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MG MGA - Hood installation

Looking at Barney's instructions for the fabric top, need a clarification.
Is the first step to screw the wood bow in place on the hood frame, and staple the first piece of fabric to it? ie does the fabric wrap the frame as well?
Also, are the metal eyelets at the fixing posts trapped between the wood bow and frame or do they go in after the fabric?
Nice point about using the lift a dot fasteners to cut their own prong-holes.

Art Pearse

There were three parts to the hood I got from PJM, the hood proper, a 4' length of hidem banding and an 8" wide strip of hooding 3" of which was folded over and there were two rows of stitching to create the 11/16" wide flap which points downwards over the windscreen.
I screwed my steel hood frame to the wood and fixed the flap strip around both wood & frame. I had two rows of tacks along the top edge at the joins. Don't forget some foam underneath the vinyl to reduce the chance of rain penetration when driving.
At this point I fixed the metal windscreen peg eyelets.

Then I fixed the hood to the frame and, starting from the centre, tighten the material as much as you can before tacking the hood edge to the front of the wood. The excess is cut off and the hidem banding used to conceal the tacks.

When stretching the hood I used a fan heater on full inside the car and prevented the heat escaping by draping material over the windows. It took three of us to do this job, two pulled the hood from the front while I tacked it in position; it was a tough job!..............................Mike
m.j. moore

Thanks Mike.
Another one - my hood has the pocket sewn in for the 2nd roof support. So I guess this member has to be unscrewed from the frame, inserted in the hood pocket first of all before offering the hood up to the frame?
Art Pearse

You're lucky Art I didn't have any bow pockets on my hood! I was worried in case the hood roof might bow upwards when driving at speed but it doesn't seem to when driving at 60 mph. Are your bows not welded to the frame structure and so non removable? .....................................Mike
m.j. moore

Yes, it is tack welded both ends, but there are also 2 srews each end. And I have a grinder..! But this raises the question was it tacked after the hood was put on originally? Not a good thing to do cosidering the risk of burning the hood! But why screws and weld? There are also 2 screws on this bow that look like they are intended to penetrate the roof to hold it in location. I don't intend to do that!
I made a slight mistake in that I test assembled the wood bow to the frame with the peg eyelets between the two. The thumb screws then fouled on the eyelets, which I attributed to the fact I had oversize tapped the holes to 3/8F (thread had rusted/stripped) and that was the reason for interference. So i have unnecessarily opened out these eyelets to accommodate that position. However, they can still be used in the proper (outside) position.
Art Pearse

I'm still a bit confused over the arrangement of the fabrics at the front.
Can someone sketch out a sectional view through the wood bow and frame showing the layering?

My old front piece has no staple or tack holes other than the front. At the rear it looks like it was trapped between the bow and frame, judging by the screw holes.

Mike - I got the bows mixed up. The one that goes in the pocket (2 from front) is not welded, just 4 screws. The rearmost has the 2 screws that perforate the top. Is there a way around having to do this?

Art Pearse

Art, As far as I can remember it this is a section through the hood stick. (see pic.) As mentioned before the flap strip goes on first followed by the hood. The two rows of flap strip tacks cannot be seen when it's finished.

When I dismantled my hood frame for derusting and spraying I removed the welds on the bows. I can't remember whether the second bow was welded. Some of the screw holes in the frame had been enlarged with oversized screws so I welded them up and redrilled for the Todd Clarke ones I'd bought. I also rewelded the bows.

The hood is meant to be screwed to the rearmost bow in two places where the front to back seams intersect with the rear side to side seam just above the rear window. Both screws go through cup washers and small circles of hood vinyl just a bit larger than the washer then through the hood into the third bow............................Mike




m.j. moore

Just relooked at the picture. The two rows of tacks at the top don't go through the hood of course only the flap strip. I think I might have used some contact adhesive along the top of the stick.

PJM who made my hood had marked off a yellow line across the front of the vinyl to show how much the hood had to be stretched. The yellow line corresponded to the front edge of the hood stick...........Mike
m.j. moore

Here are two pictures of an original car with original hood.
The first one shows the flap strip and the two rows of stitching. Also shown is the neat way of tucking in the side surplus under the hidem banding.
m.j. moore

And the second shows the two screws through the rear of the hood.




m.j. moore

Oops the first one didn't upload so try again......


m.j. moore

Just one note, try and make sure that those tacks (along the top under the main hood fabric) or staples are done neatly as they will be visible when the top is up. They may never be noticed (fortunately in some cases) but they are visible!
Neil McG

Neil. you mean they show through the top fabric?

I've read the 30 pages on Barney's site and I understand it now!
Art Pearse

No, you see them from inside the car, not obvious, but once noticed they could become annoying if not done neatly.
Neil McG

The foam under the vinyl that covers the bow - I have 1/2" thick soft foam rubber. Is this OK?
Art Pearse

I'm set up ready for my first staple, but here's a picky question. See pic for a X section of where should the front nose of the bow sit in the flap material? Case A or B? Case A gives a bit more cover over the screen and allows a bit of space for the foam.


Art Pearse

The nose of the wood bow should overhang the front edge of the windscreen frame. Position the wrap with the hanging flap in front of the windscreen. Then pull back on the trailing fabric under the bow until the flap comes into tight intimate contact with the windscreen frame. That is the first line of defense for the weather seal If you leave a gap here it will serve as a scoop to direct air draft and rain water inside.

Wrap the fabric up the back,over the top, and down in front (if it is long enough). Put all staples on the front side if you can. Staples on top would be visible from inside the car after assembly. Not too many staples please, as there will be more staples to come in the same location.

If the fabric is too long you can trim this first warp just above the bottom edge of the nose after stapling. Then pull the front fabric upward to cover the first wrap, and tack it in front. Trim this piece just below the top front corner of the nose, above the staples, where the fabric edge will not be visible from inside.

If you are looking at pictures on my web site, I did it in wrong sequence and ended up with staples visible on top. Live and learn.

Before you start to wrap, check length of the wood bow. There were three different designs, two short and one long. The longer one is for use with the MK-II style top that is wider with overhang above the side curtains. If you install the long bow with a narrow canopy it will not fit right at the front corners, and the side curtains will not nestle up to the windscreen posts. The long bow can be trimmed to convert to a shorter one. If you install a short bow with a wider MK-II canopy, it will droop at the front corners, and the side curtains will beheld too far out at top.

Different vendors seem to supply only one of the three different bow styles. Most of the vendors don't seem to know that there was more than one style, and may not have a clue which one they are selling. Let the buyer beware. Know before you start which top you are installing, and be sure you use the correct matching wood bow.
Barney Gaylord

So, Barney, should I make the peg holes first, then the entire wrap can sit between the bow and screen with the screws tight, in order to get the right flap fit?
Art Pearse

If you think first, you can put a strip of foam rubber on the bottom before wrapping. That helps nicely with the final inside weather seal. Then install the brass bushing(s) temporarily to verify orientation and fit, and remove them. Then wrap the fabric underneath, pull the flap tight against the windscreen frame, and install a couple temporary staples for alignment. Then cut the hole through the fabric and install the bushing, which will cover the cut fabric edge around the hole. Pull the temp staples and unwrap enough to bend over the top ears on the bushing for retainment. Then finish the wrap and stapling.
Barney Gaylord

More issues - my hood (Moss) has a pocket for the first bow back, but it is too small to thread it through!!
What to do?
I may just perforate the pocket and use cable ties.
Way too difficult to undo the stitching and insert larger pocket.
Art Pearse

Try warming up the vinyl before you try threading the bow through.
m.j. moore

Mike, it's too tight for that even.
Barney, the bow overhangs the screen 3/8". I looked at the folds in my old flap strip and it looks like it was pulled back so that there was 1/4" of vinyl wrapping under the bow before the flap hangs down. That certainly puts the flap tight to the screen, however, the little bit of the flap that is inside has to sit forward or backwards as the vinyl is tightened, which makes the flap sit the other way.
I'm thinking the perfect solution to this is to rout a small groove in the bottom of the bow to accommodate it, or to run a row of stiches above it, making the flap about 3/16" longer.
But what does everyone else do?
Art Pearse

Art, Perhaps if you glue the 1/8"-1/4" foam strip underneath and terminate it about a 1/4" in from the front edge it will provide some room to accomodate your inside flap. Your flap strip construction is different to mine shown in the drawing above where the two rows of stitches only pass through two layers of vinyl. Makes you wonder where the plans came from that were used to make these hoods...............Mike
m.j. moore

I have not been following this thread as it is all too long ago in my memory to add anything specific other than I used the illustrated articles in Malcolm Green's MGA Restoration Guide. He also addresses (with colour pictures and diagrams) recovering the seats, interior trim and making the tonneau. Probably nothing different than that covered by Barney, but a useful MGA book to add to the collection.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Mike, my old flap strip is pretty much as my new one, but even has a strip of celluloid as a stiffener, so, same problem with the internal projection!

Barney, - you mentioned to check the wood bow vs the new hood for width. I enclose a pic of the match - I lined up the tip of the bow with the side seam, evenly each side. Looks OK to me - do you concur?

Art Pearse

No picture?
Barney Gaylord

Here we go!



Art Pearse

I don't get it. A little too close up, maybe. I don't see the windscreen post or side curtain.
Barney Gaylord

Barney, the new hood is laid out upside down. The wood bow is laid over it, also upside down where it would meet the hood. It's not on the car! Just to see if the hood width matches the bow.

Art Pearse

Afraid I can't tell much about the length unless it sits on the windscreen for comparison.
Barney Gaylord

Art, Looks spot on to me. Like yours the tip of my bow coincides exactly with the side seam on both sides. You need enough of the hood to fold over so that the hidem banding clip doesn't foul the 3/8" wide hem at the edge. This is a picture of the edge of my hood.


m.j. moore

This flap thing is really giving me a problem!

See new sketch attached.

Sketch B shows how my flap is sewn - 3 layers. The root of the flap needs to be pulled 1/4" under the nose of the wooden bow to be tight to the screen (the bow overhang is 3/8"). If I do this, then the flap lays facing the rear, flat, which would pose a real nuisance when putting up the hood.

In Sketch A, it is sewn as per Mike Moore's description, and can be placed without any forward or aft lean.

So - I am thinking of picking the seam and re-sewing it as a simple 2 layer fold (or getting a good machinist to do it for me!

Any comments? Anyone else had a hood from Moss lately with this issue?




Art Pearse

It should look like section A. If the stitching goes through the inner wrap layer as shown in section B, that is wrong.
Barney Gaylord

OK, I guess I'm going to get it re-stitched. Another point is that my wrap is stiched in a straight line. The old wrap stitching matched the W/S curve, but maybe thats just 52 years of settling.
Art Pearse

Had it re-stitched like section A. It now hangs perfectly on the screen. Ready to staple!
Again, the old flap (original hood) was like section B, and even had a strip of celluloid inside, so I don't know how it laid right.
Art Pearse

This thread was discussed between 06/04/2014 and 16/04/2014

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