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MG MGA - How good are your brakes
Mga's can cruise quite happily at 70 - 75 mph which is adequate even for modern times but the brakes seem not to match this same standard. My Mga with discs has trouble stopping quickly even though it always passes the annual MOT brake test and I believe that everthing is working properly. For example I cannot lock wheels other than at very slow speeds and yet early test reports on the car always praised the disc brakes. Is this a case of being spoilt by modern cars with servo's or is there something Ive missed on the performance of my system? John |
J H Cole |
My coupe stops quite well, but then it has 4 wheel discs. It's been awhile since I've driven a Lockheed car, but there shouldn't be any problem with brakes if the system is up to snuff. And a servo won't do anything for you except take a load off the old leg. Remember that these are old cars and the braking systems are not always functioning as they would have when new. With modern rubber and a properly rebuilt brake system, I can't see any reason to worry about an MGAs brakes. |
Bill Spohn |
I think it's a matter of being spoiled by modern systems. On the odd occasion where I have had to stand on the brakes it has stopped quite quickly but it is touch and go as to if I will stop as quickly as the car in front. As with you everything is in good working order. As I'm putting in a supercharger I am looking at finding different pad compounds to see if I can get something more grippy even if they have to be changed more often. |
R. Maher |
Hi John. My MGA has disc brakes, and stops extremely well and quickly. MGA's sometimes have a problem with seized rear wheel cylinders. You might want to pull your brake drums, and have someone gently step on the brake pedal, while you watch the brake shoes. The shoes should expand outward, when pressure is applied to the brake pedal. If the shoes dont move, then the wheel cylinders are seized, and need to be repaired or replaced. |
Glenn |
Glenn, I had this problem on my MGA with Dunlop disk brakes on all four wheels. One of the pistons on each rear wheel was stuck. Braking was marginal until I had the cylinders on all four wheels rebuilt by White Post. After that the brakes were great. |
Howard Battan |
"I cannot lock wheels other than at very slow speeds"....Great! Do you know how long it took to develop modern anti-lock brakes? Seriously, best braking perfomance occurrs before lock-up. Sliding the tires is not the way to stop fast. If you really want to check brake performance do a 60-0 stop, without lockup, measure the distance, then check that against original specs. FYI, you can use a G-Tech for this. Regards, GTF |
G T Foster |
I have power brakes on my 1600 and it stops easy and quick. I have had the problem Glenn talks about many time over the years as the car sits sometimes for a long period of time. I now use silicoln brake fluid and no longer have that problem. |
JEFF BECKER |
Another thing that has changed is tires. The old bias ply tires did not stick to the road like the new radial tires do. Perhaps with bias tires you could lock all four wheels. That would be all the brakes you could ask for at the time. Now with sticky raidials, the brake system may not be up to the task of locking all four wheels! |
Ed Bell |
The brakes on my 1600 are standard but very well maintained. If I want I can lock all 4 wheels at speed, this means that the brakes are perfect for the grip of the tyres. Thus any modification to the braking system on the car would NOT improve its stopping distance. I would suggest if you can not lock the wheels then the brakes require attention. |
Bob (robert) I get up real early somedays |
Our brakes are not as good as modern brakes, even though they are discs. When the cars were new--they were better than what was currently on the road--but some things change and MGA's aren't one of them. With this in mind, although you can run with the pack--it's a really good idea to keep a bit of extra distance between you and the car ahead. tough at times, as there are always the impatient fools who think that if there's a gap between two cars, the trailing car must be running more slowly and has to pass. |
R. L Carleen |
I have no problem with my brakes at all. I drive modern cars occasionally, and find that although the A pedal is harder (no squish as the servo cuts in), the A brakes are just as effective. I can also lock the wheels on an emergency stop no problem (and according to the Supercharger board I am a RevHead, so I probably do this at speed....!) I do find a bit of fade as the discs/pads get hot coming down a mountain pass at speed, but that's an excuse to enjoy the view. Si Fluid for 18 years, replaced all rubbers after 16 years, all bores like new. Has to be recommended. |
dominic clancy |
Hi John, Yes, we are spoiled by modern brakes, servo's, ABS etc. My coupe has a servo and Austin Princess 4 pot calipers coupled to the 'MGB' adapter plates. It stops! If you need better brakes a servo is the way to go, but be careful as the rear brakes will lock, this can be fun in the wet at speed (NOT). I thought about the option's and went for better front brakes as opposed to a compensator on the rear brakes. Don't buy EBC pads, they are too hard. Regards Terry |
Terry Drinkwater |
Terry how does a servo improve the braking? a servo can only reduce the effort required by your boot to lock the brakes. To improve a braking system that will easily lock all 4 wheels requires grip to improve from the tyres. |
Bob (robert) I get up real early somedays |
I, too, have fitted a booster and am happy now that I did. (Deliberated for a year!!) Maybe it "only" makes the pedal easier to depress, but probably find that it 1) engages a fraction earlier 2) reaches ideal braking pressure sooner and 3) provides "feel" to avoid lock-up situations. All 3 factors are crutial and I, for one, feel more comfortable at speed than I did before the addition 18 months ago. Just my 2 bobs worth. Dave |
David Godwin |
Dave, Although I agree with Bob, if you feel more at one with car then it is an improvement for you. Tuning the car for your own needs enhances the experience. Paul |
Paul |
I have 4-wheel drums as stock and I can lock up all four wheels without having to "stand" on the pedal. The tires are only 165R15 so if I increased the rubber I'm sure it would take more effort. Like Dominic my only complaint is fade on decents where I may create a lot of brake heat by driving, uh, spirited! But even at speed it has to be a long, steep decent to overheat these brakes. |
Steve Simmons |
Steve, those Santa Monica Mountains have not been that hard to drive. I can keep on your ass I mean the cars ass without any problems and brake so we are not siting next to each other!!!! |
JEFF BECKER |
Locking the brakes is not an efficient means of stopping your vehicle, nor measure of efficiency. When the wheels don't turn, the rubber is burning and abrading off--decreasing friction with the road. At the same time--you have no control over the directional stability of the car. Heck--you can lock up the wheels on a Model A Ford...and we all know how well they stop. An antilock system gives much shorter braking than a standard set. Nearly universal in modern cars. Better heat dissapation means they fade less in stop and go situations. You're running at a serious disadvantage in your MGA. |
R. L Carleen |
I think you are missing the point R.L. We were not suggesting that locking all 4 wheels would help with braking, it was only mentioned for the fact that the present braking system in good order can bring the wheels to the point of ultimate braking efficiency. i.e. the point just before the wheel locks. Anti lock brakes fitted to modern cars can not increase efficiency they can only help the inexperienced driver to find this point and not go over it. |
Bob (robert) I get up real early somedays |
Bob Depends upon type of ABS employed. ABS systems that cycle by decreasing brake pressure slowly until traction is found and then increasing pressure slowly until traction is lost, can operate the tyre much closer to the edge of traction than any driver can reaslistically hope to achieve. This type of ABS is fitted to top range cars and you will need to be on top of your game all the time to outbrake these systems. Unfortuantely most ABS systems decrease the braking pressure too fast and then increase the braking pressure too fast. Operating like dozens of tiny skids per second rather than cycling around the point of best traction. With these systems I agree with your conclusion and this applies to the majority of ABS systems on the road. There is also the problem of upgrades to the suspension, brakes, tyres and wheels which is common. An ABS system has its time constants and valving sized for the traction of the default tyre combination and the rotational inertia of the original tyre/wheel/brake disc combination. Changing any of these variables can move the ABS system far away from its optimal performance or sometimes these changes improve stopping distances. Paul |
Paul |
Jeff, if you're riding my ar*e through the canyons then I'm glad you installed wider tires and power brakes! Speaking of canyons, we need another holiday drive before long. I wonder if anyone would show up for a New Years Day run. :) |
Steve Simmons |
I disagree with the assertion that MGA brakes are dated and inferior to modern brakes. Would a modern ventilated rotor and 4 pot calipers improve them? Not necessarily, although they would undoubtedly change the pedal feel and they would have much better margin in terms of heat tolerance. If you have an original braking system working well with modern rubber, I do not believe that you would add anything in terms of single stop distances. My Twincam race car was always able to outbrake many other cars with more modern systems - I could outbrake Datsun Z cars, Porsches, all sorts of things whose drivers thought I shouldn't have been able to better them. Because the car is fairly light and it didn't exceed the heat shedding abilities of the system, I could brake from 120-130 MPH down to about 40 MPH into a downhill hairpin, plus several other braking points around a circuit repeatedly for a full half hour race with no evidence of fade. That was using Ferodo DS11 compound. I now use a Carbon-Kevlar pad which is just as fade resistant, but also stops in the first lap (the Ferodo required considerable warm-up before it worked). So don't sell the old braking systems short. If they aren't up to snuff, it is probably a maintenance issue, or you are not using appropriate pads or tires. |
Bill Spohn |
The biggest joke on the consumer in the world is the almost universal change to rear disc brakes. Classic sales floor hype. The amount of work that rear brakes acually do is minimal. The purpose of rear brakes is to maintain control of the car by keeping the rear axle behind the front axle. Rear brakes on the Japanese cars I have worked on for almost 30 years used to last well over 100,000 miles. They were cheap and easy to change and lasted almost forever. In fact I have changed more brake shoes on the rear of Toyota trucks because of axle seal leaks than worn out shoes. Since rear discs have become commonplace they wearout at about the same rate as the front, instead of lasting 3 to 4 times longer. To keep the effectiveness of the rear disc down, so they dont lockup, they have to make them so small they don't last. For a practical matter most cars,not all,would be better off with rear drum brakes. |
R J Brown |
RL An ABS system does NOT necessarily give a much shorter stopping distance. On my 96 Ford Explorer, used for towing and hauling (I haven't found an MG that will carry 80+ cu ft of stuff and tow a 3500 lb trailer), the ABS version has a longer stopping distance than the non-ABS equivalent. FWIW Larry |
Larry Hallanger |
I believe it's a common misconception that ABS brakes will stop a car in a shorter distance. My understanding is that ABS's main purpose is to allow vehicle control to be maintained without the wheels locking up. |
Andy Bounsall |
Judging from the large number of front-end damaged MGAs that show up today, (including mine, which needed whole new front body panels and I can see that the frame has been repaired too), I think the stopping power of the MGA is limited. I speak from experience here, having buried my original MGA 1500 into the softest spot I could find on a big old Buick that turned across my lane as I skidded into it back in 1962. My current project has shoe brakes and I have replaced all components of these, but I still plan to drive with brakes in mind when I get it running. HJ |
Harley |
On my 1960 MGA-1600 (Disk Front/Drum Rear)I could always stop from 70 mph in about 135 feet, which I believe is MUCH BETTER THAN MOST NEW CARS, especially those with 1ST YEAR OF SALE O.E.M. TIRES designed to give a HIGHER E.P.A. GAS MILEAGE figure ("Slippery" LOW FRICTION tires!)! Some of these tires INCREASE STOPPING DISTANCE 20-30%! Gotta' give up SOMETHING to get those GREAT M.P.G. figures! |
OLD BILL-67 |
This thread was discussed between 26/10/2005 and 10/11/2005
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