean really.
|how can yorkie say that a Vauxhall Viva HA is one of his worse cars..yes it did rust..but no worse that other cars around...but that greabox was a treat..such a short throw between all gears. and every one goes on about how good fords were!!|
my top five..
2) mga twin cam
3) E type..but not the V12.
4) Riley Pathfinder..with Police markings!!!
5) a 1920's leMans Bentley
1) Moscovitch...any one (is the spelling right?)
2) Wartburg..eastern Germany's finest!
4)Porsche 911..i am going to get caned for that one...but what the hell!
5)Vauxhall Viva HC or any car Clarkson likes!!!
so that is me..but ask me next week and i might have changed some of my views!!
|Hmmm - how about the 'five worst motoring journalists' - after all, the cars can't exactly 'defend' themselves...|
|An MG Writer who shall not be named|
The spelling is "Moskvich"
For a piece of inert nostalgia today, try...
|An MG Writer who shall not be named, England WROTE:|
<< Hmmm - how about the 'five worst motoring journalists' - after all, the cars can't exactly 'defend' themselves... >>
What a cracking idea MG Writer. IMO, Needell and Wilson must figure high on that worst list. Going to have to think about it though because the choice is huge ...... there's so many who rightly qualify .. :)
|Dave..how could you leave such a deposit on this BBS? ;-) thanks for correcting me..i knew i had got it wrong.|
>>>>>>Hmmm - how about the 'five worst motoring journalists' - after all, the cars can't exactly 'defend' themselves...
IMHO I believe the cars have done their defending already! Just that we seem to remember differing stories of their defence ;-).
I would chuckle to myself if one of these esteemed fellas (or felless) write something here!
|Jerry, the 3.0 was prior to Ford discovering handling on cars, it had handling by committee; the front went where you pointed it and the back had a vote on it! It was yellow with a black vinyl roof and brown skid marks from the doors back.........|
Ian, Clearly you haven't driven an early HA with the transverse front leaf spring.....also the gearstick had the habit of pulling out if you swapped cogs too quick....and it rusted like b*gg*ry.
The longest any of the 5 crappiest drives lasted was the Mk3 Cav, only because it was the company driver at the time and I was stuck with it for a year. It was when the cars had just been launched and was supposed to be rather good....was it hell! The speedo drive fell off twenty miles after I picked it up, both front indicators would work loose and land on the bonnet ( frightening on a motorway at night), the boot filled up with water on wet days (from an air vent behind the rear bumper), the seats reclined themselves, the handling was diabolical, the rear brakes would jam on if used too hard and all four wheel trims sailed off down the M5 at various times (and there was a strike on so you couldn't replace the buggers). The only good thing was the ECU had a plug on it for setting octane; set it to unleaded and run it on 4-star and it went like hot snot......
This thread was discussed between 29/11/2001 and 02/12/2001
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