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MG MGA - 1622 service
| I have a MkII in for work - a gearbox issue is the main reason. It is one of those cases I wish I had looked a bit harder before giving a fixed upper limit on the work and am now having serious regrets about taking it at all.
On first inspection the synchros are all fine but the clutch is toast - carbon on the bearing is down to the housing and the friction plate down to the rivets. Reverse gear teeth are pitted and broken so it's junk, but the laygear teeth are fine so someone has done a cheap job in here before. The layshaft needs replacing as the case hardening is gone at the normal places. As I pulled the engine it was very clear that oil changes have been neglected as there is sludge under every cover and in every corner. What is the received wisdom on the best way to clean this up without a complete engine dismantling? I have used diesel to clean up the valve gear and the places I can get to, and there is about two litres in the sump now to be drained after remounting the engine. Then I went to remove the timing cover to replace the seal. It had a thick and sticky gasket that took two hours to clean back to a flat surface on both sides - and a felt seal instead of a lipped oil seal, so not original for the engine - and was full of sludge as well. I also noted that the core plug above the oil filter was leaking so have ordered four (if one is shot the others are not far behind). I duly drilled holes in all four to remove, not really paying attention as I did this. the rear three came out easily as expected, but the front one resisted all attempts including the drilled hole being tapped and the application of a stud and a BIG slide hammer. Once I gave up on brute force and drilled it into three pieces could I get it out - 4mm thick and epoxied in place. Two hours work instead of 5 minutes. The worst was the perished rubber washer in place of the upper overflow fibre washer on the rear float chamber, and the gooey float chamber grommets. All are leaking and I am amazed the car didn't catch fire a long time ago.... Feeling very dirty and frustrated...... |
| Dominic Clancy |
| Dominic, I regret the situation you have found yourself in. A minor point, but the change to the rubber timing cover seal was very late in the Mk II series cars. Most have the felt seal still, including, originally, mine, which is chassis 108146 and engine number 16GCUL 7695 Clausager states the change was from engine number 8263. April 1962 |
| T Aczel |
| Hate to say this Dominic, but if the top end of the engine was so badly sludged up, just imagine how bad it will be in the sump, and what state will the bearings, journals, oil pump and the strainer etc be in! (hope you have taken some pics)
I would be inclined to tell the owner what you have found and that rebuilding the engine may be necessary but that this would well beyond the scope of the work you have agreed to do, or even beyond work you are able to do just now. Then at least he will understand that additional work (and costs) will likely be necessary and that he has the choice of how to proceed. Cheers Colyn |
| Colyn Firth |
| A great product I have found for removing old gaskets is https://crcindustries.com.au/products/crc-gasket-stripper-300g-5021.html ensure you wear rubber gloves as it is aggressive stuff, great to dissolve paint also! I would have thought a quote for fixing the clutch/gearbox wouldn't have included any work on the engine. Cheers Mike |
| Mike Ellsmore |
----AND--- Don't breath it--It's a known carcinogen https://crcindustries.com.au/products/media/ds/sds-5021.pdf |
| William Revit |
| Yeah I note that but it is listed as Cat 2 by Safe Work Australia
Category 1A known to have carcinogenic potential for humans (the placing of a substance in Category 1A is largely based on human evidence) Category 1B presumed to have carcinogenic potential for humans (the placing of a substance in Category 1B is largely based on animal evidence), and Category 2 suspected human carcinogens (the placing of a substance in Category 2 is based on evidence obtained from human and/or animal studies but which is not sufficiently convincing to place the substance in Category 1). Mike |
| Mike Ellsmore |
| Well I seem to have turned the corner - everything has been cleaned up and spruced up, and am just waiting on a parts delivery to start reassembly. I am doing this job as a favour for a friend who has fallen on hard times, so my stock of good but used parts is being depleted at last.
I found that the clutch fork had no bushing left on one side, literally completely worn away, but no wear on the bolt at all, and it has been bent to the point that the release bearing is a very tight fit. Into the scrap pile it goes, and I get lucky in the cellar finding a replacement in minutes. I also spotted that the large bolt at the bottom of the engine mount was missing both sides. The engine ran and had good oil pressure, so I hope the cleaning is not going to cause other problems to surface. Should run a bit better when the HT leads are good and it isn't running so lean |
| Dominic Clancy |
| Well you are a really good friend to him Dominic, you must have saved him around a £1000 so far, fair play to you!
As for solvents, I once used some spare Trichloretheline solvent to clean out some Honda motorbike sponge air filters. Once they were clean (and they were very clean),I left them out in the sunshine for a few hours so the solvent would evaporate away. Then I refitted them and started up the bike in the garage with door wide open and the rear of the bike sticking outside into the open air. When the bike started up, a cloud of dense white smoke came out of the exhaust pipes and drifted away from the garage door until a gust of wind blew it back inside. The next thing I knew I was flat on my back on the garage floor, unable to breathe. Fortunately the wind direction changed and I was eventually able to crawl away from the bike. it took quite some time for me to be able to breathe properly and when I checked on Trichloretheline later I found out that the white smoke contained dangerous levels of cyanide gas. So I was quite fortunate that day, those solvents can do nasty things and I have never used that stuff since then. Cheers Colyn Mike, I had to delete the s from the hpps to get your links to work |
| Colyn Firth |
| My father was a radar trainer in the navy during the war - they used trichlorethylene to clean down the perspex plotting charts - the first thing he did with a new class of operators is tell them NOT to sniff it - which of course they immediately did ... |
| Chris at Octarine Services |
| Colyn, rather than cyanide it was very likely phosgene gas, which trichloroethylene can decompose into in the presence of heat or arc rays from welding. Don't ask me how I learned this... -Del |
| D Rawlins |
| Wow! Phosgene gas, good thing the wind direction changed then! IIRC, Phosgene was the gas that was used in WW1 with such horrible consequences. Colyn |
| Colyn Firth |
| Nothing horrible like those gases here. That is why I either use brake cleaner or diesel as neither brings such horrible side effects. The flush of the sump brought a lot of sludge too, so maybe I will again add another litre of diesel to sit overnight and hopefully work on the rest.
Gearbox and engine are back in. I just need to jack up and do all the lower bell housing and manifold bolts, propshaft, gbx extension, fix a leaking clutch slave hose, fit the radiator grille and the dynamo and rad. Fill and start, then refit the tunnel cover and carpets. That will be enough for tomorrow morning. The owner stopped in yesterday just as I was putting the gearbox back in and he could hardly believe the improvement in how everything is looking. |
| Dominic Clancy |
All this with no pictures? c,mon! I thought I was the only one that got zuckered into doing all that work for a friend? I feel better now! lol
 |
| S |
| you want pictures Dr Devine.... here you go Before (well after one quick wipe with an oily rag)  |
| Dominic Clancy |
And with a weeping (well maybe spraying ) core plug - the distributor leads literally fell apart when I went to remove them
 |
| Dominic Clancy |
| The use of solvents is somewhat loaded, as none are good for the user. I generally use kerosene to cut the worse stuff and then switch to lacquer thinner with the caveat that both are flammable, not good to breathe, or get on your skin. Wear gloves. For a final cleaning I generally use soap and hot water. Ultra sound cleaners like those sold a Harbor Freight are inexpensive and work very well with soap and hot water for smaller parts. Great for carbs. On my old Triumph MCs I use an ultra sound cleaner as a final cleaner prior to reassembly of transmissions, valve trains, nuts and bolts, etc or anything else that fits in the cleaner. |
| Bill Haglan |
| and five evenings later ( I have a day job after all) It looked like this as I finished for the night - gbx had new synchros and reverse gear and layshaft and seals have been done all round, new core plugs, new clutch and bushings, used fork, and all cleaned and painted. All carb leaks and perished grommets correctly rectified, broken exhaust manifold stud drilled out and replaced
Hopefully it will run better with dry HT leads and good contacts between the HT leads and cap / coil It could really do with a new distributor cap too, but as it has a 123 I know not what it is or where to get - any info welcome. Why people fit those things in a standard car is beyond me. I may anyway replace it with a good Lucas one out of my cellar....  |
| Dominic Clancy |
| Re- solvents I've been pretty careless over the years with solvents on my hands. About 3 years ago all the nails on my right hand deteriorated and fell out. Only now slowly growing back. Left hand is fine. I think its related! |
| Art Pearse |
| Lucas won't have electronic bottom half or electronic igniter top and won't remain in tune for years on end - but each to their own.
123 Dissy cap - BOSCH: 1 235 522 056 BERU: VK 106 BREMI: 8045 Be very careful of cross reference database information for these numbers from other manufacturers or supplies as there tend to be lots of errors. Bosch and Beru tend to be better quality too, I don't know about Bremi as I've never seen one. http://123ignition.nl/files/manuals/123manual_SWITCH4.pdf |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Thanks for the Bosch cross reference on the cap, should be easy to get at the local factors, so I'll send the owner! My point on the 123 is that I can put a new chinese Lucas repro dizzy with hall effect points into a car for 25% of the price of a 123, and the cap is then standard. The Accuspark dizzy and points work well and are both good quality. |
| Dominic Clancy |
| I thought only the yanks painted MGs with Chevy small block orange! I didnt realize its universal!
You did a nice job on that...car and instillation looks great! Ive got a 1622 down in the cellar I bought for a spare..My 1600 had one in it when I bought the car. Thats whats in it now. I wish i had went for the 1800...but at the time the 1622 seemed a smart idea! To clean I lay down old news papers under the engine...a wooden stick to scrape off the heavy grease,oil and dirt. I use starting fluid to clean up the heavy stuff. (2 cans usually works great...unless you do the transmission too!) Eventually graduate to a series of different wire wheels chucked in a drill to finish up. I find this works great and then you can get to the real work. |
| S |
| 25% of the performance and steadiness of performance.
I don't know about Accuspark electronic dissys so can't comment but I do know some owners have had problems with the spark plugs and formerly HT leads, as I put recently their kit bundles to me seem too well priced not to have corners nipped somewhere, quality control perhaps so majority may be good and a few not or some components of the kit better and more reliable than others. I've bought Accuspark and Powerspark "red rotor" arms and they're fine, good price but not as well made or finished as say the equivalent Bosch or Beru. Same for rotor and dissy cap as for the dissy with me I like fit & forget and no fiddling around to get it back to fine tune, I want it to remain on fine tune without me touching it, not that I'd really know what I was doing. Horses for course but I've had my 123 for 10+ years without hassle and with very good performance, I'd probably try the CSI now though. |
| Nigel Atkins |
| Dominic
You mentioned that you use Brake cleaner without any bad side efects---- Brake cleaner contains Tetrachloroethylene. When this chemical is exposed with excessive heat and argon (used in MIG and TIG welding) it also produces phosgene. So no welding on stuff you've cleaned with it unless it's bone dry and even then ,good ventilation I got caught with from using diesel EGR cleaner , couldn't stand up ,eyesight all over the place, face went badly swollen and the skin on my face all flaked up and peeled overnight Bit of a mess all up, took a couple of months to come right but my eyesight is still milky like looking through smoke all the time-It's gradually improving but that was probably three years or more ago now So Just be carefull----please |
| William Revit |
| I never do any welding, so no danger there. Not allowed since my operation anyway.
The owner collected the car today at the same time Gio picked up my 1622 Betson / Burgess special. It will end up in his MGA Police car which he hopes to get done next year - I expect I will get a gearbox to do for it at some point. One last minute hitch was that the clutch hose crimp started to weep ( I guess it didn't like being disturbed) so I had to replace that too and bleed - Eezibleed to the rescue. When I emptied the old oil into a container for recycling, it just filled a 5 litre container - gearbox oil and engine oil. The drain pan had a lot of sludge too, but after running the engine, the oil pressure was fine and the oil stayed clean after a fifteen minute run, so I seem to have dislodged the worst of it with diesel. Where the two litres of diesel went I have no idea, as that too was drained into the drain pan. It took a full 7 litres between the box and engine to refill. Garage floor cleaned (that's a workout with a mop and bucket) and waiting for the next in the queue - a HEINKEL bubble car for engine and gearbox. But first comes a month on the beach... |
| Dominic Clancy |
| I *thought* the parts I was TIG welding were bone dry. I was obviously mistaken, I still use brake cleaner but not on anything that will ever be subsequently welded on. Plenty of other solvents to use prior to welding... They don't generally work as well but one scare like that was enough. -Del |
| D Rawlins |
| I didnt realize those chemicals would stay on panels being cleaned for so long...Ill keep that in mind Willy and Del. Thanks for posting that...I would have learned the hardway! lol! Dom Any pictures of the HEINKEL bubble? |
| S |
| Will post pics when it gets to me, but as I said, first I have a month on the beach! |
| Dominic Clancy |
| Dominic, A whole month on the beach, you will just have to double check which dangerous solvents are released when when that hot Asian sunshine reacts with your suntan oil?😁 Have a great holiday Colyn |
| Colyn Firth |
| My first car was a Heinkel Bubble car, actually one of the British licence built Trojan ones. I had it given with the engine in a box and sold it a year later for £10. 175cc of pure power. The only instruments were a speedo and a clock - I think the clock meant it was the de-luxe model. No fuel gauge, you ran until the engine stopped and then turned the reserve tank control on. It had a badly cracked rear window, it was plastic, but I managed to get a new one but never got it to fit properly so it regularly popped out.
The front opening door and low seat meant it was not popular with ladies with short skirts. The car seems to have long vanished and I can't now even find a photo of it. Malcolm |
| Malcolm Asquith |
| Amazing!! Must be ESP or something. I was in St. Augustine, FLA, this weekend to walk with about 50 Newfoundland dogs in the St.A Xmas parade and came by this car that I didn't recognize. I thought it might be a Messerschmidt (sp??) but the owner explained it all to me. The fist pic is the car, the second is its lineage and the third is another view of the car. Jud  |
| J. K. Chapin |
The lineage
 |
| J. K. Chapin |
Another pic. This is a four wheel car. Two wheels very close together at the rear. Jud
 |
| J. K. Chapin |
Poor quality pic of interior.
 |
| J. K. Chapin |
It arrived on a truck this morning - in a sorry state
 |
| Dominic Clancy |
more: should have the power train (200 cc ?) out tomorrow
 |
| Dominic Clancy |
| Love it! |
| Graham V |
| Dominic-
great little car thanks for the pics back to solvents- you said- "I never do any welding, so no danger there. Not allowed since my operation anyway. " A shudder went through me when I read that- Took an alloy fitting in to get welded up yesterday and , you guessed it he was using brake cleaner to clean stuff up-------couldn't believe it, I was out of there You said earlier that you don't do welding anymore so it won't effect you---wrong, even just the heat off an exhaust is enough For a bloke like you that has had the operation that you have had , honestly mate you need to stay away from the stuff, once it gets you , you're stuffed, i can't go anywhere near it now or my eyes get bloodshot straight away BE CAREFULL My experiance was giving a diesel van a dose of EGR cleaner, gave it a blowout up the road and returned to the shop to do some work on the rear doors, was standing at the rear with the doors open removing some panels off the doors and just the residual fumes from the exhaust (engine not running) got me and the next thing I knew was I lost all balance and couldn't stand up, ,overnight my face all blew up ,the skin flaked off and my eyesight was smashed---it's been a long trip back, not quite there yet after probably 3 years but getting there Just don't do it-especially carby cleaner down a carb with the carb still on the car stuff like that---do it outside and upwind and go for a decent drive to get rid of the sh@t BE CAREFULL |
| William Revit |
| i dropped the engine today and cleaned it using BBQ lighter fluid. I suspect there are no health hazards here.
I was more than astonished to walk into my local hardware supermarket today with -4C to find BBQ stuff up to the ceiling in the best location - I was thinking MAYBE I would find what I wanted in the darker recessed of the store, but even charcoal was on special offer. Has Global warming already started to have an effect on our special offers, however misplaced. Or is this more a repeat of Christmas starts on 1st October ????? |
| Dominic Clancy |
| I always use paraffin (kerosene) to clean parts and I think Gunk is good but I'm not so keen on the environmental impact of washing it away. |
| John Francis |
| Well all the brake cylinders are shot, either badly pitted or with broken screws deep in the threads, now looking to find a rebuilder - maybe I'll call Peter Caldwell.... |
| Dominic Clancy |
This thread was discussed between 01/12/2019 and 25/01/2020
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