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MG MGA - Front springs

Hi
Can someone tell me the length of a new frontspring for an MGA. A have a new set with the length of 27cm. but i dont now if it is corect
HL Lagoni

Too long by far. Early cars had 23.49 cm. From chassis 15152 they were 22.53 cm.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Yes, too long. Moss and others are supplying the wrong ones. Brown and Gammons have the correct ones.
Gary Lock

Thanks
HL Lagoni

Mine new standard specification front springs came from the MGOC Spares range and they measured the correct 8.88 inches in free length (22.56 mm)
The wire diameter is 0.53 inches (1.35 cm) and rated at 480 pounds (217.72 kg)
The MGOC part number is AHH5789.

I have attached a picture showing the ride height with my new springs, which I think is perfect.

Apparently Cecelia at Scarborough Fair in the USA has developed an updated version of this spring that has been compensated to allow for radial tyres.

Cheers
Colyn



Colyn Firth

Anyone know what the actual compensation for radial tyres is? Change diameter, length or tensile strength of the spring?
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I've been waiting patiently for someone to respond Mike-----but

All I can add is I reckon they would be stiffer to help control body roll(camber change)
OR maybe it's just a cosmetic thing to adjust guard gaps, don't know

When radial tuned suspension came out on Toranas they got several changes--

Heaps more caster
Top inner suspension arm mounting point dropped
Front and rear swaybars
Stiffer suspension bushes
Solid mounted rack
and more--all to help keep the tyre more upright during cornering

2nd version had softer front springs and stiffer rear to adjust for some understeer but basically the same
William Revit

Hi. Mine are 22.56 but I want to lower the suspension two centimeters. Has anyone done this? Is it advisable to use other springs? In this case, what are they?
Gabriel Martínez

Here you go, original front spring spec's: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/fs113.htm
About 5050 cars into production the springs were changed to be stiffer. Fatter wire diameter and shorter free length to give same ride height when loaded (static laden height). It is the 6.6" height when loaded that matters. A small difference in wire diameter makes a big difference in spring rate and working deflection.
barneymg

Thank you very much Barney, I guess I have no choice but to shorten the original springs because it seems difficult to find the C-AHT21, which are the only ones that would approach a reduction in height of 2 cm. I am interested in knowing how much to cut so as not to overdo it or to be mounting and dismounting by trial and error several times.
Gabriel Martínez

As the springs are formed with a flat surface at each end, cutting them is and having the correct flat surface for the mating surfaces is not possible
Dominic Clancy

In times gone by in my early racing days, we would use a spring compressor to compress the spring to the desired length then use a blow lamp to heat the top coils until it became loose in the spring compressor as the length had shortened.
John Bray

Okay, I guess it's not safe to cut the springs, although I don't see a way for the spring to get out of position if it's always compressed to the full extent of the suspension. I appreciate the information, I have been looking and I think I can get the C-AHT21, otherwise I will wait for the COVID-19 to pass and a specialized workshop can help me shorten them by the torch method.
Gabriel Martínez

If you torch it, you lose the temper and they will deform under driving load.
Art Pearse

Why do you want to lower the the suspension by 20mm (there might be other means)?
Nigel Atkins

Gabriele,
my car was lowered by about 25 mm when I bought it and I loved the look of it but it was a real pain to drive over any raised areas, the exhaust used to ground all the time.
I live with the lowered suspension for about 8 years because I liked it but then I fitted standard length springs to raise the car to normal height.

I expected the handling and the cornering to be degraded slightly by raising the height to standard, but I was really happy to find that it was just as good as it was before, with the bonus of being able to drive over "sleeping policemen" (speed bumps) and not ground the underside of the car.


As you can see from the picture of my car (further up this thread), the car still seems to look great on the standard springs.

So my advice is, dont bother lowering it unless you only plan to drive the car on a race track.

Colyn
Colyn Firth

Wise advices. I will consider it as an option. I have already installed the rear kit because I had bought it for a long time waiting to be able to install it. The boredom of confinement has done the rest. As the springs are not very expensive, if I don't like them I will change them again.
Gabriel Martínez

Colyn,
I thought your car was lowered by the look in the photo, you bin taking all the pies. :)

Just joking, certainly doesn't look like it needs lowering.

Nigel Atkins

Gabriel,
(not MGA but '73 midget) when you get springs that you're told will lower ride height by 1/2" (12.5mm) but actually lower by nearer 1" (nearer 25mm) you get this -


Nigel Atkins

Nice one Nigel, made me chuckle!
Believe it or not, there were times when I did only have the one chin! :^(

Reminds me of a Doncaster Rovers Fan I used to know who was extremely overweight, he had to have special replica team shirts made, they were probably XXXXL size or larger.

The DRFC shirt at that time had the motto "Rovers til I die" at the back, written across the bottom.

He had added an extra letter to this which always made me smile, so it now read- "Rovers til I diet!"

Oh yes Nigel, I may as well be the first one to ask,
what is the relevance of the jubilee clip?

Colyn
Colyn Firth

I liked the story of the added 't'. :)

Good point Colyn there's no scale to the photo.

That's a s/s Mikalor band clamp that was used as an exhaust clamp to give that extra bit of clearance as the usual exhaust clamps caught even more and scrapped the metal off them.

Depending on the size of the screen you see the photo on you might see the band has been scrapped thin with catching the road and bumps.

BTW don't use Mikalor as I'm told the spot welds can give out on them, the Norma type are better as they're folded rather than spot welded.

Now I have correct ride height springs I have the usual exhaust clamps fitted and very rarely catch the exhaust, which considering the state of some of the country roads round here is amazing.

I used to be heavier, not two chins but one chin that went from face to chest. :)
Nigel Atkins

It appears to be insignificant but the rear looks great with the 2cm drop. Of course, that also depends on your visual and perceptual acuity. I promise to report here if I revert the change back to the original settings.
Gabriel Martínez

Gabriel,
are you looking at the car as just parked or with one (or two) people aboard.

I dislike the more modern fashion for "filling the wheel arch" also doesn't work so well on classics as the suspensions were designed put crudely to be softer suspension so more space require for movement.

Many classics look lower simply because their suspensions are tired (or knackered). If you look at the cars when they were new you will see they look to sit high compared to the modern fashion and if people get in or out you see the 'softness'.
Nigel Atkins

Sorry Nigel, but I have to admit that I love the look of my MGA with the 6" wide wheels, I suppose it is the "Modsports" look that I like, the 60s and 70s modified sports cars racing class with wide wheels which I always thought looked awesome. Similarly, the original Mini with wide wheels and flared wheel arches, brilliant!

For example, I have always thought that the original wheels and tyres on the E-Type Jaguar looked too skinny for the car and the wheel arches looked too empty.

I suppose it is just a matter of personal opinion.

I have attached a couple of E-Type pictures to show the different look, I bet you can guess my preference :^)

Colyn






Colyn Firth

Colyn,
I do see that the original E-type looks to have skinny tyres and narrow axle, especially from the rear (my neighbour had an early coupe originally from when you couldn't give them away) but it also has lots of bodywork and arch overhang that highlights this too.

Personal taste of course and it'd be boring if we were all the same. I prefer function and lightness over form, if you've got tyre shredding power and/or lots of weight then wider and bigger wheels may be useful but even a supercharged souped MGA doesn't need much wheelage.

Narrow wheels dance, much wider plod. :) Then of course there's if it rains, and the noise(!) from these modern vehicles with their fashionably over width wheels and tyres, with stupidly low profile sidewalls.

My elderly neighbour has a Kia Picanto from new 15 years ago, good car, he got it with the bigger alloy wheels and 165/60-14 tyres, this is a city car that only goes around town on short journeys, about 21k-miles (if that) in 15 years and I doubt if he's ever taken it above 50mph.

My previous Spridget had the 3.5" steel wheels with chrome hubcaps, 145/80-13 tyres and the steering and handling was a delight (steering especially and better feel still when I added the reproduction spoke sprung steering wheel). My current Midget has 5" Minilight copies because they don't do narrower and the steering is nice but not the loveliness of the previous Spridget.
Nigel Atkins

I know that you are probably correct Nigel, personal preferences and logic are usually on completely opposite sides sides of the coin.

For example, I loved the look of my car with lowered suspension and I put up with its limitations for almost 10 years before I decided to fit standard height springs.

So maybe in another 10 years I may fit narrower wheels as well?

But although the wide wheels do make the steering a little heavier at slow speeds, they have amazing grip, the handling is excellent with them and they look fantastic (at least they do to me :^).

So I think I will probably suffer them for a bit longer yet.

Cheers
Colyn

Colyn Firth

Experiment. reduce the overall width of the road wheels by removing one and see how it feels on the road.


And I don't mean the one in the boot!

Nigel Atkins

I have found the short competition springs and bought them. Once installed the height of the car is the same. I guess the originals were fatigued. In the rear springs I will leave the supplement to test driving when Mr. COVID allows me.
Gabriel Martínez

This thread was discussed between 17/02/2020 and 11/05/2020

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