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MG MGA - How much of an originalist are you?
Just curious, but on a scale of 1-10, 10 being concourse, how much do you worry about originality? I'd give myself a 7-8. My car has period modifications, I don't want any MGB parts on my car (with the exception of maybe the brake caliper pistons which are far cheaper and basically the same thing), but I have done a couple of modifications that are related to safety/reliability. For example, my car is negative ground, I installed a very loud air horn, I have a Petronix distributor, I installed seat belts, and after my SU fuel pump gave up the ghost I bought an electronic fuel pump. But anyway, I'm a little curious how much, if at all, others here have modified their cars. |
Darian Henderson |
To be honest, I'm kind of originality cheat! I want my car to be original (and want to claim it to be), but I also want the best within my scope (I always want to be able to define my own scope!). Radial tyres are the most obvious difference. Most other changes are period or hidden. I have the twin lucas air horn option and period seatbelts. I am a bit of a detail chap; original spark plug caps, bakerlite knobs, hose clips, master cylinder cap, correct colour grommets, fixings, surface coatings and paint etc. etc. I do however like to drive my cars and have not "shown" them (yet). I have changed to negative earth to use an fm modified original radio. I would have no problem fitting one of those alternator in a dynamo jobs if it weren't so expensive. I would really like to drive a car exactly as it was when it was built, however, that said once the experience is over I would certainly want more power, radial tyres and all the necessary (period of course) extras! Neil |
Neil McGurk |
Darian I, like you have also switched to neg. ground and seat belts but I jumped at the chance to put a 3 main B engine in my car. I really like the extra HP. Other than that I try to keep it as close as I can to looking original, after all that's why I bought it. Kris |
Kris Sorensen |
Hi all can anyone tell me how deep the pile was in the original carpets only joking gordon |
g c pugh |
I say I am about a 7 out of 10. I prefer the original look from 50 ft with period mods. But I am not limited to that. I have an NOS Amco badge bar, Amco sun visors, Amco style wind wings, MGTD hubcaps, factory style luggage rack, 2 fender mounted lucas mirrors, Stellings repro air filters, oil cooler and aluminum valve cover and modern oil filter adapter. For a while I sported 2 racing stripes offest to the drivers position but the SO preferred the car without the stripes. For weather equip, I have a stayfast tonneau and hood (w/zip out rear windows), and weathershield sidecurtains. For personal comfort and safety, I have added a Lucas high note horn, MG/AH logo'd seat belts, 15" modified Austin America steering wheel, a tunnel mounted ash tray (holds toll change and the cell phone),a 3rd brakelight, a motorized antenna and a AM/FM CD player. Oh yeah, I went negative ground too. I still run a 1500 engine (MGB timing chain cover), points and a generator, 4-wheel drum brakes, 3 synchro tranny. After reading all this, I gues I'd have to downrate myself to maybe a 5? I appreciate all forms of MG's whether race prepped, original survivors or even trailer queens. But, that being said, I prefer anything that moves under it's own power (often) and one that got driven to an event for others to enjoy. Chuck |
C Schaefer |
I made an effort to keep my cars appearance looking as original as practical. Most people would say it's all original. That is except for MG people. They would know that the chrome is mostly reproduction stuff. MG people would notice the pertronix wiring comming out of the dizzy, the radial tires, maybe even the repro radiator. Unseen are the air horns, and Neg ground wiring, GM brake light switch, aftermarket fuel pump, etc. My intent was for it to look like a '62 MGA without going to expensive extremes and for it to be a reliable "driver". It was first wrecked when it had 3,000 miles on it in 1962. Since then it was in several minor scrapes until in 1974 when it was "totaled" and parked for 25 years until I aquired it and rebuilt it. If it would have been a nice straight original car, I probably would have restored it to as original as I could. However, I don't think I would have driven it as much as I do if I had done that. I would take a driver over a show car any day. |
Ed Bell |
Darian, can we use negative numbers? I just love the body lines of the A, not worried about the drive train, an engine swap to an 1800, Honda or even a six or V8 is ok with me, just don't mess up that gorgeous body. |
Bill Young |
I am with the guys above. Part of my delight in my hobby is the modifying of my cars. I personally believe we are more original than the trailer queens and show cars. You need to ask this question? How many cars left Abingdon factory and became trailer queens? None! How many cars left Abingdon and remained perfectly standard with their respective owners? Very very few I suspect! :-)) |
Bob (robert) Midget Turbo |
Ever since I bought my first car, a 1960 MGA, I have been in love with the lines of an MGA and like to maintain my cars so that others see it as I see it in all it's physical and mechanical glory. I have owned 7 MGA's over the years and still own #'s 6 and 7. However, because hindsight is 20/20 we have the advantage of a perspective that original owners didn't have, i.e. we know where the weaknesses are and I see no good reason why we shouldn't do what we can to make our cars more reliable and enjoyable to drive while protecting the integrity of the design. I have an electronic ignition system in mine, an 1800 head, a mild cam, plan on putting disc brakes in (not available on my 1500), and none of this detracts from the appearance of the car in my opinion. In general I adhere to the policy that dictates that everyone has the right to do what they want to to their cars but am saddened when I see an MGA that has lost the vintage look it was born with. My 2 cents worth, Randy Myers '59 roadster, coupe |
Randy Myers |
Started life as a 1500, gained disc brakes up front before I got it, plus a 1622 engine. Also sporting a tweaked 1800 head, a lightened flywheel, B clutch, B diff, B second gear and a warmer cam. Looks completely original (apart from the Judson) but goes (and stops) MUCH better than a stock 1500. The only cosmetic change is the mesh front grille |
dominic clancy |
I think it depends on what you want. If you want a show car then stock is the ticket. If you want a fun driver like I do then safety mods and period mods are fine. It is your car you should restore it or repair it to fit your desires. For resale stock will probably be the way to go. Have a good day! John |
John Progess |
Gordon - the pile was 7/64ths deep, the problem today is that all carpets are now metric and will need trimming to the correct spec. This can be acheived with a sheep shearing tool Deadly Serious Terry |
Terry Drinkwater |
hi terry thanks for that I'll get my scissors out lol gordon |
g c pugh |
Typical 50s attitude with me I suspect. Started with the car fairly close to standard, then began applying modifications and upgrades. Result: 70% original at 20 paces; 30% close up inspection. Am I bovvered? Nahhh. Just enjoy driving it and finding things to tinker with. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
We have a 59 coupe that had a motolita steering wheel and oil cooler when we bought it.I've put lower profile tyres and radiator overflow tank. Bob |
B WALKER |
Gordon Couldn't you just take the carpets to the local poodle parlour. I'm sure they would be able to do a perfect job, even maybe an optional pom-pom near the gearstick.... |
dominic clancy |
now dominic even I know that a pom pom was never fitted from new lol gordon |
g c pugh |
Here was I, worried about my carpets having wool from the correct breed of sheep and I now find they should be made from dog hair. Malcolm |
Malcolm Asquith |
Now I know where that tick [sic] was coming from. I always thought it was the tappets! Steve |
Steve Gyles |
"Here was I, worried about my carpets having wool from the correct breed of sheep and I now find they should be made from dog hair." Yes, but you can't just go and shave down some mongrel and make carpet out of that. I believe an Old English sheepdog or an Irish Setter should do the trick. |
Darian Henderson |
I'm glad to see that the writer's strike has not affected the writing on this page! Regarding originality, which is where this all started, in my case it depends on what I started with. My '56 roadster was pretty stock (as the North American's would call it), so I have kept it like that. However, if something fails, eg, fuel pump, then I might upgrade it, or make a small change for convenience/reliability (now has a spin-on oil filter, Pertronix, fan cowl, etc). My '58 coupe (currently a project) on the other hand came to me already butchered and in very poor shape. So I made a decision early on that this was going to be "modernised" with MGB disc brakes on front, an 1800 engine, a 5 speed gearbox, better seats, 3.9 diff, tube shocks at rear, etc, but it will still look like an MGA Coupe. Up to a few years ago, I was very anti MGB parts in MGA's, but my attitude has softened, obviously. The most important thing, I believe, is to save, repair, and DRIVE an MGA, if you can. My point is - it is difficult to put a number like this on a person. NAMGAR are toying with introducing an "originality" class/award. Good luck to them. Peter. |
P. Tilbury |
Like Peter above... I would have to go with a 5. There are so many perfect MGAs around that I decided to do something different. I do have factory, carpet, door panels, mirrors, etc,... but when it came to the performance prep of the car, I made my MGA more of a race car look. Much imporved handling, throttle response and stopping. 40 over motor, 2 inch exhaust, same suspension as my vintage MGA race car...This is a driver, not a show car. I sure love looking at 100 pt MGAs but I get more enjoyment driving.
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k brown |
I mentioned above that I started off close to original with my 1500. The 2 major variances were the later dashboard covering and the BRG body colour, although I am prepared to argue the latter point even though my car was Old English Sheepdog white. As I said, I have probably done what thousands of MGA owners did during the late 50s and 60s when roads became better surfaced and parts shops started springing up after the years of post war depression, I started upgrading to match the changing requirements for better performance and better handling. My list is much like those above, but I will list them for nostalgia in order of appearance: British Racing Green (added 10mph to top speed). Vynal dashboard (saved on 2-pack paint). Facet fuel pump (Couldn't get the original sorted). Wire wheels (liked the look, buggers to clean). 1800 5-bearing engine (so smooth). Battery isolator fitted to rear wooden cockpit bulkhead (good modification. Easy to isolate the electrics when working on car, also good anti-theft). Smiths electronic tacho (compulsory with the later 1800 engine). 5-speed gear box (great for the M6 motorway. 120miles to get to the start of any interesting rally or exhibition from here). 14 inch steering wheel (I blame Barry Gannon for this one. He let me drive his car in 1999. The feel with the car is phenominal. My biceps have since doubled). Anti roll bar/sway bar (another must have). Filter king fuel regulator (sales book said I should have fitted one with the Facet fuel pump - another £30. Not sure it has done anything). Hidden lock fitted to boot/trunk (good anti theft device, details on my website). Front discs (needed the stopping power with the uprated engine to be certain I could also stop with todays traffic that I was now able to match for cruising speed). 2 x 12 volt batteries (garage was untidy with the old golfing trolley battery lying around. I had to put it somewhere). Alternator fitted (got bored, wanted to do something. I think it's an improvement). 3.9 differential (getting closer to 100mph at reasonable revs. Can also hear the radio when cruising at high speed). Electronic ignition (still fiddling. Not convinced the original DM2 distributor to which it is fitted is working right). Seat belts (passengers feel happier. Still not sure about being held captive while I am speared with the steering shaft). Next? - Supercharger (waiting for the $ to collapse further against the £). Steve |
Steve Gyles |
Steve, The resto-mods I did on my '56 are remarkably similar to yours. Like yours, all of these (save for the paint) are bolt-on. I saved all the bits, so the car can be taken back to original by my great grandchildren if they are finicky. I added an anti-sway bar, but kept the steel wheels. Also added was a trailer hitch and a small motorcycle trailer for serious trips with luggage, spares and a cooler. BTW, mine has been transformed from Tyrolite Green to Orient Red, and it indeed does add 10-12 mph to top end...but only on on police radar. Frank |
Frank Nocera |
By chance, my engine just died on Monday. I have to say that after all this hard work the idea of an engine swap is sounding pretty good right now... |
Darian Henderson |
I guess I'm about an 8. A PO had put a 5-main MGB engine in my car, and the original was gone. It stayed. A PO had put a then-new MkII grille on after an accident. More original than an aftermarket grille; it stayed. Radial tires. Try finding whitewall (as original on my car) bias-plys. And I put the radio from my long lost MGB in the dash for "cosmic justice" reasons (which are documented elsewhere on the web). I prefer my MG to be a "time machine" rather than a "home made Miata" but I'm only obsessive about that goal in the eyes of some "hotrodders". |
David Breneman |
"Home made Miata" OUCH! How does improved suspension and brakes turn classic coach work into a rice rocket? And, besides, makes the As safer to drive. I'm making the assumption that your joking. In this "hotrodders" case, all stock pieces can be rebolted on the car in less than a day so it looks just like the bulk of other MGAs on the road. We "rodders" don't look down upon the "time machines", in fact its because of these cars that we first took notice on the MGA in the first place. |
k brown |
100 point show cars are ok. They are not what I want. A good looking decent performing driver is oerfect. My idea of a perfect car would be like being married to Marilyn Monroe ad keeping her on the mantle just to look at but do not touch. Such a waste. Sandy |
Sandy Sanders |
My answer is to own a variety. My first a 58 coupe was sold in 1976. I sold my driver, a 57 white 1500, and my trailer queen, a iris blue 1600 7 years ago to support my other bad habit, flying. Now that the plane has been sold I am building 3 more MGAs. Two drivers, a black 62 Roadster and a mineral blue 58 Coupe both mostly stock except for colors. When they are done I will build another "trailer queen" Iris Blue 60 1600 roadster to as original condition. These 3 will complement my left over parts car. A red 58 roadster with MGB front end & brakes and RX7 engine & 5 speed. A thoroughly harsh burner of a car. My Miata killer! And if I stumble across a suitable derelict in the mean time I may just build a V8 car. What ever you build just build it with quality workmanship. It is your car Love it the way you want! Here is a picture of my first 4. |
R J Brown |
I believe that 100% originality is the only way to go. Every single part on my car is 100% original- exactly the way they left the factory. It just so happens that they didn't leave their respective factories whilst fastened to an MGA. I think I'll give myself a 10. ;) Mark |
Mark J Michalak |
k brown says: "How does improved suspension and brakes turn classic coach work into a rice rocket?" OK, I'll admit I was speaking (typing?) emphatically, you deduced that correctly! I just want to make sure that at some point in the future, people will be able to drive an MGA and understand what it was like. My car isn't "pure" in that regard, as I said. But I hope there will always be some reasonablly original MGAs for people to drive. I let my nephew, recently graduated from college, drive my car as a "graduation present" (and that's what *he* wanted). He is a big Alfa Romeo fan. He kept hitting first when he tried to shift from second to third. This left me puzzled until I took posession recently of a Ford Focus to reduce my commuting costs. I realized that most "newer" cars have a spring in the transmission that pushes the shift lever out of the 1st - 2nd gear gate into the 3rd - 4th gear gate. He was used to having that rightward movememnt of the shift lever done for him. I made the same mistake he did after driving the Focus for a month! Do the 5-speed conversions have that feature? I don't know, but the original doesn't. That's historic and instructive. |
David Breneman |
David The one day of the week I am not in my MGA to go outside and check the gear lever position. It's the sort of thing you don't really think about once you have got used to it. I am 98% certain that the gear lever is sprung centralised on 3rd and 4th. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
I'd be interested in finding out. With the exception of my ex's Honda Accord, this Focus is the first standard transmission car built since Nixon was president that I've driven. I think the Honda had that spring, too. New cars also have the annoying habit of requiring you to hold down the clutch pedal to start the engine. Twice now I've started the Focus and then released the clutch only to discover it's in gear. Luckily all it's done is stall the engine. And this, I assume, is considered some kind of "safety" feature! I've got to talk to the dealer about getting that disconnected. |
David Breneman |
David I can now confirm that the Ford type 9 box is sprung loaded to 3 and 4. It's a left push (pull if you are left hand drive) to 1 and 2, a further hard left push (pull left hand drive)) and forward for reverse, and it's a right pull (push left hand drive) and forward from the 3/4 position for 5th. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
Hey, RJ! I wonder how many of us MGA owners are also licensed pilots? Turning 100LL av gas into noise is a passion of mine, too. Speaking of flying... While I know the origin of the MGA design as a race car for MG and a replacement of the 30's look of the TD and TF, I have often wondered if the execs at MG had ex-WWII RAF and AAF pilots in mind as potential buyers. Those guys would have been well into their 30's or early 40's in the late 50's when the MGA was in the showrooms. The production version of the car has a more than a few aircraft-like features, including an "open cockpit" feel with cockpit-like padded "combing" around the edges, and aircraft-style instrumentation (white numbers or marks on a round black dial). Certainly it would have looked familiar to, and appealed to, anyone who had strapped on a fighter or had been in a primary trainer in WWII. Ooops. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, guys. Frank |
Frank Nocera |
I want to have my cake and eat it too. That means a car that's very high on the originality/concours trophy scale, but also gets driven. Just means I spend a lot of time cleaning it before a show. It's your car, do what you want with it. I think the guy that dropped the S2000 motor into an A did a beautiful job and it's a car I'd be happy to own. I love going to club events and seeing the various modifications people have made to their cars. I also like being able to answer someone's questions about originality by showing something on my car. Sort of a reference source, if you will. |
Mark Lambert |
Frank You will get me going! Always wanted to fly Spits and own a PA/PB after watching Douglas Bader's Reach For The Sky. Ended up rebuilding a PA 4-Seater to original condition, also recovered a 1948 TC back to originality. Never got on to the RAF Battle of Britain Flight, had to settle for post war jet fighters. There is something in what you say about the cockpits of our old British sports cars and their resemblance to fighter cockpits. You tend to strap British cockpits on to you, whereas you strap into American cockpits. I found this especially true of the F4 Phantom. At high g-forces, that locked the inertial seat harness, I could not reach the missile arming switches on the instrument panel without having rubber extension sleeves fitted to the swithes. In the British Lightning they almost hit you in the face. Picture of the Lightning cockpit attached circa 1968, bit more complex than the MGA/MGB. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
Hi Steve Noted in an earlier reply, Hidden lock fitted to boot/trunk (good anti theft device, details on my website). Link to Web site, please. Ross |
R W McIntosh |
Ross This is the link: http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgccmga/technic/boot_lock/boot.shtml I thought I had it on my website, but it was a modification of mine (based on advice from Bob West) that the MGCC MGA Register put on their site. I will put it on mine later today. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
I guess I am an 'originalist' only when it comes to appearance. If I can improve something without compromising looks, I pretty much do it. Setting aside my Twin Cam race car and the Jamaican, both of which are by nature instant losers in the originality sweepstakes, my 62 Mk 2 coupe looks quite original from the outside but has some small improvements. The Dunlop peg drive wheels are widened to 5.5" so that I can mount modern 185 x 65 tires. It has a front sway bar, more negative camber and stiffer springs. It has a basically stock 3 main MGB engine (it does have a header, but cam and compression are stock) that passes for original. About the only thing that sticks out is the wider wheels, but the overall result is a car that is more pleasant to drive long distances, handles quite well and has sufficient acceleration not to be boring in traffic. That's my level of non-originality and I'm not about to start hacking anything up to install non-original transmissions, carbs, etc. |
Bill Spohn |
Steve - That's interesting. I bet most transmissions nowadays have that. Interesting, interesting. In getting back to the original subject, I found it intriguing that several people here have mentioned maintaining the appearance of the original car, while modernizing its performance, as their goal. To me, the feel of driving a primitive vehicle is a major part of the experience. I want this car as much as possible to be a time machine, to take me back to an age when you were interacting intimately with a *machine* - a raw, mechanical device which is as much an extension of your brain and body as the engineers who designed it and the craftsmen who built it could fashion. Before I had the Focus my daily driver was a Chevrolet Trailblazer, evil dolphin-choking, glacier-melting, latte-swilling yuppiemobile. What a glorious beast! :-) But with all its electronic doo-dads and computer-controlled everything it is like the MG only in that they both have wheels. The techno-luxury stuff is fun, but it's not *driving*. I'm not equating modernized MGAs with SUVs, just pointing out how the SUV really helps me appreciate what the MG is. It's like a fine old revolver compared to a ray gun. |
David Breneman |
A ray gun? What did Flash Gordon drive? |
James Johanski |
I am with David on this point,I bought my MGA so I could have the drive and feel of a sixties sports car.If you don't like the lack of power and amenities, then buy a Miata and put an MGA body on it. |
A Dickinson |
This thread was discussed between 18/02/2008 and 24/02/2008
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