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MG MGA - A genuine 1600 ?

Can I tell from the chassis no. [or some other means] if a car is a genuine 1600. It seems that most As' are advertised as 1600s, maybe they are like Goldstar BSAs, there are more "Goldstars" around than the factory ever produced! Thanks Sean
S Sherry

Certainly they can be identified from the records at Abingdon. This is alos listed in most of the reference books. From "ORIGINAL MGA", any car with a chassis number between 68851 and 100351 inclusive, should be a 1600 (MKI). This will be the number stamped on the frame crossmember and will match the last numbers on the Vehicle ID tag. If they don't match, then the car is like the Goldstars you mentioned.

For cars assembled in Australia, I belive they used a different numbering system but not really sure. I am sure that somebody will fill in the missing parts.

Chuck
C Schaefer

I wonder what might be masquerading as a 1600? A 1500 or a twin-cam? I don't think that there's much else to pass off convincingly as a 1600.

Ken
Ken Korey

Ken,

I presume Sean is referring to a 1500 that has been "upgraded" with a rotten or written off 1600. If all the relevant bits have been added including the chassis plate and paperwork it would be no big deal, but if it's just the rear lights and an MGB front brake conversion, it might be a potential trap for the unwary.

There is a difference in value between the two models.

Sean, the 1600 chassis number (68851 to 100351) is prefixed GHN for non Aussie cars (RHD roadster) or GHNL (LHD roadster) whereas a 1500 will begin HD. If the chassis number is prefixed HM or GHD, then it was (or is) a coupe (more potential to deceive!).

For Australian built cars there should be an assemby number after the chassis number. Hopefully someone can enlighten us as to which number production changed from 1500 to 1600.

It could be interesting to also note the point that Aussie cars changed to MK2 production as that has the same potential for abuse.
Neil McGurk

An Austalian MGA chassis has the number stanped on the left side chassis rail just behind the front wheel.
Im not sure if there is any other definate ways to identify a "bare" chassis 1600 from a 1500. Definatly the body work, lighting and interior its easy to tell.
Quickly looking at the MGAGURU site it would seem tham more 1600 were Aussie built than 1500. So maybe there are more for sale. Look under the CKD section on MGAGURU site.
David.
DJ Lake

As per above, is there anyway definative way to identify a 1500 or 1600 chassis if there is no bodywork or brakes.
David
DJ Lake

David Yes there is. The fixed end mounting for the front brake flex line is different between the 1500 and 1600. There may be some other minor differences. I will have to go thru some photos to find examples.


Chuck
C Schaefer

This is a photo of a 1500. Not the location of the mounting tab welded to the chassis.


C Schaefer

This is a photo of a 1600 chassis. Pay no attention to the drum brakes or the connection of the flex line to the wheel cylinder. That was the way I got the car. The fixed-end mounting tab is welded further inward and lower on the upper spring (what do you call it?) perch. Also note the routing of the hard lines. They are 180 degrees opposite.


C Schaefer

Wow, what a small subtle change between the 1500 and the 1600. Do you think this change happened so the same length flexible hose could continue to be used.
David.
DJ Lake

David,

The hoses have different connections and are not interchangeable!
Neil McGurk

Attached is a diagram of where the chassis number is stamped on both of my Australian CKD 1600's. The Australian build number as Neil refers to is stamped on the firewall shelf adjacent to the fuel line.

I could be wrong, but I somewhere remember reading that 1600MKII chassis had mounting points for seatbelts.

Steven


S HILL

When I converted my 1500 to disc brakes, the main issue was would the flexible brake pipe be long enough to reach from the above mentioned bracket to the altered location of the caliper when compared to a brake cylinder. One of the options was to alter the bracket location, whilst keeping the flexible pipe the same length. I suspect the answer is as simple as that.

Steve
Steve Gyles

If the frame were LH drive there would also be holes drilled and tapped for the dimmer switch. I'm not sure how the dimmer is located on RH cars.
David Werblow

Steven, so this number would be the actual chassis number or is it an Aussie assembly number not consistant with the UK chassis number...non of my current 3 chassis has this number, must all be imports
regards
mark
Mark Mathiesen

Steve
I think you will find that the chassis number is stamped on the left side not the right as your scetch shows Jim.
jim mckenzie

Mark,

On the Australian built CKD cars it is the Abingdon factory chassis number that is stamped on the left, angled upward, chassis frame.
The Australian car number is stamped on the firewall shelf in front of where the heater would be. Australian cars did not normally have heaters.

Mick
Mick Anderson

Just to clarify a few issues.
1.On Australian built CKD's the Abingdon chassis number is only sometimes stamped on the LH side chassis frame, probably less than half of all cars.
2.Australian built CKD's had both the Abingdon chassis number and the Australian build number stamped on the firewall shelf in front of the heater.
3.The model production change over points are the same chassis numbers as for Abingdon built cars, although assembly dates are somewhat later.
4.The production numbers for Australian CKD's were:
928 1550
962 1600MkI
148 1600MkII

Garry
Garry Kemm

Correction to last posting, the production numbers for Australia CKD's should be:
928 1500
976 1600MkI
148 1600MkII

My apologies,
Garry
Garry Kemm

Thanks to all for the clarifacation between the 1500s & 1600s. From Garys' numbers there should only be a small number more 16s than 15s. Me thinks that a lot of of 15s became 16s overnight with a motor change and a disc brake conversion. Thanks again Sean
S Sherry

There is another reason for more 1600's appearing in public. Most of the MGA on the road today have been worked on or "restored" to some extent, even if it is just a repaint. When people buy an MGA to "restore" they are often cognizant of the difference in market value (or performance), and so would rather put their money into a 1600 model rather than a 1500.

In production numbers 1500's outnumber 1600's about 2 to 1. For my first attendance at NAMGAR shows in 1988 and 1989, 1600's outnumbered 1500's almost 2 to 1. I don't think very many of them had been converted at that time. It is more likely just a result of the preference for restoring 1600's over 1500's (and using 1500's for parts cars).
Barney Gaylord

This thread was discussed between 03/04/2008 and 07/04/2008

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