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MG MGA - Alternate Wire Wheels

On my Mga Coupe I have 48 spoke wire wheels. Out of couriosity I am wondering if there are any type of alternate ....knock-off solid steel rims. Not the type that bolt on to the car but a real knock-off type rims. The reason I ask, is I am trying to value the cost of #1 having my wire wheels rebuilt and trued #2 buying a complete new set of wire wheels or #3 an alternate type of knock-off rims.

I recall see on Ebay one time a set of steel wheels that had been modified to accept knock off center hubs, thus creating a solid rim knock-off wheel.

Thanks Gordon
Gordon Harrison

Gordon, nothing I've seen available, but I understand there are some people working on a design. Cheapest solution would be to find a used set of TR6 72 spoke wires and use these for normal driving and get your 48s rebuilt and ready for shows.
Bill Young

Gordon,

Not that I think that this would be a cheaper way to go but aren't you describing the solid steel knock-off wheels used on the twincam?

Randy Myers
'59 roadster, coupe
Randy

Randy
Am I wrong but are those rims not bolt on type with a fake spinner. If you are right,it would not be the least expensive way to go.

Bill, would you have a name of the company doing the developemnt of those rims?

My object here is that my present rims are the origional ones with the car and the wheel guy has said they are in need of a truing. That's OK but I picture having to have the wheels completely remade , so I might as well investigate the other possabilities first.

Some one once told me maybe LOTUS ELAN S3 knock-offs ????

thanks Gordon
Gordon Harrison

Gordon, there was not a company involved as I remember, just someone who posted on one of the MG bulletin boards said he was working on a design. Hopefully if he gets the problems sorted he'll put them on the market. The Twin Cam wheels are pin drive, not spline drive and won't work. I'm not sure about the Lotus wheels, but most of the knock off steel or alloy wheels I've seen on British cars are also pin drive. About the only solid wheel option when keeping the spline hubs is the MiniLite type knock off. Hap Waldrop, who posts regularly on the MG Experience BB owns a speed shop in N. Carolina and is a Superlite dealer. He's worked with them to develop a knock off that doesn't have the large center steel hub showing as much as the type sold by Moss or VB. Photos on http://www.acmespeedshop.com/wheels.html No connection to Hap, just happened to know about this option.
Bill Young

Bill
Pretty wheels. Might just be what I want, but will base my decision on what it cost for a new set of wire wheels and what it costs to have my old one rebuilt and trued. Gordon
Gordon Harrison

You can always buy the minilite replicas, they are setup for knockoffs and look nice.
John H

Gordon, from what I've read it almost costs as much to clean and true your wheels as to buy new ones, at least painted ones. The 48 spoke wheels are known to be fairly weak and require more frequent maintenance than the 60 or 72 spoke wheels. The 60 spoke was an option on the MGA, so could be considered correct for your car. Of course the 72 spoke wheel is the strongest wire commonly available and what I chose for my car. The TR6 wheels fit the A well and don't look too out of place. If you drive a lot I'd seriously consider at least the 60 spoke wheel if you don't go for the Superlites as these will give far more reliability than the 48s.
Bill Young

You can get heavy duty 48-spoke wire wheels from Dayton. They call them "maintenance-free" and that's exactly what they are. I have a set on my A and they are pretty much bomb proof, short of racing on them.

I've seen solid wheels with splines but they were very pricey. I believe someone manufactures them for vintage Jaguars. The price was around $1500 a set IIRC.
Steve Simmons

Steve
Any chance you could put a ball park figure on what you "maintenance free" wheels set you back. And does anybody have a ball park fiqure on the cost of retruing
a set of "not bad" spoke wheels. Gordon
Gordon Harrison

superlites www.packracingproducts.com no relation they advertise in www.grassrootsmotorsports.com
whipteachr

I am have a set of Morgan wires on my 57 coupe they are 60 spoke & 4 1/2" wide and worke great.
Jones

Gordon, I don't know about service in Canada, but here are two here in the US that could give you quotes for the work, there are others but I can't think of them at the moment. http://www.britishwirewheel.com/
http://www.hendrixwirewheel.com/
As I understand the 'normal' service for a wire wheel is to disassemble, clean, replace any bad or all spokes if there is thought to be age related brittelness,(most shops replace all the spokes and nipples both because it's quicker to just cut out the old spokes and there are fewer complaints about future problems using new components) and then reassemble and true. A lot of labor. Moss wants $210 each for new 48 spoke wheels, and with that you get all new components already trued.
Bill Young

Was out driving yesterday and at 65/68 mph it starts to shimmy. I guess mt best bet,after looking at my options is to have the old ones rebuilt or buy new ones. Trouble with the rebuild is in Canada you always have ...US dollar exchange...shipping...customs duties and the most common of all....well I can't tell you how much until you ship me the wheels. Might as well just buy new ones and try and sell the old ones as spare tire rims. Gordon
Gordon Harrison

Gordon, I'd call Octagon in Vancouver so you have someone on this side of the border to deal with.

They sell Dunlop and Dayton. I'd suggest getting 60 spoke as they stand up much better than the 48 ever did.

If your hubs are worn, don't even bother putting new wheels on without replacing the hubs as you would just trash them and then have to replace both again.

Or you could go for the newly available alloy rim Dunlop Twincam wheels - converting your suspension and buying new wheels shouldn't cost much more than around 5K......:-)
Bill Spohn

PS - Octagon is 604-253-4145
Bill Spohn

Found an interesting product. New and apparently introduced a SEMA it appears to be the answer to my/our Mga spoke wheel problems.

Let me explain why. Last night, after reading Barneys website I make a fixed pointer and checked the run out on my driver frt rim. It came within the acceptable measurements from Barney. So just for trial and error,I added a 1/4 oz weight(in between the two already on the rim) and went for a drive . 3000...3200...3500...and finally 3800 RPM before any shake. Really cool. The extra weight made quite a difference. To bad there is not a free rolling tire weight. !!!! BUT WEIGHT (sorry wait). There is.

Well this is where the new product comes in...XACTBALANCE. It is a new type of tire weight (in various weights and lenghts) that is really a hollow tube containing a specific size weight. It glues to the rim in the required spot of inbalancement, but the weight is able to rotate in the tube. Therefore the old style weight might be 1 inch off perfect location these new type weights offer automatic adjustments. It can seek out the minute difference required for perfect balance.

Look them up on the web.. XACTBALANCE wheel weights. They are made by IMI Products. These will not replace a properly trued spoke wheel but will allow compensation for the small ...misses...when installing regular weights.

Now if I only can find out where to buy some. Gordon
Gordon Harrison

Gordon, glad to know that your wheel problems may only be balance. A lot easier to address than new wheels. Most shops don't know how to mount wires on their machines to get an accurate balance, the proper procedure is shown in the VB catalogs http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/mga/0087.asp
Bill Young

As Bill S. has said, go for the 60 spoke wires. 48 are too weak to use with radials particularly if you need to make that "panic" turn.
David Werblow

Gordon,

Xactbalance looks really great, brilliant idea. They are on the web @ imiproducts.com and have a locator tab. Great thread, very helpful.

Randy Myers
'59 roadster, coupe
Randy

Here we are, Gordon
Gordon Harrison

Gordon

I have seen similar systems over the years but none of them have caught on big time.

Check out the "Equal" tab on the same home page for another alternative, without having to glue anything to your rim.

If anyone has actually used any of these "dynamic tire balancing" products please let us know your experiences.

FWIW

Larry
58 MGA
72 MGBGT
Larry Hallanger

I tried to post a picture of the item but I and my computer are to old. Maybe someone else can.
I like the principal of the product because it is discrete...makes up for slight discrepencies in the balancing and automatically adjusts for inbalance of the wheel and tire.

The problem is, that they are extremely hard to find. Contacting the company is not producing any results.

Does anyone know where I could buy some of these weights?

Thanks gordon
Gordon Harrison

Here


dominic clancy

Larry, took a look at the "equal" product. Interesting, but I wonder if it is compatable with tubes?
Bill Young

Gordon,

I just called the local area representative listed on their site about xactbalance. They are sold in kits that have a variety of sizes and weights for a vast array of cars and are intended to be sold to and used by tire shops during the spin balancing process. He had not used them yet so could not comment on their effectiveness.

Randy Myers
'59 roadster, coupe
Randy

Dominic Thanks for the pic.

Randy, I have been trying to find someone who has them and so far nothing. Apparently they are so new , nobody has them yet. This does not bother me as I would be willing to "experiment" with them if I could find some.

Bill, According to the info offerred, they will work with tube tires. They are just like normal wheel weights only the weight is inside a tube and the tube attaches to the rim. The weight can them move to the EXACT proper postion too correct the imbalance.

Thanks everyone

Gordon.
Gordon Harrison

Bill

Some 16+ years ago when I lived in Hawaii there was a tire sealant product based on ethylene glycol and kevlar strands that was used in the tires of various trucks and other vehicles that was supposed to also dynamically balance the wheel. A quick web search didn't turn up anything like this. Same principle as the "Equal" product but using the fluid to balance and adding the leak repair capability. If anyone knows anything about either of these products please speak up.

Thanks

Larry
Larry Hallanger

I have addressed an email directly to IMI Products asking for info regarding where these "weights" are available. I also mentioned this discussion board for their review.

If their product is as they say then, this is a great new way to balance wheels. Yes there have been lots of others,,,Dyna Beads....Equal...Centramatic wheel rings etc. The simple basics of these weights seems to me to be logistical and simple.

Now if I can only find out where to get them so I can evaluate them and report back, we will have our answer.
Gordon
Gordon Harrison

Well, speaking as a skeptical Mechanical engineer, I think you'll find them on the shelf right next to the 150MPG carburetors.
Derek Nicholson

To cure your balance problems, check out this site:
www.innovativebalancing.com

They offer ceramic beads that are installed in the tire (or tube in our case)that balances the tire as it rolls.
On 7/16/07, I installed the beads into a nearly-new set of Vredestein tires on an older set of 4.5 x 15",
60-spoke wheels. I followed the supplier's directions and added 3-ounces of beads through the valve stem of each tire's tube.
I had initially bubble-balanced the tires and wheels and drove them about 400 miles before putting the beads into the tubes. (I waited to install the beads so I would have a "before and after" comparison with tires that had some break-in miles.)
After the installation, the change was amazing! The car, which I have driven since 1973(!)feels like it is floating as it smoothly rolls on the pavement.
The advantages with this system are that there is nothing visible on the wheel, the installation is maintenance-free and the tire will not have to be rebalanced as it gets older.
Take a look at the supplier's site and drop me a note if you have a question.
Tom Pollak

Tom
I looked at adding the beads but was hesitant about putting them into my TUBES. Apparently you have done this and with great success. Do you think over the long haul, that the beads will erode the inside surface of the tubes? Does it mention what to do if the results are not successfull....can the beads be remove successfull?

Thanks for your input. Gordon

Gordon Harrison

After a long and frustrating search for "beads" to balance my tires I am pleased to say that Magnum Balncing Compound has come throught. One telephone call to Ian Salvadge and their new and improved version of the product is in the mail to me.

This after fruitless attmeps to find a Canadian supplier for "Dyna Beads" here in Canada. IMI Products was informed by email of this BBS discussion and requested (by email) to supply the name of a local distributor. The local distributor turned out to be in Syracuse New York ...which led to Meyers Truck Company in Quebec City. The answer there was ...we have the brochure but no product. Frustrating even more was an internet search showed that Malone New York (45min drive across the border) had FOUR (4) stores that sell Dyna Beads.

All this to say that I will be doing a scientific.....LOL....study of the apllication and results which I will publish here for everyone. I will try and determine if this product is effective or just hype. So stay tuned. Gordon
Gordon Harrison

Hi Gordon, I've been using TR6 wheels since 1969 on my MGA with great results. In fact mine are getting so worn (I have just installed new hubs all around) that I have just ordered a new set from Moss, made by Dayton Wheel. The Everlast concept from Dayton is to be proven to me, but I have been pleased with my 72 spoke 15x5 J wheels that I am ready for another set. I have run 165/70 and 185/60 with no clearance problems and they look great!
http://www.daytonwirewheels.com/britishcars.html+
Russ
R.A. Carnes

Hi Russ,

According to the link, that's the same as the MGC wheel (fits MGTD, F, A, B) right?

Neil
Neil McGurk

HI Gordon, I just went out and measured one of them and they are indeed 15 x 6! That is the D457C, listed under Triumph as TR250 TR6. The MGC wheels would definitely fit, maybe give a bit more ride height with 185 65s. I have Pirelli 185 65 P400 on them now with no clearance problems, although with a diameter of (about) 25.5" it sits pretty low, and seems to be geared a bit lower than the 175 R15 / 70 Cinturatos that I had on them. By the way, the P400 is quite sticky enough for me, but are a more comfortable ride for my old bones. The sidewall design is retro, much like you would see on the early 50's tires; the Pirelli is in 1.5 - 2" block letters. Back to the wheels, I guess I'd better check my Moss order....
Russ
Russ Carnes

Hi Gordon, here is what they look like on my '58.
Russ


Russ Carnes

This thread was discussed between 13/07/2007 and 29/07/2007

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