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MG MGA - Aftermarket vs Recored Original Radiator?

I'm soliciting opinions as to whether or not to buy an original radiator and have it rebuilt/recored versus getting an aftermarket one.

What is your experience and/or recommendations? Any "gotchas"?

Thanks,
Larry
MGA Larry

Larry

My opinion is that the original design was the optimum design to provide sufficient cooling for the car. Many, but not all, modern core designs provide insufficient cooling and are the root cause of many of the over heating threads we see in this forum.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I recore the original when possible. The original type core is available.
R J Brown

Original type cell core radiators are difficult to find now. For photos of original cell cores see here:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/cooling/cool_100.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/cooling/cool_100a.htm

As far as I know there is only one company in North America making a replacement cell core, the parts are expensive, and they don't want to deal with retail customers. See here: http://www.maineradiator.com

These days radiator shops like to install VT type cores (Vertical Tube core). They can increase number of tubes front to back, decrease spacing between tubes, more tubes for more water flow, and decrease fin spacing (increase density). Problem is, at some point the increased density begins to restrict air flow more than improving heat transfer, and then it gets heavier and less efficient.

I have done this a couple of times with different core patterns, and I don't think any of it cools as well as the original cell core. This is probably why so may MGA have cooling problems in recent years.
Barney Gaylord

After many attempts at resolving a overheating problem on my 1500, I had the original radiator re-cored with a 5 pass core. No more overheating in Florida. I found the fan was worse than nothing. It restricted air flow.
Bob Wrenn

I purchased a Moss replacemnet radiator about 3-4 years ago and have had zero problems. There are very slight differences that are hard to distinguish from the original. The metal builder's tag can be removed from the original and reattached to the new radiator with ease. The fit was perfect and very straight forward. My original radiator had been recored so it was not the original core and probably not as original. I think the purchase of the new radiator was money well spent.
David Holmes

What are the opinions about an after market all Aluminum Radiator ? expensive I know but should cool the engine much better. Tom
Tom Peotter

Tom,
Why would you think that the aluminum radiator would cool better? Heat transfer is generally better with the original bras/copper construction than with aluminum. Aluminum makes for a lighter lump, but not necessarily better cooling. I spent the bucks a couple of years ago to re-core the radiator for my 72 midget. The shop used the latest high-density core, something like "HVT". It has worked very well with much better cooling than the original.
David "keeping my cool" Lieb
David Lieb

As I don't have an old radiator to pull a tag off of, is anyone making replacement builder's tags?
MGA Larry

I have owned several MGA's and have two restored 1600's (roadster and coupe) which I have owned for about 30 years! Some years ago, in response to owner complaints, an Australian core manufacturer recalled the tubular/finned cores that they had been supplying and had cellular replacements (as original) fitted free of charge. I availed myself of this offer. In essence, this did not cure the overheating problems inherent in MGA's. I think that MGA overheating problems are mainly due to insufficient air flow through the radiator (MGA Mk11's had an air-dam arrangement and MGB's an "over-vertical" grille). The only way that I have found effective is to have the radiator rodded out and thoroughly cleaned every 3 or 4 years and this temporarily overcomes the overheating problem.
Barry Bahnisch

I had three repro radiators fail in less than 18 months, and rejected another immediately on receipt. The original radiator recore lasted 15 years after the car's restoration before it started to leak, and the redone recore of that same original has now lasted three years without problems.

If you have a decent local radiator recorer, go with the original every time. The chinese repros are absolute rubbish in comparison, the faults on mine being: twice starting to leak at the solder bubble on the upper tank on the front side directly opposite the filler neck, and the third one failed because the filler neck was poorly formed and split from top to bottom under pressure. Another was returned without fitting because the filler neck was also deformed (it's much thinner than the original)-
dominic clancy

Barry

Do you have any details and/or pictures of the MK II air dam arrangement?

Thanks

Larry
58 A
Lawrence Hallanger

Larry, What I meant was the Mk 11 radiator shell design is such that air is dammed to pass through the vertical slats instead of the more "streamlined" or "faired" shape of the earlier models which, I believe, allows the air to pass over. I think that the rather ugly Mk11 shell was designed to channel more air through the core (why else!). Another clue is that despite the large diameter trunking mounted just behind the slats, it is necessary to have the heater blower going for any noticeable quantity of warm air to enter the cabin!
Barry Bahnisch

I had my radiator re-cored last spring by a local shop. They ordered what I believe was call a V-Core from Maine Radiator (see Barney's post). It was expensive ($340 if I remember) but does it ever work great. The shop told me they only do one run a month of these cores. Drove it from New York State to Seven Springs last year. Went back a forth to Pittsburg twice. 95 degree days, climbing hills at 65 mph...highway runs...never got above 190 with a 180 thermostat. Stock system with no shroud. I love it!

GTF
G T Foster

I do not want to labour the point but I think that the comment 190 with a 180 thermostat says it all. The MGA cooling system is so marginal (for whatever reason) that even with a new radiator they will not stay at the thermostat temperature. As I have said, with a completely clean radiator (which of course they had when new) they will tolerate warm/hot weather (such as we get in Oz, in contrast to the UK) but everything has to be 100%. Most cars, even UK ones like my wife's new Mini (with little radiator mounted on the side under the mudguard), the needle quickly went to "normal" or somesuch and never went a fraction above that in the 17 years that we had it whatever the weather!
Barry Bahnisch

MGA Larry,
Sent my original '58 honeycomb core radiator (from the coupe) last month for checking out through the local MG parts stockist/service shop, and it came back with a new tubular core. Cost was about $250.
My '56 has a recored tubular radiator, and I find that timing and mixture are the mopst significant factors to prevent overheating.
I would recommend the fan shroud sold for about $45, as this does help at low speeds, or when waiting in line at the border! Have this fitted to the roadster and will get one for the coupe soon. The one I have is steel, but I see they are plastic now - argh!
Peter.
P. Tilbury

Hi Larry,
I got the Moss rad and installed it last summer. Check my link for some pics and comments.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/davevans/rad/index.htm

In the pictures you can see the difference between the old and new cores.

The new rad works quite well. I also back-flushed the block and turned my fan the right way round. Now my "A" sits right on 190 all the time. Like the others say, if everything is just right you won't have any cooling problems.
Dave
David M Evans

Funny, I bought a new one from Moss and the drain cock fit with no problem. I have been driving now for three years and have had no issues. I also utilize the Moss plastic shroud which works great with it.
WMR Bill

Dave,
Your "original" drain cock looks different from the ones I have on my 56 and 58 cars.Maybe it was changed by the PO.
Overflow pipe on both mine is a rubber hose. Did you fit a new rad cap (7 lbs)?
Love the photo with the rad fluid drip!
Peter.
P. Tilbury

My original '58 radiator (which I had recored) has the overflow pipe down the side as original and the identical drain cock Dave has. My '60 parts car also has the same overflow and drain cock.

Jim
Jim Ferguson

I think that the number of years with no problems with the Moss repros is fine, but the key is how many miles in those years and how much in hot weather with heavy traffic.

I now have 4 years and about 20,000 miles on the Moss/Chinese radiator.

My worst situations were in Key West in the parade where we had 85 deg and sat motionless for a minute or five at a time. Some had to pull off the parade, while I and others barely made it through.

Hills and hot weather and traffic at 7 Springs and going back through NY city traffic same thing.

In most local driving, with no prolonged stop and go, the temps stay below 210 - no problem to me (or to Barney from what I read on his website). On the move, at speed, never above 200.

But, the repros are not as good as an original - and I wish I still had the one we had when we bought the car in 1968 and drove through NY traffic "back in the day".

- Ken
Ken Doris

I think that the number of years with no problems with the Moss repros is fine, but the key is how many miles in those years and how much in hot weather with heavy traffic.

I now have 4 years and about 20,000 miles on the Moss/Chinese radiator.

My worst situations were in Key West in the parade where we had 85 deg and sat motionless for a minute or five at a time. Some had to pull off the parade, while I and others barely made it through.

Hills and hot weather and traffic at 7 Springs and going back through NY city traffic same thing.

In most local driving, with no prolonged stop and go, the temps stay below 210 - no problem to me (or to Barney from what I read on his website). On the move, at speed, never above 200.

But, the repros are not as good as an original - and I wish I still had the one we had when we bought the car in 1968 and drove through NY traffic "back in the day".

- Ken
Ken Doris

This thread was discussed between 13/03/2009 and 29/03/2009

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