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MG MGA - Front suspension dis-assembly.

Looking for guidance. As part of my current shock absorber refurbishment project - when removing the front pair the top bolt (which clamps the ends of the shock absorber arms across the upper swivel pin link) became a tiresome job to withdraw the bolt (pulling it towards the rear of the car) because the hexagonal bolt head was unable to pass by the brake hydraulic pipe. It proved necessary to loosen the bracket holding the end of the hydraulic pipe at the back of the caliper and ease it inboard slightly to let the bolt head pass by.
It seems to me to be such an obvious solution therefore merely to insert the bolt from the front of the damper arm/swivel pin link and attach the nut at the rear surface that I fear there might be some good technical reason why this wasn’t done originally. Even the workshop manual shows the bolt being inserted from the rear surface.
Anyone?
Bruce.
B Mayo

I always drop the calliper and put it on an upturned bucket or hang it from the frame with a big cable tie. I can think of no reason to not insert the bolt from the front and I always do this, using Nylocks to make assembly easier where I am permitted - after all that's how it is done on all modern cars.
Dominic Clancy

Ah, an advantage for drum braked cars.
Personally I have never bothered about which end I put the bolt in, must look a t car.
By the way as Bernie once pointed out beware of taking the official Worksop manual as the ‘bible’ as it is written before there is any experience of maintaining cars. Just look at how they suggest you take the engine out, it involves removing all the floor!

Paul
Paul Dean

Spot on Paul. I have personal experience of Manual writing. In my RAF days I did a tour on RAF Handling Squadron at Boscombe Down writing the first edition Aircrew Handling notes, Cockpit Check Lists and Emergency procedures for the Tornado GR1 before it entered service. It was all based on test pilot, test Nav and flight test engineers experiences. There was always going to be a lot lacking with the manuals at that early stage as they were based on such limited data. Once in service and with multiple aircrew feedback the advice changed dramatically and often. New issues would be published as often as every 3 months in those early days. I am sure that MG could not afford that frequency of amendments and re-issues

Steve
Steve Gyles

Thanks everyone. As no one can think (like me) of any reason why the top bolt can not be inserted either way, it is going to be put back from front to back this time. Sorry that this is such a nit-picky sort of question (not my usual style!) but it makes such a difference to the ease of dis-assembly and assembly on my car - twin cam with Dunlop disc front brakes. Perhaps that makes it worse than a drum braked car, as Paul identifies.
Thanks again.
Bruce.
Bruce Mayo

Just checked my drum braked front and all 4 of the trunnion bolts are currently installed from the front. There is nothing to stop them been installed from either end with drum hydraulics. clearly this doesn't say anything about how they were done originally. Last time I had it all apart was winter before last and MG manufactured components are still in perfect condition. Religiously greased annually.

As a side point I had to remove the master cylinder from my first car, a Morris Minor, where the it sits in an underfloor chassis U section. Held by 2 bolts similar to ones on an MGA is but I couldn't pull the bolts as they fouled the torsion bars so I had to lie on my back and saw through them with a hacksaw blade. Very nasty. It was easy to reassemble as you could put bolts in other end but I guess the ones I found had been put in during manufacture but before the torsion bars were fitted.

Paul
Paul Dean

Further off-topic: Paul, there is a technique of pulling the torsion bar aside to extract and refit the MC bolts on the Minor.
Shane
Shanerj

Possibly not relevant but on my car which has modified oversized drum brakes the top bolt 'has' to come in from the rear. If it's in from the front the end of the bolt and the nut are larger than the head of the bolt and poke out too far and the brake backing plate jams up on there before getting full steering lock
Not sure if that is an issue with std drums or not but worth checking----??

willy
William Revit

Ah! That's an interesting thought Willy. Don't think it should be an issue but will definitely check. Thanks.
Willy.
Bruce Mayo

You are right Willy in thar it isn’t relevant to std drum cars as I clearly put my bolts in from the front.

Ah Shane, if I had only the internet 70 years ago I might have had an easier job on my mogi

Paul
Paul Dean

This thread prompted me to check my fluid levels. Interesting observation. I had assumed the body work was symmetrical, but while the top-up bolt for the front left SA is inside the inner wing, the right hand one is under it.

Steve
Steve Gyles

An update on this thread.

All shock absorbers refurbished and re-installed. I chose Stevsons as so much simpler for shipping and communication than USA but only time will tell if all is good. Mr Stevson certainly comes over as knowledgable (he is ex-Armstrong after all) so fingers crossed.

The top bolt issue on the front shocks - Willy made a good point about persevering with the bolt inserted from the rear, as it was on dismantling, because of clearance being better from just the bolt head than the threaded end with castellated nut. The wrong way around resulted in only marginal clearance to the flexible brake pipe and its bracket to the caliper. Thanks Willy.

Final question for guidance please - the arms of one front shock lined up perfectly to the top joint for the bolt to be tapped through and the shock body sat down perfectly flat on its pedestal for the four nuts to be tightened up on the fixing studs. However, the photos (hopefully my computer skills will work) show for the other front shock the amount of “natural” mis-alignment which required a little bit of persuasion to insert the top bolt and then to wind the body down a couple of mm or so with the nuts on the fixing studs. Should I be concerned or is that just a normal assembly issue that will disappear when the car is dropped back down onto its wheels and suspension?
Bruce



Bruce Mayo

A second picture.
Bruce.


Bruce Mayo

I would just tighten everything down. after you have been over a few bumps go back and tighten again, everything will settle.

It usually requires a bit of brute force to get everything to go together and sit correctly. Please report on the new shocks after they have been in for a bit
Dominic Clancy

I know it wasn't the question asked, but I thought I would mention when I had Peter C. do my shocks, he recommended "Nord-Lock" washers for the studs or bolts that attach the shocks to the crossmember. Those have to remain tight because any play at all will cause the fastener threads to work against the threads in the frame, and once there is a little looseness in there the studs or bolts can eventually pull out and it can be difficult to restore the threads in the frame. There are varying degrees of field expedient repairs, but it's best that they never have the opportunity to get loose and the Nord-Lock washers are pretty good insurance.

Another thing that I did, was instead of using the reproductions of the original studs (or substituting bolts), I found some grade 8 exhaust studs of the right size and used those instead. They have rolled threads and are made to a modern standard, vs. having cut threads and made by whoever Moss sourced the custom studs from.

The grade 8 studs were a little longer on the bottom threads than the originals, but that was a good thing since you lose a thread or two of engagement with the original studs, and there is only 3/8" of thread thickness to begin with in the tapped plate portion of the cross member (there are 3 layers there and only one has threads).

In the 2 inboard locations on each side they can just be threaded through and protrude into the inside of the cross member since there is nothing in there, but in the two outboard locations I had to trim them flush since the top of the coil spring sits there. But the thread engagement was still much better than it had been with the original type studs.

-Del
D Rawlins

Dominic.
I think you are right. Thinking about it now, it must depend enormously just how one jacks up the bottom pan for how the parts align later on. I feel ok now about just dropping the car and letting it settle. I will let you know about the shocks. Incidentally, Stevson says he uprates the shocks 15% from standard as a norm. Hopefully all ok. Will report.
Dell.
Thanks for the advice. Also, on both sides inboard studs I withdrew them and now use them as “bolts”. Much easier to re-install the shocks.
Bruce.
Bruce Mayo

Sounds like you've got it under control Bruce, and yes it depends a lot on how you have the jack under the bottom arm,
One thing that will cock it out of alignment is worn inner / lower bushes--If they are chopped out and need replacing the One piece MGBgt/v8 bushes with the steel sleeve through them are the ones to go for

willy

Nice find with the brake hose/ top pin clearance issue-could have been nasty-,I'd imagine the hose is in a different position with the Dunlop calipers compared to what ordinary MGA's have
William Revit

I fitted the one piece ones I would guess about 15 years ago which means about 50k miles and they still look perfect.

Paul
Paul Dean

Dominic. You asked for a report on the refurbished shock absorbers by Stevson Motors. He is very quick with the work, and says they are uprated 15%, his standard preference. They are all reinstalled, don’t now leak and the ride is much improved, particularly noticeable on nasty potholed roads! So, all good and pleased with a simple UK based transaction. The only thing I didn’t like was the black paint plastered on the shock’s alloy bodies which wasn’t keyed well and was easy to remove. Besides, it didn’t look right in black.
Otherwise all good.
Bruce.
Bruce Mayo

If you ask, Peter C will leave your shock bodies bare aluminum. The only down side of that, is the screws are also bare and will rust if left untreated.

-Del
D Rawlins

Soon get covered in shock absorber oil! Not the best bit of kit to hit the market place for leaks.

Steve
Steve Gyles

This thread was discussed between 14/06/2019 and 08/07/2019

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