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MG MGA - Fender washers

I intend to replace my fenders using stainless steel fasteners. I have bought some s/s fender washers. They are round rather than the oval(ish) shape of the originals and are not as thick. What advice?
Dan Barton

IMHO the original oval washers were probably designed that way to spread the load because of the fender welting. Most other fender washer applications don't use welting. If you're using the stainless hardware for corrosion prevention then the bolts are the primary problem, the washers won't make much difference. How about using the original type oval washer and then a small stainless lock washer under the bolt head?
Bill Young

I would check the size of the new washers and make sure they fit entirely on the mounting flange of the fenders. If they are too large and overlap the curved areas they might distort the fender metal where it joins the flange when tightened.
John DeWolf

Hi Dan. I agree with Bill that the original washers spread the load, and that round washers are probably not a good choice. You could likely make original style washers out of stainless steel material. A metal shop should be able to sell you Stainless steel bar stock of the correct thickness and width. Just cut it to length, round the ends with a grinder, and drill proper sized holes in each. Howeverm the original washers seem to hold up extremely well. My car still has the originals, and they are in excellent condition. You could use stainless steel bolts, but why not just use antiseize compound on all the bolt threads? This stuff pretty much insures that the bolts wont "weld" to the nuts. Cheers! GLenn
Glenn

Don't use round ones, they damage the fender as you tighten them up
dominic clancy

My old ones are a bit bent and pitted and I won't put them back. Since Moss is charging a buck a time for replacements, I guess I'm going to have to make a yet another "investment".

Thanks for the advice,

Dan
Dan Barton

Todd Clarke has a complete fender washer and bolt set for purchase. All oblong washers etc needed to mount all fenders for a set price. I plan on using my old ones with a little brush up but if my mindset were to replace all he is the guy. No sense in paying by the piece costs if the set is what you are after.
Ken

I could be mistaken, but I think using stainless fasteners on mild (i.e. not stainless) steel will cause electrolytic corrosion. Maybe someone can either confirm or refute this.
Ditto on the oval washers. Even with them, you have to be careful of how much you tighten them down. Otherwise, after you paint, you can see slight contour changes where the bolts are.
If you keep your car dry, and use anti-sieze on the threads, I'd think you'd be fine with regular steel fasteners.
John mcgdogm
John Vallely

John,
I thought exactly the same regarding electrolytic corrosion.
Dan,
Are you painting all the parts after installation, and are you driving in the winter, where you will subject the car to salt environment. If so, the galvanic difference in the two metals will cause the body to corrode around the washer, and you won't be happy.
mike parker

Mike/John: The car is now in Florida, having spent most of its life in England. I don't think it will get much exposure to salt down here - I won't be taking it to the beach! But hopefully, it will outlive me and who knows where it will end up.

I had not thought about the electrolytic effect. Wouldn't this mean that virtually any use of SS fasteners, wherever there is steel,will cause problems? The reason I wanted to use SS was that it was not easy to remove the regular bolts and many of them were badly rusted. However, I'm trying to prevent corrosion, not to cause it, and I will not use SS if it will exacerbate the corrosion problem.

So are you recommending that I use the galvanized products sold by Moss etc?

Dan
Dan Barton

There is a possibility of electrolytic action using stainless hardware but use of anti-seize does help this. I have used stainless screws on the front sheetmetal for my midget and have no apparent problems after 4 years. I recently had to remove several of them for some maintenance and found no corrosion. Does look a bit nicer with the stainless heads polished a bit also.
Bill Young

Couple of things regarding SS fastener's and fender washer's.

1. Never use SS fastener's without using a "Never-seize" type product. Even tightening a SS bolt to a SS nut can gall.
2. Before you spend your hard earned big bucks on your MGA paint and bodywork, take a real hard look at where the main body joins the wings/fenders in the area of the fender washers. After all these years, chances are that you can see and feel small ripples. This is especially true for the front fender. Just make sure that you take care of this time induced defect. It is missed on so many otherwise good restorations.

Don
Don Tremblay

Don I am aware of the problems with SS locking up when used in fixings, indeed I have had it happen twice. However I thought the problem was only when SS bolts were fixed into SS nuts/threads, I was unaware that the problem could occur on mixed fixings.
Bob (robert)

Bob,

You're right. I was a bit confusing regarding the stainless(SS) steel fastener's. I meant to say SS on SS galls if you do not use "never-seize" on the threads.

In reference to using stainless nuts or bolts with (mixed) regular steel nuts or bolts: After close to 30 years and taking items off and on my MGA I have never had an issue with corrosion due to disimiliar materials or galling. Then again, I have always used "never seize" on fasteners. I would like to believe that after I am long gone-some bloke will thank me for the foresight! Remember the first time you took your car apart for restoration?

Don
Don Tremblay

Dan,
Although you're in Florida, the salt in the air does cause problems with corrosion. You almost have to be 40 miles inland to minimize the effects. I know that galvanic action is a problem with use of dissimilar metals, but I really don't know how bad of a problem it is with cars. Technically, chrome is a dissimilar metal- how much problem does it cause? By all means use an anti-seize compound on the threads. In the Navy, we had to use graphite in alcohol for our stainless. Also be aware that some anti-seize may not be recommended on stainless steel. I know that there is silver, nickel, copper and lead anti-seize. I believe that the differences are for temperature applications. Are there any aircraft mechanics out there? We need some answers.
mike parker

I used S.S. fender bolts with painted original washers and anti-seize. In ten years no problem and you can't get a more corrosive environment than the Atlantic coast of Canada(about 4 blocks from the ocean). Consider that the original cars have mixed metals with aluminum skins on steel frames for doors and such. The only place I have ever seen any such problem is in the aluminum triangle chassis plates where they are backed up with felt that holds water. These commonly
disintegrate along the line of the felt and it is most likely due to electrolisis of unlike metals. I would be wary of any 'galvanized' fasteners. The only ones worthy of the name are the hot dipped variety and they are generally not suitable for automotive applications because of the thickness of the coating. There are a number of new ways of applying zinc coatings to steel fasteners that are mostly cosmetic, including plated, zinc rich paint and 'mechanically galvanized'(tumbled in zinc powder). None have a zinc coating of sufficient mass to provide galvanic protection. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the expense of S.S. bolts again, but would definately use anti-seize.
John DeWolf

Ex navy airframe mech here--Dissimilar metal contact is always to be avoided. A barrier must be placed between the two. Galvanic corrosion can start in the presence of moisture and airborn contaminants. There are tables that show the relative activity of metals to each other--although I no longer worry about such things. The bottom line is that properly intalled and protected steel hardware will be more effective at reducing corrosion that using stainless steel on automobile sheet metal. On planes, we only used stainless hardware on stainless components. Normally we used cadmium plated steel hardware, dipped in a water displacing compound that sealed the harware. On my MG--I cleaned the corrosion off the fender washers and bolts, sprayed the threads with WD 40 and installed them. After the installation and alignemnt was done--I gave them a coat of the same paint I used for the car. They lasted over forty years the first time..figure if they last that long again--I'll be far removed from worrying about anything any more.
R. L Carleen

This thread was discussed between 08/03/2005 and 10/03/2005

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