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MG MGA - chassis rust prevention

Guys, can anyone recommend a suitable rust prevention measure for inside the chassis rails of an MGA? I was thinking just plugging all external drain points tilting the chassis up on end and filling the rails with a suitable fish oil (oderless) leaving for a day then draining it out. Any comments/product recommendations would be appreciated.
regards
mark
PS I fail to see how one could successfully inject fully into the chassis considering the factory inserted padding and other internal bracing so that is not an option for me. Does POR make a viscous fluid that might work using my methods?
mark

I wouldn't use fish oil or any other animal based oil -it may be odourless now but won't be next year. Use engine oil or waxoyl- it won't go bad and stink your garage out. Squirting waxoyl through the holes each year ( as I do)won't get to all the nooks and crannies that your suggested method would do - if you can up end the chassis - then go for it - good luck - cheers Cam
Cam Cunningham

I'd steer clear of fish oil, too. You don't want to attract all the cats in the neighbourhood to leave footprints all over your car.

Rather than stand the frame on end, you could lift it up on its side and do 1 side at a time. And in my experience, the real problem areas are the center sections where the floorboards hold the moisture. I haven't come across a frame where it's rusted through elsewhere.

Real Waxoyl is very expensive in my opinion.

Courtesy of Glenn is the following:-

MAKING AND USING WAXOYL

It's pretty simple, really. Take a pound or so of paraffin wax and grind it up with a cheese grater. Soak it in a half gallon of mineral spirits until all of the wax is dissolved. This might require allowing it to
sit in a closed container for a couple of weeks. Stirring will cause most of the wax to dissolve, but soaking should take care of the rest. Generally try to dissolve as much wax as the mineral spirits will hold.

After that, dump in a couple of pints of mineral oil ( less of a bad smell than other oils )or a non-detergent motor oil. If the mixture is thick, thin it further with more mineral spirits until it is of a sprayable consistency.

Buy one of those cheap engine sprayers at the local auto or tool store that carries air tools. It is a metal wand with an air fitting, a spray button and a rubber tube to dip in whatever you are spraying. Rent or borrow an air compressor.

Safely elevate your car so that you can get at the underside. Spray the solution onto, and into every crevice, crack, hole, and surface you can get to. Then let the excess drip off. The beauty of it is that the stuff will soak into any rust spots. The rust seems to hold it like a sponge. It will also bleed into the smallest cracks and folds of the body and protect there, too.

All you need to do is repeat this every year, and rusting should be greatly reduced.

N.B. Please note that Waxoyl has no impact properties, lasts for a limited term and cannot deal with existing rust.

TTFN
Derek Nicholson

I'm not convinced that chassis rusting from the inside is a real problem. As Derek stated, the real problem areas seem to be at the interface of the floorboards and frame. I had to replace a short section on the top of my frame rail in this area, and when I was able to look inside the frame there was only a slight coat of flash rust on the inside surfaces. I have squirted oil in accessible areas however, just "because" I suppose.

G Goeppner

thanks for the suggestions guys. There is one product I just found today found here in Australia that is fairly new called Lanolec. Its a lonolin rust killer used and recommended in the marine industry. Will investigate this as well as the "home brew" suggested above.
regards
mark
ark

As was stated earlier, "Please note that Waxoyl has no impact properties, lasts for a limited term and cannot deal with existing rust." If there is rust inside, then Waxoil will not help. It may even hinder the situation. If there is no rust in there for the last 50 years, I would guess that you are safe over then next 50+ years.

My vote is... Do nothing... in fact that is what I did. I will let you know in 50 years whether I made the right choice.

Chuck
Chuck Schaefer

Mark,

Note that lanolin is an animal product. It is the grease from the wool of sheep (as any Australian or New Zealander should be aware).
Other members have suggested avoiding animal products as there may be an odour given off over time.

Mick
Mick Anderson

Mark, when I did my chassis 4 years ago, I just drilled several holes (3/8") at probably about 10 spots, including the cross member, and poured heaps of engine oil into the holes. I then plugged them with blanking gromments, and turned the chassis over and around for the next 2 weeks. Hopefully the owner in 50 years time won't have to worry about rust either!
Gary Lock

Mark, Wurth (www.wurth.com.au) gave a presentation at our local club (MGCC Victoria) a few months ago and they claimed to have the ideal stuff for this application. You may want to give them a call.
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Mike, is this the product they were proposing?

http://www.wurth.com.au/catalogueview.asp?pdf=A03_0015.pdf

Derek Nicholson

Mick,

I use a lanolin product on aircraft to prevent corrosion and in a salt laden environment. It is definitely a great product and not as environmentally harmful as some others. It does need a reapplication regularly but then doesn't every preventative compound.
Shane Rossetto

Mark. I have used different products in the past that contain phosphoric acid. Its the stuff that turns rust black. I found out about it a few years ago after having a car body sand blasted. You can buy it at many parts suppliers. What I have now is called "Right Stuff". I have also used "Ospho"
C Tarr

ACF-50 is pretty much the aircraft industry standard for corrosion control and prevention:

http://www.corrosion-control.com/acf50.html
Del Rawlins

Del

How about LPS3? It is my understanding that this is what Boeing used in the 747 wings for corrosion control, althought that may just be an urban legend.

Larry
69 C in restoration and close to ready to "do" the sill interiors.
Larry Hallanger

Derek,
Cavity Wax was the product they were talking about - sounds like what you guys call Waxoyl.
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I have a can of LPS-3 in my garage and it seems to be good stuff as well. I could probably find out exactly what is used in 747 wings considering that I work on them as a mechanic. Since Anchorage is a line station (basically a fuel stop), it isn't something I've needed to know since that sort of thing is taken care of at home base.
Del Rawlins

about a zillion years ago, when airplanes had piston engines that were fitted to engine mounts that were made from welded pipe, they used to fill the inside of the engine mounts with linseed oil and slosh it around- seemed to work really well as a rust preventative.
gil

We still do the linseed oil trick with tube fuselages. It seems to help. More important is that all welds are airtight, with no pinholes etc. Not so much for strength, because the joints are so over-engineered that the welds can be pretty bad and still hold, but so that moisture doesn't get a chance to enter the interior of the structure. If there are leaks, repeated heating/cooling cycles will draw moisture into the frame, which will cause an unprotected tube interior to rust from the inside out. The oil is a band-aid for that, but every little bit helps.
Del Rawlins

When I worked in Aircraft Sheet Metal we used a product called "Boeshield". It is an oil similar to LPS3 but with a very waxy feeling ingredient. It is available in spray cans. I use it to corrosion protect locks that are going to be used in wet environments and it works very well even when used in a saltwater environment. In my area it is available from marine supply stores and some woodworking shops.

Rich
Rich McKIe

I've got a lot of cast iron in my garage. LPS3 works great. If you can reapply, consider way oil. It is medium thick out with tremendous cling/surface tension. It is used to lubricate the cast iron linear bearing surfaces on machines. It isn't as sticky as you'd think and the surface is self-healing within reason. I doesn't smell or at least I can't smell it after 30 years arond machines.

Enco sells it for around 10 bucks a gallon. I buy it when they have free shipping deals although their shipping is usually reasonable in the US.

Hope this helps,
Bill
BTW- existing rust doesn't really promote new rust. Iron oxide is fairly inert and doesn't give up it's oxygen. I use converter before painting becaus iron oxide is pourous and has no strength. Iron phosphate will stick but it is incredibly brittle. When it cracks, the metal underneat starts rusting again. You need to shield the good iron from oxygen and ionic solutions like salt water with way oil/waxoyl/paint. a crack or pin hole is worst case for rust as they promote pit corrosion which quickly penetrates the steel. A bare panel will flash rust and be OK as long at you don't move it or bend it. I used to design implantable defibrilator leads and corrosion was one of our bigger issues.

Last thing I promise, Lanolin doesn't rot or else sheep would smell even worse than they do. Rendered animal oils are fairly stable too. Didn't Rustoleum contain fish oil before the EPA ruined our fun? Raw fat goes rancid so you probably shouldn't be perusing butcher shop wheelie bins for rust control.
Bill Eastman

Well Guys tyhere are a lot of opinions!! I have already cut out both inner rail vertical faces and am welding new metal in. Interestingly there was some significant rust on the inner face of the drivers side rail and a lot of cruddy weld slag left over from original build (I know the full history of the car from new and it never has had welding done on its rails before). Also the presence inside the rails of internal supporting sheet steel especially up around the leading rear spring hanger tells me inserting a cavity tube wont get it all!! As I have owned the car for over 30 years and plan on at least another 30 I have decided to go with a penetrating oil based solution (I figure about 16 litres a side rail to fully fill them and then will drain and seal all access before por 15 covering. I tend to see the logic of the guys working with tubular airframes but unfortunately your products are not readily available here. I'll go with a local variety called Penetrol. Once again,thanks for all the advice, it has given me a direction to go in
mark
Mark

This thread was discussed between 05/12/2006 and 12/12/2006

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