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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - New 200ps Limited Edition ZS

New 200ps Limited Edition ZS was on display at the MGCC international event at Silverstone on Sunday.
Fancy wheels, carbon fibre centre section on rear spoiler, race style seats, specia decals by side repeaters, new big X logo on steering wheel.....prices start from
Martin Woods

Wonderfull news!
They only need 299 suckers to buy them now?this has all the makings of a BRM fiasco.
After 2 years you would think that they would be upgrading the ZS180 to 200 ps by now.
MM
m moore

>Wonder if they are about to launch a ZR version?


No!!
Kelvin

>>>>After 2 years you would think that they would be upgrading the ZS180 to 200 ps by now.
====please explain which bit of "New 200ps Limited Edition ZS " you did not understand ?
David

David
I didn't miss understand anything, although i cant understand why anyone would buy a trophy yellow ZS but thats a different story. :)
I guess they only need another 298 including you.
any more takers?i wont hold my breath ;)

MM
MM

from a road safety aspect I prefer to 'see and be seen'. BTW I didn't buy it, I chose it - it's part of my package. All part of the MG experience, complements the Monty turbo, MGF, BGTV8 and 2 midgets.
David

MM

you are such a plonker and you can't spell, you sh*thead.
Goff

Saw the prototype at Silverstone and wasn't overly impressed. Nice wheels, standard front splitter with a pair of Demon Tweeks corner aerofoils poorly glued to it, an unusual carbon fibre middle part of the rear boot spoiler and a twin exhaust that i really liked until i was told by someone on the stand that one of them was a dummy.

Apparently they have spent a lot of time on the suspension, which is odd because the suspension is the best part of the ZS and the one item that doesn't need any work. Brakes on the other hand could be better, these are standard on the WSR limited edition.

Sorry if i'm sounding a bit negative here, honestly i feel it is a good idea that just needs a bit more work (and a minimum 215 bhp). I'm probably not very impressed because it was opposite one of the ZS touring cars and i had a direct comparison with 'the real McCoy'.

Overall, i approve of it as a concept, but it really does need some major tweaking to make it V.F.M. IMO

SF
Scarlet Fever

Agreed. Whilst the concept is sound I think 200ps is low compared to others of this ilk! How does ps compare with bhp!! I did read on Jerrys site that it may be down to gear box loading (Im no techie) but sounds feasible. However, I still think its a bit of a bogie ;-) I suppose it all depends on what,if any, discounts are available.I for one am more than happy with my "standard" 180.
S Forbes

200ps = 197bhp which is the same as the old T series Turbo, but whats the torque figure?

Gareth
Gareth Kidman

The gearbox loading theory is probably correct. I have a Rover 800 Vittesse with the T16 turbo engine putting out 200ps. It has done 104,000 miles and the gearbox has been getting louder over the last 5000 or so.

David
David Witham

PG1 gearboxes come in two flavours, 216Nm and 240Nm capacities with a vehicle weight of 1900kgs. IOW it should reliably take that torque input where the GVW (gross vehicle weight) of the vehicle is up to 1900kgs.

The 177PS spec KV6 gives 240Nm to torque and the 190PS ZT versions give 245Nm. The L series diesel (using the same gearbox) also delivers 240Nm.

The vehicle weights are interesting and have to be viewed from a manufatcurer perspective where users do all sorts of odd things with their cars, like towing trailers! On it's own the weights of ZR and ZS are well below the 1900kg threshold, but add a trailer and up they go. The permitted maximum GTW (gross train weight - car and trailer together) for the ZR is 1800kgs and for the ZS 1920kgs (inc a hidden permitted extra 100kgs on vehicle GVW when towing under a certain speed.)

Clearly what appears as a big window to operate in as far as weight is concerned is not wide at all.

Now the PG1 is capable of taking more torque reliably as experience of myself and others with high output 8 and 16 valve turbo engines has shown. However all of the applications I have known here have not been burdened with trailers upping the vehicle weight. In fact history shows that the PG1 was initially only available in 216Nm format and when the 200PS T16 turbo engines arrived only the 200/400 body with l;ess weight was allowed to have this until the development of the 240Nm uprated PG1 allowed the Vitesse Sport and 600Ti.

An interesting side note for current specs is that the uprated L series diesel models deliver 260Nm of torque, so these are a modest 8.3% overstretching the limit or reducing the weight ceiling to maintain the same factors as other cars. As far as I am aware these increases have been introduced accepting that there is an increased risk to the gearbox longevity.

For the future I have a clear view that many of the aspects for model development in the powertrain area are restricted by gearbox limitations. With this relieved the door can be opened quite significantly to higher engine outputs (if desired!). During a specific short discussion with Gordon Poynter at Powertrain I mentioned the torque limitations and lack of six speeds to which the reply was that they were also looking at providing a synchronised reverse too. No committment as to when, but the recognition of the limitation is well seated there.

Mention of 6 speeds is also very applicable in respect of this ltd edition model, although I haven't seen it. I haven't seen any detail specs for this as there is still no official release information, but I see a claimed reduction of 0.4 secs in the 0 to 60 time and just 1mph more in claimed top speed. Using maths it shows that by just fitting the ZT 190 spec engine should raise the top speed to 141 and with 200PS it should rise to 144mph. Rising to only 140 indicates that the gearbox is using a 4.2 diff ratio in place of the 3.9, as 140mph relates to near as 6500rpm, peak power point.

Dropping the gearing does wonders for the sharpness of the acceleration, especially in the in gear acceleration areas. The car will be much sharper as the numerically lower final drive allows for a much greater torque multiplication, 7% approx. The drawback is that top gear is shorter and so fuel consumption (and CO2) suffers. Having a 6th gear allows the tight spread of ratios for that sparkling perfromance and a top gear ratio that allows economical cruising too.

Interesting comment from Scarlet on the exhaust as I was very interested in what has been done. Having already looked very closely at this (see image published some months ago in Enjoying MG) I have already seen that where the main pipe comes through the rear suspension on the offside, there is no prospect for the same on the nearside, not unless the fuel tank is removed. Mounting a cross over pipe at the rear is also hampered by the spare wheel wells proximity to the rear suspension beam, leaving only a chance of a small bore pipe between the back of the spare wheel well and the 'plastic' rear valance. IOW much work for that tell tale cold morning vapour trails from both tail pipes.

Talk of a modified induction system is thoroughly logical as it is one of the main gains seen on the ZT 190 and that cars induction system is actually better than the standard ZS KV6 one. With a solid 10% power and torque increase seen over a very wide and useful rev range with the ITG induction system used on my car, it seems quite probable that with a decent development budget a truely optimised system will see more and not suffer the same limited gains in the 5500 to 6000rpm areas I see, and 10% on top of 177 is nearly 195, just short of the 200PS claimed.

Unfortunately I see this ltd edition more in the view of a modified standard car that would be done by a small independant company in the 'Max Power' style, rather than what seems to be a factory backed product. Probably as well as there are only 299 to move, but then let us see the 200PS as a standard engine spec!

Rog
Roger Parker

oh,ok
darren

In this SE's defence, I rather liked the look and stance of this car.It looked superb in black. I'd be tempted to delete the X-power Green stripes though.

With lowered suspension, and Rob Oldaker's gang working more magic on it, my expectation of this car's handling is sky high.

Speed in a straight line is pretty boring. Speed in corners is what counts. ;o)

I want a go. Please.

Sounded rather excellent as the chaps drove it out of the display area on Sunday evening. Yum tum :o) Much more audible than the surprisingly quiet SV! ;o)

If only the car had a decent interior - then I'd be able to persuade my wife that this car would make an excellent replacement to our 75... oh well :o(
Rob Bell

Its Funny, its the sort of car that you want to belive in! Than you look at the spec sheet and you see it has feet of Clay.

Yes the V6 makes a very nice sound and it has some useful mid range Torque, but lets face facts here my 2 litre Honda CTR makes +200 BHP and has a 6 speed for now about 16,500 ish with Air-con.

For 20,000 i expect 220-240 bhp 4-pot brakes, better lights and may be a L.S.D. The thing on offer is 5 speed, not 200 BHP and no 4-pot brakes!

For 23,000 ish you into Scobby land, 4-wheel drive, 260 BHP 6 speed, 4 pot brakes....Modden car with loads of street cred and Jap build Q!

As for the exhurst, its the sort of thing you see in "Max Power".

Mega.
Mega

Yep, I agree - it's pretty cr@p innit??
Eric

Not wanting to rain on your parade or anything, but getting around corners is better than straightline speed or any 'Super trumps'- like comparison of spec sheets.

Not that straight line speed is anything to worry about in a 200ps ZS...

What I'd like to know is why a "2 litre Honda CTR that makes +200 BHP and has a 6 speed gearbox" can't lap Goodwood any faster than my 7 year old 120ps MGF with a 5-speed gearbox?

Real world performance anyone? Want to know the real meaning of motoring fun?

Answers on a post card to the usual address... ;o)

Personally, I'm looking foward to trying this new ZS SE beastie out. :o)
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 23/06/2003 and 26/06/2003

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