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MG MGA - 1500/1600

I picked up a parts car that's pretty far gone but has a 1600 in it. How common are these? Rare or a dime a dozen? Worth more than a 1500? I may be able to trade it for something I need.
Wray Lemke

Hi Wray. I think the 1600 is probably now the most common of the pushrod MGA engines. The 1622 would be the most rare pushrod model. The 1500 would likely fall in the middle. The non Pushrod twin cam engine is extremely rare and valuable. Cheers! Glenn
Glenn


Glenn / Wray,

The twin cam unit aside, my understanding is that the 1600 engine is the rarest.

The 1500cc MGA was produced in larger numbers than either the 1600 MKI or MKII versions, and the engine was used in a number of other British vehicles in one form or another (eg. MGZA Magnette, Wolseley 1500).

Whilst the 1600MKII is the rarest of all pushrod MGA's, I also understand that the 1622cc unit was subject to badge engineering.

As far as I can recall, the 1600 engine was unique to the MGA.

Cheers

Steven
Steven

Hi,

I agree with Steven. If I remember well, the 1600 engine is the same as the TC engine, but without the twin cam. The engine was unique to the MGA. It was too expensive to keep the 1600 engine, and therefor it was replaced by the 1622 cc unit that was also used in other cars.

Koen
Koen Ackermans

Koen, Steven, you are both absolutely right.According to Neil Cairns in his highly informative book "Engines for MG's" quote: "By April 1958 the MGA needed a boost in power and the B-series (engine) was recored giving the cylinders thicker walls, allowing it to be bored out to 1588 cc. The engine was otherwise unchanged from the 1489 cc BP15GD. It was called the MGA 1600, and the cylinder block was (also) bored to this 1588 cc for the mga twin cam engine, this capacity is unique to MG as no other marque used it"
To be complete: engine prefix for an MGA 1600 should be "16GA" and for the Twin Cam "BC16GB". Estimated number produced: 2111 TC's plus 31501 1600's = 33612 engines (plus of course a batch of Goldseal exchange units, engine prefix 48G157R)
The other 1500 and 1622 cc engines are not unique to the MGA and indeed also found in Austin/Morris/Wolseley and Riley saloons and what to think of the Hindustan Ambassador !!!
So it's a rare BMC-B series engine but it's a fairly common MGA-engine... 8^)
Cheers ! Nick, 63midget/52 TD and divorced (from my 59 MGA).
D.G.J. Herwegh

I understand also that the change from 1500 to 1600 coincided with a change in the racing regulations. The Twin Cam was brought in at that point. By the time the 1622 was brought in, they had decided not to directly support racing in the interests of economy.
Dan Smithers

Koen,
While the 1600 (1588cc) pushrod and 1600 twin cam engines share the same bore and have '1600' cast into the left front of the block, they are very different castings. It was not a matter of taking the same raw casting and just machining it differently. The twin cam has narrower main bearing saddles than the 1600, which are almost the same as the 1622. So the rarest MGA production block should be the twin cam 1600 with probably less than 3000 cast (allowing for factory replacement engines plus production with about one half going to the US). The pushrod 1600 is a distant second with 30,000+ made but the vast majority came to the US, probably 80% or more. The 1622 was used in a wide range of BMC products well into the 60s but I have no idea of the totals but they should be well in excess of the 1600, however since the MGA MKII was the only BMC product that brought this block to the US they are relatively rare in the US compared to the 1600, so rarity depends on where you are located.

Frank
Frank Graham

Frank,

Mine is assembled in Holland as a CKD and is a 1600 an it has still the original engine in it.
Koen Ackermans

A bit of trivia on this subject; the Nash Metropolitan used the same cylinder head as the MGA 1500 (I've compared casting numbers). I don't know if any other engine parts were shared...

George Goeppner

To continue with the trivia: two versions of the BMC-B series were used in the Nash Metropolitan. The 1200 cc version, engine prefix BP12A (1952-1957), and the 1500 cc version prefix BP15A (1957-1961).Equipped with a single carburettor, they resemble the Austin /Morris units (prefix 15 for Austin and BP15M for Morris). Essentially all blocks and heads are the same EXCEPT for some detail changes which are done by machining. For example: fit larger valves and seats in the head, fit more narrow main bearings in the block etc. etc. Therefor the casting number on the head or block CAN be the same (as they use a "standard" casting) but the end result can vary because of a different way of machining.
Now to return to the Twin Cam/1600 debate: In short the story which I think everybody knows. MG wanted a semi "sports-racer" which could compete with more potent machinery in the "Appendix Class J". The regulations allowed for an extra 100 cc on the standard 1500 cc block. As the counterweights of the crankshaft went within one/sixteenth of an inch of the camshaft, lengthening the stroke was not possible. So they had to enlarge the bore. As the cylinder walls were pretty thin already (they went from a bore of 65.5 mm in the 1200 to 73 mm in the 1500), they had to re-core the water jackets. For this reason they had to make a new casting; now it could be bored out to 75.4 mm in order to attain 1588 cc. This casting was used in the Twin Cam first. Indeed with more narrow main bearings than the normal 1500 because the TC used another design crankshaft (thicker crank cheeks). When the reputation of the TC became a bit of an embarrassment for MG they started to look around for a successor to the trusty 1500. The solution was typical Abingdon: use the bigger bore 1600 block of the TC and add a 1500 cylinder head/crankshaft etc. All they had to do to the block was machine holes for dipstick and distributor and widen the main bearings.... Or as John Thornley said in Chris Harvey's book " MG The A, B and C" ...."We already had a 1588 cc in the Twin Cam, so we decided to standardise on that capacity"(page 21). The result was the MGA 1600.
I'm pretty sure those castings are the same. To be certain: who can come up with casting numbers of both the TC and the 1600 (thought they were hidden behind the starter)....8^)
Cheers, Nick 63Midget/52 TD.
D.G.J. Herwegh

Casting number on my 16GA block is 12H 2. HTH.
A. W. Risk

This thread was discussed between 06/02/2005 and 09/02/2005

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