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MG MGA - Car not starting...

Hi everyone,

Had someone helping me for most of the day but we couldn't get my car (62 MGA) started. The starter cranks the engine fine, but it won't start.

We were getting a spark on the plugs. Compression checked out OK. Gas is getting to the carbs. We sprayed starter fluid into the carbs and cranked it, but no dice, so I guess I have an electrical problem. (I actually shocked myself on accident once...) We set the timing at 10 degrees before top dead center.

The problem is isolating the problem. I had my engine out while my car was being painted, I had the carbs worked on but not tuned, the distributor worked on by Jeff at Advanced Distributors and I put a new alternator from Moss Motors in. The ignition coil was working fine, but when doing the compression check, we didn't have the thick wire that goes to the distributor attached and it sparked a lot. I don't know if that damaged it. The guy helping me thought that the spark looked a little "weak" at the plugs, though both of us got a little shock from it.

The spark plugs are new and look OK, although before I took the engine out it was running much too rich. So I cleaned them and they seem OK.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Darian
Darian Henderson

PS I had Jeff put in a new Petronix system in the distributor when he worked on it.
Darian Henderson

Make sure that your distributor is not installed 180 degrees off. Also be absolutely sure that your plug wires are attached to the right plugs. If you have gas and spark, there's very little else that could be wrong there.
Mark

Like Mark said, double check that the distributor is in correctly, and the plug wires are right. There was a recent thread with just about the same situation. The poster had marked the wires before removing the distributor, then misinterpreted his markings when re-installing.

Does it sound like it is firing at all when you crank it? I had a problem starting one spring after sitting all winter. It would sound like it was trying to start and fire just enough to kick the bendix out, then quit. The spark plugs looked good and sparked fine out of the engine. After weeks of trying everything else, I finally replaced the plugs and it fired right up.

Also, cranking a lot without the high voltage wire might burn a track in the insulation on the coil. The spark has to go somewhere.

Jeff Schultz

Darian

You need to set the engine up from scratch. Follow the manual to set up the carbs, check that the timing is right and that the plug leads are in the right place. If the carbs are set up wrongly (they probably are if they have been "worked on") then it is not going to starte easily anyway. If the timing is off too, you will chase problems for weeks and get nowhere.

Start at the beginning, and go throughthe process in a logical fashion, and you will have the car running in a few hours with a lot less swearing and head scratching!

dominic clancy

As above, ignition timing and the firing order would be 2 of my suspicions.

I tried to fit an Aldon (UK Petronix) electronic ignition, but failed to get good performance because the wrong mechanical advance lobes had been fitted. However, I remember from the installation notes that it is only possible to approximately time the engine statically. The finer tuning has to be done with the engine running. So my question is, how do you know you have set the timing to 10 degrees BTDC?

Steve
Steve Gyles

Lots of good suggestions here, so I'll try to respond to them.

1) The distributor: I took the distributor out from the two bolts on the side of the engine. I was told that there is only one way you can physically put it back in if you do this, and it appeared to be so when I put it back in.

2)The timing: We turned the engine over with a wrench and lined up the slot on the rotor with the teeth on the bottom. We then adjusted the distributor with two wires and a light to see if it was in the right place. To be honest, the guy I was working with knew a lot more about this than I did.

3) About firing: When I first put the car together, I did get it to start for a little while, but only with the crank and the throttle fully open and then it just barely sputtered along. When I gave it a little less gas, it died immediately. I then tried to adjust the carbs to give it more gas, and it has never started since...

This was before we adjusted the timing.

4) The ignition wires are in the right place. I followed the directions on the box for the wiring, and the plug leads were numbered for me by the guy who worked on the distributor.

5) Someone suggested new spark plugs. That's easy enough. The coil is also a possibility. Since I have an alternator, is there any change that a defective alternator is causing this.

Sorry about this response being so long-winded, I'm just trying to accurately present the situation.

Thanks again to everyone who responded!

Darian
Darian Henderson

On #3, it should read "but only with the CHOKE and throttle open" not crank.

Thanks,

Darian
Darian Henderson

Darian
Your comments just reinforce the fact tha you MUST set up the carbs again from scratch to have any hope of starting the car. Whether or not you have an electrical problem, it's not going to start with the carbs running like this AND and a timing issue.

Start with the carbs, it sounds like you have set the static timing just fine with the lightbulb trick.

Once the carb jets are set, you have a chance of starting the car, until then it will just frustrate you.
dominic clancy

I hear what you're saying, Dominic, but shouldn't the starter fluid have started the car at least for a second or two?

Thanks,

Darian
Darian Henderson

Darian
I have an E-type where I was in the same situation, did'nt know if it was timing or fuel. I therefore used an old trick from my university, buying old (non running) junk days.
Take a sqeezy bottle (best is something meant for fuel but I have also used a washing up liquid bottle) and fill it with petrol.
Squeeze a shot into each of the carbs.
Fire her up.
If no success then turn the distributor 5 degrees.
every 10 seconds of cranking give some more fuel until it fires.
This has never failed for me and has been mostly illuminating the fact that the carbs are wrongly set!!

As always, make sure that the fuel is kept well away from the car as blow-back from the carbs is innevitable. Keep a fire extinguisher at hand too, just in case!! If you keep on with this method without the engine firing up then all that fuel ends up in the exhaust and will go off with a bang at any opportunity!! After trying for few minutes give it a rest so the fuel can evaporate.

Best of luck

Neil - www.rustoration.be

By the way, the E-type was found to have a blocked choke mechanism which meant it would not start (they are more tempramental than the MGA engine). I have since bought reconditioned carbs.
Neil Purves

I think it is possible to install the distributor 180 degrees out. Also, just because the notch on the crank pulley was lined up with the tooth on the case, doesn't necessarily mean the engine was at TDC on the #1 cylinder at that point. Make sure that #1 cylinder is on its compression stroke when that notch is lined up, and then try static timing again.

That being said, I agree with Domininc about setting up the carbs from scratch. If you had taken them off and not worked on them at all, and if the distributor position had been marked before removal, then in makes sense to start troubleshooting everything else. Until you start from scratch and establish a baseline you can troubleshoot from, you will be shooting in the dark.
Mark

Darian
No!
dominic clancy

My two cents......maybe you are losing some energy through the rotor.

I just figured out a VERY stubborn intermittent problem that dogged me a month until yesterday.
It HAD to be an invisible crack in the rotor.
It would run 500 miles and it would suddenly stop.
It would not start but had a spark at the coil.


The new rotor was a tight fit and maybe after the spindle expanded and contracted it cracked and stopped the car. The next day it cooled and after new points and condenser it started but died again 500 miles later never to start.

Added pertronics..................no change
Replaced the points and condenser....no change
Coroded coil replaced.............no change
new distributer cap and wires........no change
Replaced the NEW rotor with another one....it works
chuckcollins

Darian, I was the wing nut that posted a similar problem a few days back. After two days of racking my brain it turned out to be the most obvious and easiest correction The little # rings on the wires were placed on the wires in logical order from front to back"1.2.3.4" I interpreted the #rings as the firing order and placed them "1.3.4.2". Although this may not be your problem sometimes ya just got to walk away and clear your head. When you return the problem will be looking at you in the face!
Good Luck!
Bill R

Lots of good idea here, and I plan on checking them out. After talking to my dad, who had it before me, about it, he mentioned something interesting. I have a 3/4 racing cam and the HRG Derrington head, which means you can't set the timing according the the stock manual, but have to set it around TDC. Last Sunday we set the static timing exactly according to the manual. Could this cause these problems?

If it's not the timing, I plan on taking Dominic's advice and starting from the beginning.

Thanks,

Darian
Darian Henderson

Did you re-install the grounding strap from the frame to the engine?
JohnB

Yes, I did.

Thanks,

Darian
Darian Henderson

For the curious, it was the timing. It was way, way off, though not 180 degree. Setting the timing with this car is not like out of the book.

You live and learn...

Thanks again to everyone who offered their ideas.
Darian Henderson

This thread was discussed between 22/07/2007 and 25/07/2007

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