MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGA - Front indicator/sidelights - safety v originality

We generally accept that modern drivers may not recognize a flashing white or red as an indication of ntention to turn. The archives are relevant with particulr reference to the rear reds and a few cars have additional period yellows to supplement the early tail reds. The consensus on the front whites is less clear. The front is perhaps even more important and the factory recognised this with combined white/side and yellow/indicators.

I am minded to up-date my 1500 in the same way. The car will sometimes be used after dark when traffic density can reduce even the most conscientious driver to zombie status. My question really is whether risk outweighs originality ? is there a safer solution ? or have these cars reached trailor-only status / confinement to daytime use ?

... and yes; I do believe all these cars should have a practical use ..

FWIW

R
Roger W

Roger
its well known that my MGA is not exactly standard, it has a Sebring front valence, no bumpers, a 5 speed gearbox, 2-speed wipers, a dashboard mounted dip/flasher switch, alloy twin-cam style wheels, an MGB engine and more. A supercharger is on the to do list as well, so I am not exactly in the "keep it original" camp.

Having said that, all the changes I have made to this car are reversible and can be put back to original with just a little time and effort. I have safely stored all the original parts in my garage to give to the "DNO" when the time comes. (I only put the D prefix on the Next Owner acronym because I will really hate to be parted from this car.)

So, to me, changing the front sidelights to the later 1600 design is a really minor modification.

If you do decide to change the lights, just put the old ones safely away in a box for the next owner to put back on if they wish.

Colyn

c firth

I am about to try a second run at installing a special led bulb up front that lights white but flashes Amber, so keeps the external appearance but addresses the safety aspect. I have to get a coupe rewire finished first, but if you can wait a week or two for an update, it is cheaper than a pair of the later front lights.
dominic clancy

The later lamps will not fit the earlier wings without cutting!
Neil MG

Roger

I changed my 1500 to 1600 lights way back in the 1970s as I wasn't happy with white/red flashers even then. As Colin I still have the 1500 bits. I wouldn't dream of driving much on public roads with 1500 flashers.

The lower fixing hole is the same for both rear plinths but the upper 1600 one one is higher hence you need to drill the wing BUT if you change back the 1500 plinth will cover the upper 1600 hole so fine. There is a template on Barney's MGA Guru site.

I can't remember the front details but I am sure the 1500 unit would cover the 1600 fitting holes if you ever wanted to swap back..

At least the car still looks standard MGA but not 1500.

Paul
Paul Dean

When I began the recommissioning of my 1500 I didn't even consider retaining the flashing brake light as a turn indicator. The front indicators had amber bulbs behind a 'white' lens. I really dislike that triumph of styling over safety, it's the trendy thing on modern cars but bright sunlight - and indicators too close to headlights or DRLs - can make them difficult to see.

So, the changes I made were -

1600 wiring harness.

1600 rear lights. Paul has covered the fitting details. Get the gaskets from Bob West, no others seem to come close to fitting.

Headlights with side ( 'pilot' ) lights. It's the size rather than the power that makes you visible in dim conditions, but you can fit more powerful side bulbs than the usual 5W ( I have 20W in my B ) if you wish.
Make a short extension piece for the harness to connect the sidelight.

Fit amber lenses ( Lucas 276339, lens and rim. Rover P4 etc ) to the 1500's sidelight/indicator unit ( Lucas 539 ). This now is only the indicator. Avoided having to modify the wing to fit the 1600's units ( Lucas 632, BL 13H6399 ).

So now, at both ends of the car, the indicators are distinct from any other lights, and hopefully clear to all "zombies"

[ But, if anybody needs them, I do have a pair of nos 13H6399 still in BL boxes ... ]

Jim
J N Gibson

hi. I have installed a special LED bulb up front that lights white but flashes Amber, so keeps the external appearance but addresses the safety aspect. you have to get a led flasher unit to make it work I got my bulbs from hong kong been in the car for 2 years todate no probs. ian.
ip blain

Thanks everyone - there seems to be a consensus about the risk of using white and red lights as turn indicators.

Colyn, my 71 BGT is now a fuel-injected 3.9 V8 so, my record on originality with that model is also less than perfect but I am a little more cautious with the A.

ip/Dominic, the led bulb is intruiging. I would very much like to hear how it is done.

Paul/Jim, I think I may well follow your example with the rears (thanks for the fitting tip). I think we all agree with Colyn about keeping the original bits or at least about reversibility.

Neil, Thanks for the tip about the 1600s fronts. I suspect you are less keen to modify your cars - I hope you get to drive them all.

Thanks again

R
Roger W

This is a simple solution for the front of a 1500 bodied car - see pic - retaining the original look white glass lens and just needing an additional bulb holder, tight fitting plus a bit of araldite. However, the rears really do need additional amber flashers.
Bruce


Bruce Mayo

Jim

I like your idea of going to pilot in head at front which as you say would be safer than my 1600 front lights. May do it over winter as it would certainly increase safety and one of my old seal beam headlights has just failed so need to do something.

Paul
Paul Dean

Jim, ...and I do already have unused pilots in the headlights...
R
Roger W

The biggest improvement over sealed beams is a switch to proper H4 headlamps and separate bulbs, as the old sealed beams don't even properly light your braking distance at 60mph! These are also available with a pilot light option AFAIK.

The coupe is now finished bar picking up a wedge bulb to light the non-standard dual gauge, so I should get my car back in the garage over the weekend, and will then be able to start testing the various options for improved headlights and front indicators for a 1500.


dominic clancy

Dominic

Have just swapped out a sealed beam unit as the reflector was failing. It was a genuine uprated Lucas 75w one that you used to be able to get in the 70s, they were a significant improvement pre halogen. Currently I have fitted a spare standard 60w one but perhaps now is time to upgrade although I do very little night driving (Much of it is summers in northern Scotland where/when there are very few dark hours.)

If I change H4 with pilot sounds the way to go but are all H4s 'proper' as you say, e.g. the ones listed by Moss?

Paul
Paul Dean

I use Leacyclassics.com for most orders as the shipping is free for orders over 10 pounds -even to Switzerland!

They have a pair of H4 units including the pilot lights for £40: qrb4698

But almost any motorbike parts place or motor factor will have them in stock, as a seven inch H4 unit is the most standard headlight there is.
dominic clancy

Roger

Have a look at the thread on H4 LED headlights for the update. There is nothing to prevent you using pilots and the special sidelight bulb, you would just have to run a couple of extra wires from the standard sidelight to the pilot, and you could also replace the pilot bulb with an LED of the same fitting.

Dominic
dominic clancy

Dominic, Thank you. I am less concerned about LEDs per se (my 1500 is still positive earth) but the idea of a white LED which flashes yellow is interesting. Yes I do have sides and pilots on the V8 (four sidelights in all) and todays drive in the GTV8 in the wet to London and back (70 miles) reminded me that Jim's advice " It's the size rather than the power that makes you visible in dim conditions" is decisive.
From all that folks have written here, I take it that neither the 1500 nor the 1600 front lights are clear enough for modern night motoring. Everyone who has commented obviously has some interest in driving at night. The size of the light is even more important than brightness. Safety is sufficient justification for modifying an MG although any change should be reversible (and well documented).

I am sure dissenters will correct me

R






Roger W

The switch to negative earth is easy and is completely reversible, and makes so much else in terms that electrical updates much easier, so I cannot think of any reason for NOT doing it, unless you have an electric tachometer.

I also wouldn't dream of driving at night on sidelights alone, whether built into headlights as pilots or not. The LED sidelights are however significantly brighter than the old ones, and having an amber flasher is for me a huge safety improvement that only requires changing the flasher unit and the bulbs. And the flasher would I am sure also work with an incandescent bulb if one was required in an emergency
dominic clancy

The switch to negative earth is easy and is completely reversible, and makes so much else in terms that electrical updates much easier, so I cannot think of any reason for NOT doing it, unless you have an electric tachometer.

I also wouldn't dream of driving at night on sidelights alone, whether built into headlights as pilots or not. The LED sidelights are however significantly brighter than the old ones, and having an amber flasher is for me a huge safety improvement that only requires changing the flasher unit and the bulbs. And the flasher would I am sure also work with an incandescent bulb if one was required in an emergency
dominic clancy

Dominic,
Thanks for your advice about polarity - I shall certainly follow suit.
I have fitted LEDs throughout the sidelight circuit on the V8 with the aim of cutting down the drain on the battery while parked - (there are eight in the circuit). The only worry has been the MOT tester who told me that his instructions forbid the use of "blue" white lights. We had a discussion as you might imagine and the LEDs remain.
(I tried H4 LED as well but have reverted to the OSRAMs)
R
Roger W

This thread was discussed between 12/11/2014 and 20/11/2014

MG MGA index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGA BBS is active now.