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MG MGA - Gasoline Prices

I noticed in a recent thread that Steve Gyles (UK) report paying more than US $7.00 per gallon for gas. I admit to being curious about how gas prices are reacting outside of the US. Are they showing the same % increase they are in the US? People here are whining about paying slightly more than $3.00 per gallon, or more, for "regular". High octane is, of course, more. A lot of finger pointing going on, but it is truly a world market.

GTF
G T Foster

Pricing in Ontario is a weekly game. They rise before the w/e by as much as 10 c/L (right - litre!!) and back down again Monday. The companies are all in collusion, exact timing by chance my *rs*. but today they are "only" 94 c/L, which is USD3.24/USG. Globally it depends much on taxation as crude oil.
Art

The Yen has been clobbering the $ and as of today, for regular the price is $1.26/L or $5.03 a gallon.

When I read that Steve Gyles was paying that much I about fell over. I'll be in metro Tokyo tomorrow. Intrested to see how much gas is there.
Tom Baker

Personally I don't mind paying more for gas if it means less trucks and SUVs on the road...this damn fad of everyone buying and driving behemoths (instead of sensible fuel-efficient cars) is hopefully over, and we will have less of those beasts with their higher-than-legal headlight beams in our tiny rearview mirrors.
:)
Jim P

GTF we do pay a good amount for fuel in the UK. But you need to realise our gallons are bigger than yours so our price is not a direct comparison. Our gallon is 4.546 litres where I believe your's is about 3.8 litres.
Also we pay a lot of tax on our fuel instead of paying a lot more tax on something else. As you will be aware the money has to come from somewhere to pay for the houses of Parliaments wages. Plus we have a free health care system.

I personally think it is best because we make cars that are a lot more efficient and thus preserve the earths dwindling resources. Something your side of the pond appear not to consider.
Bob (robert) I am turning? yes I once owned an MGWasp!!

Just to expand on Bob's comment about tax, we pay £0.50 ($0.90) direct tax on every litre of fuel. On top of that we pay 17.5% VAT.

So, with UK fuel at about £1 a litre, the break down is as follws:

50p tax
17.5p value added tax
32.5p shared between the owners, drillers, refiners, distributors and retailers. Therefore, the UK Government takes the lion share of 67.5p.

I also got my sums wrong about what I paid at the pump a couple of days ago. Thanks Bob for reminding me that there are 4.546 litres to a gallon. I actually paid £4.67 ($8.42) an imperial gallon.

Steve
Steve Gyles

We pay less because we buy more. As much as it pains me to agree just a little with Commie Bob, I would like to see more efficient vehicles here. I saw a number of them (small delivery/service trucks) over there recently, made by Ford, Citroen, etc, that would really sell well here if they were offered.
JohnHenry

Hooray fame at last! didn't know you cared so much JohnHenry.
Bob (robert) I am turning? yes I once owned an MGWasp!!

$5.22 AN IMPERIAL GALLON.....$4.37 A US GALLON.

NOW HOW DOES THAT COMPARE:

a Beer.....$1.25 / 350 ml

a Cola..... $1.00 / 355 ml

a coffe..... $1.50 6 oz

a litre of wine .....$8.00 - $20.00 / litre

heating oil..... 0.57 c / litre

AND WE COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PRICE OF ...GAS
Gordon Harrison

Bob (robert) says (with extensive deletions):

> Also we pay a lot of tax... Plus we have a free health care system.

Care to define "free" for us, Bob? :-)
David Breneman

Robert and JohnHenry. I tend to agree with both of you that, in some cases, the US population tends to spend their money on large, less fuel efficient vehicles. However, this is not, always, the case. Here, in the American West, where Mormons are common, we have the large van or SUV, commonly known as the MoMobile, or Mormon Automobile. As I remember Edward Abbey's comments, the Mormons should have, at least, 12 children per wife. And, certain branches of that religion allow one to have serveral wives. This, the large vans, and SUVs, are not, per se, an indication of extravegance, but, may be a necessity. The local "Hispanic" population also tends to large families and need a larger than normal vehicle. A fellow I know, who married a "Mexican" woman, could not fit his eight children into an "economy" car even if he should desire to do so.

I find it interesting that Robert is so interested in "conserving resources/saving the environment". Perhaps I am mistaken. Is this the same "Bob/Robert" who was, after a period of years, a championship winning driver of an MG midget? How can one claim moral superiority over the scruffy Americans, some of whom need their large cars to drive their large families from place to place, when one has spent an inordinate amount of our limited resources driving a sports car around the race track in hopes of winning a championship?

In other words. how can one justify driving a race car around the track, which serves no purpose other than ego gratification, and denigate the use of a vehicle for transporting one's large family?

Les (Who uses an MGB as a daily driver, whose wife drives a fuel efficient Mini Cooper as a daily driver, whose older daugher drives an MGB as a daily driver and whose younger daughter uses a Masda Miata as a daily driver. We are not Mormons, even if we live in the SouthWest.)

By the way, my expendage for gasoline is surpassing my expendage for both beer and tobacco. Bummer.
Les Bengtson

David I see what you are trying to do but you have being very selective with my statements. I actually said We pay a lot of tax on our fuel instead of something else. Are you some sort of journalist? Lets not start a flame war about a free health care.

Les if only all that were true! Having just returned from an enjoyable vacation in Florida I can assure you that one in every two vehicles was an enormous SUV. The purpose of which was NOT to carry huge numbers of family members but whose sole purpose was to intimidate the driver of the "normal car" in front. This was especially the case at night when the headlights from these vehicle dazzled you all the time! Some of these SUV things were also a pick up, 99 percent of which had paintwork in the rear deck better polished and less scratched than an award winning MGA. Yep they certainly have a use!
Bob (robert) I am turning? yes I once owned an MGWasp!!

High fuel prices are here to stay and will increase week by week. Over in Asia there is an increasing thirst for the black stuff, so it's all a question of supply and demand.

With the emergence of China and India as major industrial zones, more and more of the tankers leaving the Gulf are heading east, not west. A massively long pipeline also now links the oil fields of Kazakhstan to China - the oil required just to prime this pipe is valued in $Bns.

Neither China nor India is paying too much attention to carbon emissions while their industries are booming, trying to meet demand.

In the years ahead I can see military confrontation in the waters leading from the Gulf through the Indian Ocean, the Straights of Malacca and into the South China Sea. All does not bode well - my opinion.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Bob. It is unfortunate that some people tend to buy, or lease, large, fuel inefficient vehicles as some form of status symbol. It is not, however, something new. The rich and the powerful have, for thousands of years, done such things. All I can say is that the majority of the people I call friends and the majority of the people I talk to are as concerned about the use of "supersized" vehicles as you and I are. Was speaking to a fellow yesterday who had just purchased a used van for his wife. He has a large family. He drives a small, fuel efficient car to and from work. Wife tried a large SUV and did not like it. She then tried much smaller Subaru and found it too small for the family, groceries and school books, etc. Now, a small van which, hopefully, will be adequate for their needs and provide good gas milage.

Thus, I have hope. I am seeing a significant section of the US population, at least in my area of the country, who is beginning to understand that driving smaller cars is both fun and makes economic sense. There will need to be some significant changes made in the cities of North America if cars are to be made optional--for the most part, these cities were designed for the use of private transportion systems rather than public transportation systems. My ideal would be to live in a society where the requirement for a private automoble was an option rather than a requirement. I have visited such places and found them enjoyable. Being stuck in rush hour traffic, tens of miles of stop and go traffic in the heat of summer, is as large an incentive to make changes as the rising cost of gasoline. Again, we can only hope.

Les
Les Bengtson

Yes Les I think you have nailed it when you say use of a private vehicle should be an option.

One thing I have noted over your side is the presidents desire to cut the need for middle eastern oil. Might I suggest 2 courses of action to achieve this very worthwhile objective.

1 Investment in public transport.
2 The use of smaller fuel efficient vehicles.

Both these are difficult to encourage people to do but the point of this thread was fuel prices. In Europe the high cost of fuel has made us choose fuel efficient vehicles. We could do more with public transport but as yet we have a long way to go with little incentive. Thus now you are having high fuel prices forced upon you I am sure you choice of transport will alter.

Perhaps Les they will all take your lead and use a nice LBC.
Bob (robert) I am turning? yes I once owned an MGWasp!!

Bob. One can but hope that such will be so. Back in the 1960s there was a book, "The Limits to Growth", published by the Club of Rome a group of concerned individuals who believed that resources were finite and, with increasing population, the struggle for such resources would become objectionable. This thread is about one of the areas they discussed--increasing needs for energy sources with declining availability of same.

Having lived in Europe (three years in Spain and 3+ years in Germany), I am aware that their life style is considerably different that that here in the US. I greatly enjoyed my time there and, had I a better ability to become fluent in foreign languages, would probably retire in Europe. I found, in northern Europe, a higher quality of life than I have found in much of the US.

I have often wondered how the US could be the "leader of the free world" when we provide such a poor quality of leadership. It would be nice to think that, sometime soon, our elected leaders would seek to influence the world through example and moral leadership rather than armed force. But, I am one of those "scuffy intellectuals" and we all know they are impractical dreamers. Both you and I seem to fall into this category it would seem. But, at least we can enjoy our MGs.

Les
Les Bengtson

With the high price of fuel I run a spreadsheet on fuel costs for my MGA. Whilst the spreadsheet is not rocket science it has the added bonus of monitoring my MPG and proved useful recently when I noticed a sharp drop off caused, as I soon found out, by out of balance carbs.

My homebuilt spreadsheet just requires inputs of date (optional), Mileage, fuel put in (litres) and cost per litre. Outputs include: fuel put in (gallons), total litres (accumulative), total gallons (accumulative), current MPG (last tank load), overall MPG, refuel cost (last tank load) and accumulative cost. For the figures to mean anything for the short term (one tank load) it requires you to fill to the top at each refuel, but over the long term this does not have a significant impact.

I appreciate that there are probably a lot of you out there who are more adept at spreadsheets than I, but if anyone one wants a copy I will load it up on my website. Might take a few days to make the master, add a few notes and, if neceassary, alter the conversion calculations to US measures.

Microsoft Excel.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Flame wars/dialog aside, I'd still like to know how gas prices are reacting outside of the US. Are they showing the same % increase they are in the US?

Thanks,
GTF
G T Foster

I live in Florida and there are several clases of people who seem to think that owning a big SUV orwhat I call a "pretty boy" truck is requisite. First is the suburban mom--who fancies herself all powerful behind the wheel of her suburban "Ussault" vehicle--she's usually on the cell phone and so needs a bit of armor in case she fails to see another car in her way. Next are all the elderly folks (Florida is full of them) who feel safe only if they're surrounded by at least 4000lbs of steel, and third are the rednecks, who need a massive pickup, preferably a 4x4 --NASCAR or HD versions are especially prized, in order to impress the gals over at the Waffle House or trailer park. Gas could double (again) and these folks would no sooner change into a more reponsible vehicle than undergo a sex change. The other problem--and this affects everyone, is that car makers (not just the "big three") seem to be relentlessly increasing the size of their light trucks, vans and utility vehicles. Looked at Nissan, Toyota or any other small trucks lately?
R. L Carleen

Gas prices here are 1.78 CHF per litre for 98 octane. That equates to to USD 1.5 per litre (about $6 per US gallon), about 10% cheaper than over the border in the surrounding countries. That makes it cheaper again in relative terms, as salaries are higher here tahn in surrounding countries.

Cars are taxed according to engine size / emissions here, so there is still an incentive to drive fuel efficient cars. Lots of small French cars, small GM, small Japanese. Smart cars are VERY popular here, and many others are BMW, Audi or Mercedes. Quality counts (Therefore not much US origin!)

Public transport here is great, connections are synchronised, so you can get from any point in the whole country to any other point with a maximum changeover wait of 15 minutes. Tickets are valid on ALL forms of transport to get you from A to B, whether that's a bus, tram, cable car, ship or train. And it's cheap (a season ticket for all public transport for the whole country is $2400 per year, cheaper for pensioners, families and under-18's). A LOT of people have them.

In the city of Zürich, every transport line runs at 10 minute intervals in the rush hour, and 20-30 minute intervals outside the rush hour, from 5.15 am till 00.30.

You don't need a car here. Which is why I have the A as my daily driver, and take the train or tram when it's snowing or raining cats and dogs (like right now!)
dominic clancy

Supply and demand!
Works every time it's tried.
We keep buyin', and they keep supplyin'

And then we lose oil wells and refineries in the gulf as a result of hurricanes, etc---------------Harder to supply.

Yeah, I hate those durn 'ol SUV's un pickumups with their headlights sooooo high!

Now fella's , just leave ol Bobrobert, 'er Bobprohet alone.
He's a little cranky from us pushing his buttons over in 'Flame Wars'

Sf
Dwight
P.S. I have [almost] always driven fuel efficent cars, 'un trucks 'un vans.
Even my first car, a 1956 Plymouth with 270 c.i. V8 would do 17mpg in the early 60's.
My second car?
A '61 Sprite. 3rd? '61 dodge Lancer 170c.i 6cylinder. 4th. 1965 MGB.
Do I go on?
DCM McCullough

Bob's correct about the Houses of parliment but free health care?? What about NI contributions ? Health Care? what health care ? They're sacking all the doctors and nurses. When I sold pertol the goverments take was 75% of the pump price, I gave up when my margin fell below 3%, you know when you are beaten


Terry
Terry Drinkwater

R.L.C. can you possibly get everyone in Florida to think as you before my trip again next year. Thanks
Bob (robert) I am turning? yes I once owned an MGWasp!!

This thread was discussed between 12/05/2006 and 16/05/2006

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