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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - ZT review on Channel Four's 'Driven' Tuesday night
|How many people saw Driven on Channel 4 last night?|
They had a member of 'Joe-public' drive and rate a ZT-190. The chap is clearly someone who considers performance saloons, and owned a Honda Accord... with somewhat vivid decals- some kind of Falcon on the nose?
Anyway, I watched with interest- the principle of this test was I thought quite clever and novel. Plus I haven't driven this car myself.
The conclusion this chap came to was that the ZT was a little slovenly to turn in, and was more of a comfortable cruiser!
I was somewhat surprised by this conclusion to say the least. Perhaps his Honda sports more mods than the decals or perhaps the MG isn't as sharp as the press have led me to believe?
Two conclusions came to mind- first, a more natural alternative to a sporty Honda would be the ZS180, not the ZT and second, I really must try this car myself!!!
Any ZT owners out there want to comment?
|> Any ZT owners out there want to comment?|
Well, I'm actually a ZS180 owner, but I drove the ZT+190 after my first test drive in the ZS. The extra weight of the car certainly tells in dulling its' responses compared to the ZS - I agree that the ZS may have been more suitable for the chap that reviewed it - but to say that 'it leans like a bus' is unfair. There is some body roll but, for such a large car, it acquited itself remarkably well around the lanes.
I drove it because it was there, expecting that it would confirm my dislike of large cars. After the test drive, I was pleasantly surprised. It is a compromised car, compared to the ZS, but, if you want a car that is a comfortable cruiser but with an ability to put a smile on your face on the right road, I would say that it deserves to be on your short list.
|Ho-Kayyy, I test drove the ZT 190 last Thursday afternoon.|
Lovely car, big, comfy, spacious, excellent handling - FAB wheels 'n' tyres, plenty quick enough (for me). A little body roll but less than I would have expected.
The sales guy asked if I felt it was as quick as the ST200...not really close - BUT the mondeo IS more powerful and has 47k on the clock as opposed to the 300 or so miles on the ZT. I said I expected there wouldn't be Tooo much of a difference on a 15k+ ZT190.
Annyyywwaaayyyy - Honda Accord Type R VS ZT 190. What an unfair comparison. At the risk of upsetting everyone with Honda drivel AGAIN - The Type R's a 2.2 4 pot VTEC kicking out 212 BHP, weighs about half a ZT, has torsion bars all over the place (which is why I couldn't replace mine), a titanium gear knob (small light 'n' low on the shaft.
All in all, it's more powerful, lighter quicker and better handling than a ZT - in fact it's more powerful and more screamy than any of the Z cars. The only fair comparison that could be made would be on cost and equipement. The Accord I would have thought is much closer to the ZS than any of the others, but still they're miles apart.
Blimey - next someone'll compare the ZR 105 with the Civic Type R.
Let us not forget one of the MG Traits - Affordable fast motoring - I think that's right.
|Similar thoughts occured to me, then at the end they said they would be pitching the ZS against the Seat Cordoba and Skoda something (i.e. they weren't going to feature the same car two weeks running). Now that would be a bad one to come third in.|
Drivel also persist in their 'Time Exposed to Danger' lorry overtaking test whilst talking about motorways - totally irrelevant. It would be more applicable to two-lane roads - if it weren't so difficult to get past anything in anything in large parts of the country these days.
|I confess as soon as I saw the ridiculous car the guy owned, I thought here is a man with a taste by-pass and he ain't going to like the ZT. |
How can anyone hope to be taken seriously if they drive around in a car with a parrot painted all over it?
I did notice that his better half clearly thought the ZT was better.
|> Similar thoughts occured to me, then at the end they|
> said they would be pitching the ZS against the Seat
> Cordoba and Skoda something (i.e. they weren't going
> to feature the same car two weeks running). Now that
> would be a bad one to come third in.
They are comparing it to the Seat Leon 20VT and the Skoda Octavia RS. It's a bit odd to choose two cars with the same engine for the test, but there we go. Having considered a 20VT but gone for the ZS, it will be an interesting test. Here are my predictions:
Drivability: Will mention the relatively recalcitrant gear shift and spongey brake pedal of the ZS, but it will beat the other two anyway.
Practicality: ZS has more room than the Leon and the Octavia has a strut brace behind the rear seats so the ZS wins again.
Desirability: The age of the ZS design will count against it, along with the spoiler perhaps. The badges may mean that it beats the Skoda but the Leon wins.
Cost of ownership: Higher consumption of the V6 plus lower residuals due to the uncertainty over the future of MGR give the ZS the highest running costs followed by the Skoda with the Seat being cheapest to run.
Overall: Leon wins, ZS just beats the Skoda into third. Jason Plato is relieved that ZS didn't win again!
|Ohhhh Patrick, careful or I could get all defensive. I didn't see the program, but what's all this about the Parrot paint job ?|
Apart from the (some might describe it as) ott rear spoiler the Accord Type R is a FAB car.
|We both watched Driven the other night and both thought of the couple testing the ZT "Pricks". Sorry if you read this thread but come on, deliver your muffins in a van and drive a car for pleasure. Your Honda looks stupid anyway.|
|Nik & Anita|
|Nik and Anita, I didn't see the program the other night, and you've totally lost me. What have I missed ?|
|...and I wouldn't be toooo critical of Honda. After all, your lovely shiny new ZS180 does contain a few bits from Honda's 15 year old parts bin...|
|I did see the DRIVEN programme last evening and as soon as the Honda driver opened his mouth I got the immediate impression he'd be determined to give the car the thumbs down. So, my thoughts and gut reaction were exactly the same as Patrick, London WROTE earlier in this thread. Bit of a pointless comparison these two cars I thought. "Honda" man appeared to really struggle to compliment the ZT but he grudgingly did towards the end of the item and in so doing, revealed on of the superior qualaties of the ZT. His long round trip to Wales was less tiring for him than it would be in his skitty Honda .... exactly! (That is a K not an H by the way).|
Nik & Anita, Shrewsbury WROTE:
<< We both watched Driven the other night and both thought of the couple testing the ZT "Pricks".>> Bit of a strong observation this Nik and Anita but probably accurately nearer the mark ... :o))
My family and I attended the filming for the Driven MG-ZS180 comparison test at Snetterton Race Track back in August. This is due to be shown in next week's Driven programme (Tuesday Channel 4 ). Unless it ends up on the cutting room floor, there's a chance that my favourite Silver Leaf MG Montego will be famous for 15 seconds ..... :o)) This was used during some of the filming for "then and now" MG saloon comparisons.... something like "last time Rover put an MG badge on a saloon this was the best they could come up with.." I went along expecting some adverse comments about the old MG Montegos and Maestros but none materialised. I found the three presenters, Jason Plato (now British Touring Car Champion), Mike Brewer and Penny Mallory all friendly, charming and approachable - unlike some TV motoring types I could mention. They allowed me to take numerous photographs whilst they were working and when my Minolta noisily went into fast auto-rewind at the end of the film, it spoilt one of their best "takes". They took it in their stride and did it again with a smile after my apology ... :o)) Nice people. There was also a Honda there on that day but I dont know when that will appear. Maybe in a later programme.
|P.S. In case anyone gets the wrong impression, I like Hondas - owned several and have one in my garage at the moment but it only has two wheels and Honda wing motifs on the tank sides .... :o)).|
Would have much preferred the Honda - ARG partnership to continue and BMW never become involved. Said that at the time of the BMW involvement too and predicted then that it would all end in tears ..... delighted some of the company remains as MG-R to continue to make cars I like .... and I still regard them as British which for me, will always be a bonus.
|>>Would have much preferred the Honda - ARG partnership to continue and BMW never become involved. Said that at the time of the BMW involvement too and predicted then that it would all end in tears .....delighted some of the company remains as MG-R to continue to make cars I like .... and I still regard them as British which for me, will always be a bonus.<<|
In the Honda times, Rovers were only rebadged Honda's !!
I agree they had a british character, but this was only created by the leather/wood trimming.
BMW at least tried to do something out of Rover.
And if it failed, it's always easier to blame the others.
|>Annyyywwaaayyyy - Honda Accord Type R VS ZT 190. What >an unfair comparison. At the risk of upsetting >everyone with Honda drivel AGAIN - The Type R's a 2.2 >4 pot VTEC kicking out 212 BHP, weighs about half a >ZT, has torsion bars all over the place (which is why >I couldn't replace mine), a titanium gear knob (small >light 'n' low on the shaft.|
>All in all, it's more powerful, lighter quicker and >better handling than a ZT
Being an ex-'F' owner (thats why I know about this BB) and now I own a Type R Accord. Both me and my mate bought brand new 'F's and ran them for approx 12-18 months before I decided to change for something a little different. My Mate skippy pondered for sometime deliberating between ZT190 and BMW 325i. After much time and deliberation he plumped for the ZT cause it was basically the same spec but 3K less. Anywho, the point to this is that because I had bought a Type 'R' it was compared down to the last detail against the ZT190. I think the above statement posted by my name sake is quite way off. If you look on paper the two have almost identical 0-60 times, top speeds, and have very similar dimensions, the Type R is not half the weight of a ZT, it weighs 130kgs less (which is 10%). On paper these cars are very very closely matched, the Honda only wins by very small margins, I think it would be a wicked test to put both of them side by side in a drag race. The list price of the ZT is also slightly cheaper than the type R. Hmmm so why did I buy the Type R ? Well the VTEC party piece is something else, and the handling is very sharp indeed, think it really comes down to personal preference in the end to what you want. Not driven a ZT in anger yet, so couldn't really give an acurate comparison to handling, might ask my friendly MG Rover dealer for a test thrashing !
Just one last note to say that I think its a very good sign that a known BMW lover has plumped for a british car again when he could have just gone and bought a well know reliable piece of german engineering.
|Sorry Kieron, I can't verify the weight yet, but I was slightly exagerating to emphasise a point. As for performance however, the Accord hits 62 in 6.9 and the ZT hits 60 in 7.8. in my book that ain't nearly identical.|
Muffins was this chaps business and he delivers them in his Honda!
|Fabrice, Belgium WROTE: (some snipped)|
<< In the Honda times, Rovers were only rebadged Honda's !! >>
Only partially true .... If you ever get the opportunity, lift the bonnet on a Rover 600 ti, have a look inside and then tell me that Rover T16 turbo power unit is just badge engineering ..... DOH!
Plus, the Maestro and Montego first appeared when, '83-84, after the Triumph (Honda) Acclaim. Were they rebadged Hondas too with all those A, R, S and O series power plants? Were all the subsequent ARG K series engine variants in later Metros, Rovers etc Honda rebadged efforts? Was the K series a Honda product? Oh yes, BTCC championship winners in 1982 and what about the MG Metro 6R4 with that fabulous V6 engine - all rebadged Hondas apparently ......
Mutter, mutter, why are some people so determined to perpetuate these inaccuracies .... :o))
On that basis all Ferraris are rebadged Fiats, or could have been rebadged Fords if old Henry's company had got it's way back when ..... hey, they're going to put Ford engines in future MGs .... let's not go there tonight its late ... :o))
Hey ho, dont you just love the weekend - time for a bit of shut eye .... late to bed and late to rise unless the sun shines all day again like it did on Friday. Hope so - might get the old turbo going again .... bet it starts first go ... always does.
|Accentuate the positive John, Some Fords are now fitted with MG Rover engines. Therefore all Fords are just re-badged MG's|
|If you want to know the results of Driven's tests, then go to www.Channel4.com and go to Driven Web page and road tests. You will see that MG ZS180 gets 3 out of 5 and both skoda and seat get 4 out of 5. |
I just wish that British journalists approached road tests with exactly the same attitude as their French, Italian and German counterparts. IE wrap themselves in the national flag and think about French German Italian jobs etc.
But in Blighty this isn't PC. Doesn't matter that UK won't have any manufacturing industry left in a few years, so long as as our euro chums are happy.
Still everyone can all work part time at Mcdonalds.
Going to bed now I've had my moan.
I knew about all these "details" (some are not really "details"). Not to mention diesel engines, etc. (Perkins and VM, IIRC ?)
A new car takes several years to be engineered, esp. back in the 80's, so it's obvious that the Montego and Maestros have nothing to do with Honda's. The Triumph Acclaim hasn't been "engineered", it's like the Mazda "Ford" 121. I don't know the origin of the 6R4 powerplant ; isn't it a race engine ? It's the same in the XJ220 (with turbo's), isn't it ?
I suppose you will agree that stating in a few words : "In the Honda times, Rovers were only rebadged Honda's !!" is more accurate than inaccurate.
And I said that in a certain context : it was to compare BMW's and Honda's approaches. A Rovezr 620si is far closer from an former Honda Accord 2.0i than a Rover 75 2.0i from a BMW 320i. Nuff said.
|Fabrice and ProMGR,|
Maybe "Nuff said" for you but, I need to say a just little more .... :o).
I did stress ROVER 600 TI (Turbo Injection) and NOT the 620si you mention which does appear a Rover variant of the Accord. However, I also said lift the bonnet/hood/engine cover of the 600 TI and look at THAT engine. Very little Honda content there and this was one occasion when an MG badge really did merit fixing to a Rover.
Hey a kindred spirit!! Reassuring and glad to know at least one other True Brit has been paying attention in recent years .... :o))
Wish I could have got some odds from a bookmaker on the results of that three car evaluation .... what's a racing certainty Dad? Shaddup and get on with your homework ..... :o))
Be intetresting to see what they actually do say about the cars on Channel 4 tomorrow night. To be fair, will reserve judgemet until then.
Any road up, having seen all the three cars "in the flesh" at Snetterton, it's worth repeating that to this observer, by far and away the BEST LOOKING of the three ia the ZS180 - no contest. I think Joe Punter will see it that way too. Much depends on which yardstick you use of course, or where you put the goalposts. Having experienced a fully run-in ZS180, if those two very ordinary looking other cars do really merit a better score than the MG, then they must be something exceptional which I doubt is the case.
What's predictable mean Dad? .....
This thread was discussed between 10/10/2001 and 15/10/2001
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