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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - Induction Kit vs Warranty
Maxogen Induction Kit or Pipercross? What's the real difference? .. and is it worth it? (Specifically the £300 asking price for the Maxogen)
See below for the reply I received when I enquired about the Maxogen from ITG after Roger posted on this forum with his comments.
I also had a loose connection with the SRS recently, so when I got that fixed I asked if it would be OK to fit the induction kit (Thinking Maxogen on the principle that more expensive is better).
This procedure would invalidate the warranty, (I'm assuming in the event of a related failure.) was the response. I will need to obtain a letter from MG/Rover to authorise it's use, otherwise (my interpretation) I'm up the creak without a paddle if anything goes wrong.
Is this likely, a letter from MG/Rover authorising third party kit in their cars? If so who do I contact?
Without the letter I'm inclined to give it a miss. I can't afford the risk, specifically since I'm not totally convinced about reliability with the ZS. Don't get me wrong if I had the money I'd go and buy the same car all over again (OK I'd remortgage the house and get a ZT385).
|Sorry forgot the email bit, so here it is.|
Thank you for your e mail enquiry regarding the prototype development
Maxogen airflow systems kit we are finalising for the MGZS.
The kit will replace the standard intake system and allows a much more
direct and greater flow of air to enter the engine. There are gains in both
power and torque from low down the rev range up to a 10bhp peak increase. I
am still finalising costs for tooling to put this kit into production but
expect it to be around £ 299.00 + VAT and carriage.
There are no modifications that need to be carried out to fit the kit just a
lot of taking off and putting back on again. There is no real noticable
noise difference below 4-5K rpm but when the car comes onto the cams there
is an adrenaline infusing roar all the way up to the red line.
I am able to provide you with a copy of the rolling road test results that
we carried out on Roger Parker's 180 if you are interested. If so then please
provide me with your full postal address.
Many thanks and regards
£300 for 10bhp is expensive. However HKS kits for the EVO series are similar money. Personally, I wouldn't bother, especially if you are worried about warranty. The car already makes good bhp, the xtra 10 would only be noticed on a trackday, when you are pushing it.
If thats your thing fit for track day then remove, as you are risking the whole car on these events and whats £300?
If its not power you want, but the induction sound then then go for it! But, be preapred for the worst if the engine develops a fault and you can' remove it.
Also, don't forget to tell your insurance company, you have fitted an after market gizmo.
Just like to say, that when I had my EVO VI with full Ralliart warranty, I knew I voided the warranty with HKS induction/exhaust and Ralliart piping/ECU's. this is the risk you take, I was prepared to foot the bill if the engine developed a fault because the car was not as the manufacturer intended on delivery. See http://jerryflint.net/EVO%206.htm then Diary
PS. I doubt MGR will ever authorise such a mod unless it becomes a factory fit option!
|I would not be not so sure that it could not be approved by MGR. Maybe Roger will clarify? If approched correctly, I see no reason why such items cannot be sanctioned!|
|Would be nice if they did. The only trouble is where does it stop? Fo instance after market exhausts! |
The only way it could be sanctioned are approved after market "kits" fitted by the dealer. Then a loading for warranty work - this is how Mitsubishi did it until they changed their mind. They allowed HKS exhaust - springs - induction kit - boost gauge and rod bolts at a cost of £3250 (parts only cost £1500). The extra was supposed to cover expenes + warranty. But they changed their mind and withdrew the option.
However, I suppose in time they might go for it! I personally doubt it.
|If you're driving a ZS180 on the road within an inch of its life to the extent you need an extra 10hp you're gonna loose your licence anyway so I wouldn't bother! :-)|
It's awesome as it is, bonkers even; use it and abuse it, take it to the limit until the warranty runs out then breath on it!
If you want to mod it and protect warranty I'd look at the tyres, when I drove a 180 very hard the tyres were scrabbling for grip - they took a while to warm up. Maybe Bridgestones or Yoko's rather than the harder Mich Pilots. I'm not so sure it can get the power down it has already!
|Ian - perfect answer! The guys who do "Track days" say your money is better spent on tuition. After thas suspension. Don't think the ZS needs the later though.|
Got one for a few days next month, will report back!
Talking to Kelvin, he does endorse Rogers work - any comments on MGR giving an endorsement Roger?
Tuition is indeed worth it's weight in gold; either cct or even advanced driving. For the former, Three Sisters in Wigan do an advanced saloon car instruction course using ZR 160's for £99.
quote from http://www.racing-school.co.uk/homefrmr.htm
"Advanced Saloon Car Instruction (ASCI)
For those people who want to improve or perfect their saloon car driving whether it be for road or race circuit use, we offer advanced saloon car instruction in one of our MG ZRs. Under expert tuition you will have the opportunity to learn the skills and techniques required to drive a saloon car smoothly and quickly. This course consists of demonstration laps with one of our experienced MSA licenced instructors to familiarise you with the Three Sisters Race Circuit and with advanced driving techniques. This is followed by a short briefing covering safety, cornering lines, braking points, smoothness etc. Then its onto the track again for the first of your two ten lap advanced saloon car sessions where you will experience the thrill of learning to 'handle' a sports saloon car to the best of your ability"
That'll be for us then!
IIRC Thruxton use MGF's for a similar course.
Skid instruction is also a good investment for when it goes horribly wrong...
|The best part of the changes to my car isn't the 10bhp, which is a small gain, but the mid range advantages that comes with the system. This is felt in more torque and a little reduction of what is perhaps the weakest part of the KV6, the mid range. The engine has a sweet spot in the area of 3000 to 4500rpm where the difference is felt and this is a very useable area to see gains. |
I have yet to do the latest fuel consumption returns, but they are clearly going to continue with the gains I saw in the first 100plus miles following fitting. This has provided me with the advantage of better fuel mileage than before when I asm not taking advantage of the torque gains.
Warranty is a separate issue with individual dealers interpreting the warranty situation on behalf of MG Rover. At the moment the kit would in black and white terms fall outside the warranty window. The same situation has been applied to MGF and other cars and the general view is that only where the change can be seen to have had a direct influence on the failure that is raising the warranty issue would there be a problem. For example if a wire or pipe became damaged because of rubbing against the new air filter then this would not be covered as it could be acceptably said that the non standard part caused the problem. On the other hand a problem with the clutch could not.
The influence of these kits is clear from the work done by the engineers in Powertrain. Take a simple look at the induction system on TF 135 and 160 and here you have a production version of the Maxogen. The ZT190 gains mainly from the adoption of a less restricive induction system and I foresee the same being applied to the ZS180 in due course. I have demoed the car at Longbridge and the figures have been viewed with interest. This is not an approval though.
I am expecting a range of MG XPower products that may well include items such as replacement induction systems as these are easy to make and will be good sellers. These would obviously carry some approvals in respect of leaving warranty unaffected.
|Thanks for that Roger, I like the idea of X-Power product very much!! :-)|
On the point of skid control may I suggest you look at http://www.combe-events.co.uk
There are schools in other parts of the country, but Skid Control at Castle Combe is very very good!
Looks as though the product will have MGR backing - good, eventually. It is the only way ahead!
|>>>>otherwise (my interpretation) I'm up the creak without a paddle if anything goes wrong|
Mantles Rover in Biggleswade are currently replacing the head *and* head gasket on my MGF under my 1 year Rover warranty. This is despite my K&N filter staring them in the face every time they open the engine bay.
So - **in practice** the warranty **seems** o.k. with the K&N, but I wouldn't like to give any firm guarantees!
One thing I wonder is, will Mantles be happy to reattach the K&N at the end of the job and still guarantee the work done?!? I'd understand completely if they wouldn't.
This thread was discussed between 27/04/2002 and 29/04/2002
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