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MG MGA - Engine removal - items to change

I'm taking my 1600 engine out to get the rear crankshaft seal modification fitted. Its a very reasonable £250 to do. As I take it all apart I'm wondering what parts you would all recommend replacing at the same time whilst its apart.

I will leave the insides of the engine to be inspected by the engine builder as he is doing the modification.

I'm planning to change all the hoses and clamps but was wondering about the water pump. Do they last a good length of time. Mine is about 10 years old with 10k miles on it. Any other suggestions?

Incidentally I fitted the spin on filter with the downward facing filter last year and it was really difficult to get the filter off. Much harder than the original bolted version. I'm used to changing spin ons on other cars with no difficulty. It's the access which is hard on the A. I was lucky to have the dynamo off already.
John Francis

Does the engine run hot John? May be a good opportunity to clean out all the waterways. i.e. remove the core plugs and rod/flush out.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Hi Steve Its run cool even in S of France. I'm going to put my Derrington head on it too so that will make it cooler too. I've flushed the rad out but will flush the engine with water. Is it really beneficial to rod it and take the core plugs out? I wasn't planning on a complete strip down and rebuild of the engine.
John Francis

Remove the spin on oil filter from under the car. I use a large pair of channel lock pliers to initially loosen it and then remove it by hand.

Jim
JL Cheatham

I wouldn't be tempted to change too much, just for the sake of it. Knowing what the quality of modern parts is like, you could actually be introducing problems where there weren't any.

How difficult is it to replace the water pump in-situ?

Obviously, check the condition of the clutch, as it's easy to do with the engine out. If you're averaging 1000 miles per year, a half-worn clutch should last you another 40 years, maybe. Replacement carbon bearings can be of dubious quality.
Dave O'Neill 2

I would replace the following

Timing cover oil seal at the crank pulley
Side cover gaskets and the bolt seals and cups
tacho drive oil seal and gasket
all cooling system hoses with high quality replacements - the cheaper stuff is complete junk and I won't use them. The extra quality ones Kelvin had made a couple of years ago are truly excellent. Recommended if Moss US still has stock.
Flex fuel lines - especially if braided
Clutch flex line
Front gearbox cover oil seal and gasket
Rocker cover gasket and bolt grommets

If you have the engine out, all oil seals are worth replacing because they wear and harden with age. PITA to do any other time and cheap to buy so worth doing if they are all ten years old. Then you can have an oil-leak-free car too. Don't forget to add some thread sealant to the manifold studs into the head too.

Flush the radiator too.

Dominic Clancy

John,
just change the sensible things that you can't get to with the engine in the car.

So new clutch, new clutch release bearing, new spigot bearing, check the release arm for wear.

Ask your engine man to check the rocker shaft and tappets for wear and if the head is coming off, fit new valve stem seals.

If you have the same type of downwards mounted spin-on oil filter as I have, you will have to remove it to remove the starter motor and so it will need replacing anyway.

When you remove and replace the engine, put a piece of thin carpet over the steering rack and also over the corner of the bulkhead in front of the heater to prevent damage to the bodywork and paintwork there.

Also, there are two of the engine back-plate holes that are, intentionally, a very tight fit on the bell-housing bolts. They are designed to line up the other holes which makes it much easier to insert the bolts.

Another tip, take pictures of ALL of the bell housing bolts before you take them out so that you can easily remember which way they go back in. This is because it may be impossible to get some of them back in once the engine is mated back up to the bell-housing. I made a cardboard mock-up of the engine back-plate with holes in the correct places and I taped each bolt into place in it so that I was certain I knew where where it belonged.

Cheers
Colyn

Colyn Firth

Thanks that's great list. Dominic the premium quality hoses are out of stock at Moss US. Do you know of any other source?
I have a slightly squeaky clutch release but only when its cold and hasn't been used for a while. But I guess Colyn's list should sort that. John
John Francis

To me if the engine is out the things I'd be doing are--at a minimum
Replace the rear core plug (minimum) , check and/or replace the clutch and bearings (throwout and maybe spigot)
Front and rear crank seals, timing cover gasket and sidecover gaskets--
Check the engine mountings--

These are bare minimum requirements of things that need to be done while the engine is out to save having to pull it again

Get yourself some K+N oil filters, part number--HP2009-
They have a hex on the end for a socket to make your life easy-------like this--

https://www.knfilters.com/hp-2009-oil-filter
William Revit

Wiliam thanks. Is it possible to fit the later 1622 rubber seal for the front crankshaft seal. Whilst I'm having the rear seal done it would make sense to have the front one in rubber as well. However, I don't seem to have a leaks at the front.
John Francis

You just fit a later MGB timing chain cover
Dominic Clancy

Great thanks Dominic. I was just taking some of the gearbox to engine bolts out. There is one bolt behind the clutch slave cylinder. The nut comes off but the bolt is behind the cylinder and can't come out. I guess unless I take the slave off it will make it harder to separate engine from gearbox? PS its the Ford 5 speed box.
John Francis

That is probably one of those bolts that you need to make certain that you fit into the bell housing, (Ducktape it into place) before you offer up the engine when you refit it.

The engine should still come out with the bolt still loose in the bell housing.

Have you got a load leveller John, these really help you to get the engine lined back up when you refit it.
They are well worth the £24 that they cost.

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sll680-load-leveller?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ufk7u6Z5wIVgbHtCh0RDgsPEAQYASABEgKFo_D_BwE

Cheers
Colyn

PS Someone earlier said to fit new engine mountings, when I replaced my engine a couple of years ago I found that both of my engine bearings were cracked (after only 25000 miles, so not a bad idea
Colyn Firth

You might wish to consider the upside-down spin-on-oil filter from an early MGB. Just drive a screwdriver thru it prior to removal and the oil will run back into the engine. Makes replacing the oil filter a breeze. I only changed the original filter once and decided there had to be a better way after cleaning up the drive-way. The early MGB filter assembly is an easy bolt on.

I would also consider using an early MGB flywheel and throw out bearing. It is a bolt-on and is a better set up than the "A" clutch/flywheel/throwout bearing. I also did that years ago and have had no issues or regrets.
Bill Haglan

One of the biggest benefits I find is it gives a chance to check and clean the rest of the engine bay. I wish my engine was out at the moment for that very reason. It would also make it easier to change my brake light switch which is on the way out.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Steve

Change the brake bulbs for LED and then you will have no more issues wit brake light switches. I have been using on BMCautos.com LED boards for years and still have an OEM Lucas switch operating without problems.......

http://bmcautos.com/britmarket/led-taillights/mg/mga-1500-1600-more-led-taillamp-set-l549-neg-earth-detail/

Dominic Clancy

Also agree with Bill on the MGB clutch - you need front cover and fork and flywheel from a B, AND you need to do a trial assembly to make sure that the clutch cover doesn't bind on the bell housing. Also works on a five speed T9, here you need the flywheel (or have the A flywheel lightened and pegged for a B clutch (the B flywheel is lighter than an A - lightened flywheel = faster reaction to the loud pedal) and the B fork bracket (normally a no-cost option if you order direct with Peter) and a B clutch fork.

Result is a MUCH sharper but robuster clutch.
Dominic Clancy

My flywheel has been lightened and I think I have a B clutch. However, I will need to check when the engine is out. I don't like the look of the load levellers. They look clunky. Previously I used a rope sling between the normal brackets bolted onto the tappet cover bolts and a chain hoist. A bit like Barney's preferred chain arrangement but using rope (Genoa sheet from a yacht).
John Francis

WARNING.
Someone mentioned changing engine mountings.

I fitted new ones when I fitted my 1800 balanced engine about 5 years ago and got a vibration. After trying several things my suspicions, and that of my engine restorer, turned to the engine mountings being too solid as they seemed rather hard so I decided to speak to Bob West. He said as far as he could tell there were NO decent engine available anywhere in the world and best action is to fit decent used original ones. I refitted my old ones and vibration disappeared. My offending ones came from Moss but the problem was not unique to theirs. Bob said ‘they are all like bricks’. I rechecked this view with Bob a couple of years later and his view hadn’t changed. Since then Moss UK have brought out an updated one and I bought a couple which I haven’t fitted yet but they do feel softer.

You seem to have plenty of good advice.

By the way who is fitting the crank seal for you? Are they using the plan outlined on Barney’s site?

Paul
Paul Dean

Guess I'm a cheapskate. I have always slung a couple of ropes round the engine. Never had any problem and I have had the engine out more times than I care to remember.

No problem with rope/line strength I use. They are ex Lightning jet fighter brake parachute cords, each with a 10 ton breaking strain.

Steve


Steve Gyles

Don't be put off by the look of the load levellers John, they are quite compact, brilliant to use and make both removing and re-fitting the engine so much easier. Probably the best £30 I have ever spent.

I have used ropes in the past but I found it really difficult to get the engine to line up with the gearbox with them. With the load leveller you can adjust the tilt to within a degree or so just by turning the handle a little.
I was able to remove and fit my engine on my own by using it.

I will try to attach a picture of mine in use but for some reason, my pc will not let me resize it to send it to this forum.

If the picture won't attach, send me an email and I will send you the picture.

Cheers
Colyn
I had to crop a lot off this pic to get it to upload, let me know if you would like me to send you some bigger size images of it.



Colyn Firth

In 44 years I have only had the engine out twice and I seem to have forgotten where the difficulties were. The offside engine mount bolt with the ignition coil bracket has one bolt that I cannot get any spanner or socket on. Its tight up against the rubber and the coil bracket. Photo enclosed. Any suggestions?

One of the captive bolts on the nearside mount in the lower bracket isn't captive anymore so may have to be cut off.

I just love the w/shop manual when it just says "remove x" and I scratch my head and fiddle with spanners and sockets for a while before figuring out how to do it. However, as I'm retired I have plenty of time to fiddle about.
Colyn very useful comment about realigning the gearbox with the leveller.

Its great when you all contribute so much info. Thanks.



John Francis

John

That's different to mine. I've not got that triangular plate. is it your modification?

Steve
Steve Gyles

Steve

Its always been like that in my ownership, 44 years and counting. After lunch I have managed to get it out by leaning heavily on the rubber with a slightly lighter weight spanner. It's not upside down either. Its almost a captive nut but not. John
John Francis

The triangular plate is for mounting the coil - it is standard on later cars and is a real PITA to fit and remove

No captive nuts anywhere for engine removal

Agree about a leveller making life easier
Dominic Clancy

Well the engine is out using chain and rope hoist. Didn't bother with leveller. I had trouble getting the crank nut off in front of the timing chain cover. No lock tab but it was loctited on. It needed a lot of heat to weaken the loctite. It was difficult to get the blow torch to get enough air to it with a heat shield over the steering rack and it blew out multiple times.

Then of course I found I had a later timing cover and seal already. My memory isn't bad but it seems to be misfiring.

I couldn't believe how heavy the engine is with head and clutch on. Two of us couldn't lift it from the temporary stand with a rope sling and beam on our shoulders. I do remember lifting the whole engine out without a chain hoist when I was 22. Shows how much muscle bulk we loose as we get older even though I'm pretty fit.
John Francis

I have very similar memories of the weight of the B-Series engine John.
Back in the early 70s when I first took an engine out of my then MGA Coupe, I had removed the cylinder head before removing the engine.
I managed to lift the engine block from a wheelbarrow up onto a workbench on my own (I was in my 20s, very fit and too stupid back then to know any better!).

I rebuilt the engine on the bench, fitted the head and then decided to gently lower the engine onto the wheel barrow, a drop of around 18".

Well the extra weight of the head was just a little bit too much for me and the controlled descent to the wheelbarrow become an almost uncontrolled free-fall drop! The engine slid off the workbench and slammed down onto the wheelbarrow with fortunately no damage to the engine or sump.

But on its way down it trapped a hand-full of flesh on the front of each thigh between the sump and the bench and left me with the most spectacular matching fist sized blood blisters on both thighs!

I was actually grateful that it wasn't some other more delicate parts that were trapped!

So I will never forget the first time I removed an MGA engine!

Colyn
Colyn Firth

Ouch that sounds really painful Colyn. I can't imagine how you managed to trap both thighs. I took the head and clutch off today to move the engine around.
John Francis

I read somewhere it weighs 420 lbs but I think that included auxiliaries, for example starter.

Paul
Paul Dean

This thread was discussed between 22/01/2020 and 31/01/2020

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