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MG MGA - I wasn't raptured and my oil filter broke off

Neither my my wife or I were raptured yesterday, so we decided to make the best of it and go to a local concert in the park in the MGA. On the way back we heard a huge clunk in the engine compartment and the sounds of something passing under the car. Something the size of a soda can was seen in the rearview mirror heading for the road ditch. Perusal of the engine compartment showed my aftermarket MOSS oil filter assembly was missing pieces including the oil filter. It appears the piece holding the filter sheared off. The oil filter was hand tight and the assembly has been in place since 2001. Go wonder - you hear endless crap about SU carbs and Lucas electrics but in my experience it is the aftermarket parts that cause issues. We haved never walked from this car in its entire ownership. It always runs. It's on a trailer right now and this evening I will see what needs to be done. I think I will go with an inverted MGB filter assembly. It is not an aftermarket part and I don't want to load the car on a trailer in the dark with cars zinging by again. Anyone else had this happen?
Bill Haglan

Raptured - Ruptured
Even God can't get good help or an intelligent spell checker, and I'll bet She can't get decent parts either!

FRM
FR Millmore

Bill,

A Tony Oliver out here had a similar experience some time ago on his B. I am attaching a photo of his to show the failure point in his case - the filter mounting thread broke at the oil-flow machined section, those flimsy 'arms' left to bear the stress of mounting the unit into the block. Is this where yours failed?

All in all a not very pleasant experience for you.

Tony may pick this up and comment as he has posted here i think in the past.

Regards

Roger


Roger T

Yep, it happened to me. I am still of the opinion that I probably overtightened the filter as it dropped off shortly after a new one was fitted but I was never happy with the thought of fitting another one of the same type after seeing how little metal there was holding it all together. I put the original filter assy back on the car until finally got hold of the inverted type of housing. It was very robust in it's construction.

As an expensive result of all this I had to replace all the engine bearings 3 months later. I heard the filter fall off, but not knowing what it was reversed up the road looking for the part I had seen bouncing along in the mirror. By pure luck I then looked at the oil pressure and noticed it was a big fat zero. After that I also fitted a BIG oil pressure warning light.


Cheers
Tony
Tony Oliver

God ( and Moss ) work in mysterious ways....you have described horrible experiences. I have a Moss unit on the shelf and there it will stay for my son to inherit.
Neil Ferguson

Mine ruptured, but in a slightly different way. I failed to remove the old hardened seal from the main filter housing during the rebuild. I placed a new seal on top, then the spin-on adapter. The seal blew after 30 miles on the first outing, whilst on the M6 motorway. The entire sump contents were pumped out and spread along the car's underside and onto the motorway. I just made it up a slip road as the oil pressure hit zero. Fortunately I was able to effect a repair and drove the car home.

Looking back, I am amazed at what I was carrying with me in the boot in case of emergencies.

Steve


Steve Gyles

Steve,that photo is a classic which says it all about MG ownership.
M Blencowe

Bill,
I had a similar experience, but without any damage to the filter. It wasn't road debris that caused the problem, it was one of the fan blades breaking off. it might just be worth counting them! Better safe than sorry.
Best of luck
Geoff
GM McGladdery

I would attach a photograph but it would identical to that in Roger's post. I will definately be going to an inverted MGB filter assembly. The piece sheared just like in the photograph. The filter and the other piece in the road ditch somewhere. No way will I use this setup again. I don't anticipate any engine damage as it was shut down immediately. I guess my under carriage won't rust anytime soon.
Bill Haglan

I just installed one of these adapters on my MG Magnette, so I do walk the walk.

It's critical that the mounting bolt not be over tightened. Maximum torque is 12 ft lbs, which ain't very much when you are using a wrench big enough to fit the nut.

The bolt is located by a lock tab, so does not need to be very tight.

Anything above this and the central area of the mounting bolt can crack. It probably won't fail immediately, but once cracking starts it will fail.

KJ Dodd

I have one of this style of adaptor in the garage (photo attached). It's been sitting there since a failed attempt to fit it some time ago - my error in that case, I ended up with the unsealed filter seal!

On top of Tony's experience we now have Bill's - some ten years after fitting. My concern with the two examples is that the weakness may not be caused only by over tightening the assembly. It may be that tensions added over time by filter fitting and removal may be progressively weakening the machined area and leading to failure.

If that is the case then there is no way of knowing if or when it may let go - unless one has the good fortune to have it happen in the process of filter fitting or removal ie not on the road.

I think I'll scrap mine. If I decide to go with an under slung filter on my 18GG I'll pick up a later MG mounting or an aftermarket model separating the housing bolt from the filter thread.

IIRC there was an American aftermarket adaptor that separated the unit mounting bolt from the filter thread. Can anyone remember seeing something like that?

Regards

Roger


Roger T

Can somebody post a picture or drawing that shows how the thing is made and assembled? And where it breaks? Dimensions at the critical point? I can't figure it out, and I guess I haven't seen one. But I think I may actually have a car with it, can't get to it.

12lbft is totally unacceptable in the real world for such a part; redesign or quit making it!

FRM
FR Millmore

Best I can do is direct you to an ebay listing. This is from an Oz supplier but I am pretty sure they are supplied by Moss. The part in question (lets call it the cartridge retainer) is the brass item sitting in the O ring. It breaks where the holes are drilled into it to allow the oil to flow. The other picture posted by Roger shows this. Of course the other part of the item is still in a filter cartridge somewhere on the road to Gloucester in NSW.

I don't know the dimensions of the cartridge retainer but you can compare it to the filter cartridge itself and make a pretty good guess at it. The long 'bolt' fits into the engine block through the original housing and the cartridge retainer is attached to this bolt. This holds the adapter plate in position. The lock washer is held in position by the two raised pins shown on the adapter and locks these parts together.

Sequence of assy is, bolt into engine block, adapter plate offered up to filter housing, lock washer fitted and then the cartridge retainer that holds it all together. This is where the torque figure quoted by KJ comes into play. The filter cartridge attaches to the bottom of the cartridge retainer and seals against the adapter. The top of the adapter sits in the original filter housing where the oil seal referred to by Steve sits.

I have had a bit of think about all this now it has been raised again and ask the question, how hard do you find it to remove the old filter cartridge? They make special tools to assist in the removal so it is safe to assume, and personal experience backs this up, that the cartridge tends to 'stick' to the filter housing. If it requires force to remove the cartridge then I would suspect that it could contribute to the problem. Or, perhaps it's just me that needs to hit the cartridge with a big hammer to remove it!!!!

There have also been a few threads on the type of cartridge suitable for these adapters. The wrong one will lock up on the thread before the cartridge seals to the adapter.

Hope this all helps.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MG-MGB-SPIN-OIL-FILTER-ADAPTER-CONVERSION-KIT-/140550558965?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b97754f5#ht_705wt_1139

Cheers
Tony
Tony Oliver

Tony-
Thanks, but it still seems stupid. Moreso now that you told me it is brass! I also can't figure out your reference to the "original filter housing" being involved. Seems to me the cast piece replaces that?
I have put a couple of conversions on, but it was a long time ago, and I would remember this design, as well as my throwing it away. I recall a design that used a hollow adaptor stud that screwed into the block, and the cast housing was held on by a thin nut the same thread as the filter element, which then screwed onto the end of the adaptor/stud. Maybe that's why I usually used the factory MGB parts.

FRM
FR Millmore

I'll try to add to Tony's info here FRM.

Two pics/two posts.

First is 'top' face of the thread unit showing the drilled holes for oil flow


Roger T

Second is the 'underside' of the same unit. the drillings are evident here as well but also (just) visable is the machining work which has expanded out the underside of the drillings to a point that the machining leaves knife-like ridges between adjoining holes. This means, of course, that there is less metal around the drillings on the underside than on the 'top'.

Regards

Roger


Roger T

Roger-
Thanks, horrid, especially with the creation of knife edges just at the already highest stress points. Expressly made to be weakest in torque loading right there! And unnecessary. I just went out to look at space available on a block and OE Magnette filter housing - no lack of space for a real part. That stupid design is subject to all sorts of failure modes, especially in brass. As for Tony's remarks re seized elements, I first thought that the seizure would be primarily at the periphery, which would not stress the bolt thing, but any side loading in removal certainly would.

FRM
FR Millmore

FRM. The reference to the original filter housing was a bit confusing I must admit. What I meant was the part of the engine block that the original filter cannister mated up with. It is an integral part of the block as you know. Just a poor choice of words.

Tony
Tony Oliver

And another thing....it may not be brass. It is a long time ago but I think it might actually be plated steel. Could be wrong though, numerous glasses of good Australian red wine has passed my lips since then which is not good for the old memory cells.
Tony
Tony Oliver

Bill

I have just been delving the archives of our national TV network (BBC) and discovered the reference to you not being 'Raptured'. However, it's just a reprieve. The event has been rescheduled to 21 October, so better get that filter fixed and get some driving in.

For other Brits who have also missed the news item about being raptured see here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13516796

Steve
Steve Gyles

Thanks Steve for the heads up on the reprieve. I was out of town last week on business and there were billboards all over warning that everything was ending May 21 and ads in newspapers. As far as my oil filter was concerned it was "raptured" somewhere Saturday. I will make a point to maximize MGA and Triumph Bonneville time this summer.

Interestingly enough the oil filter assembly shearing occurred on a step downed piece that directs the oil flows. The bolt is 1/2 inch stepped to 3/8 inch and then a piece that appears to held by only the metal between the holes (which is very little). I don't think I would recomend this product, margin of error seems a bit small.

Have a great weekend everyone.
Bill Haglan

Hey Bill, it's only Tuesday. How do you run your weekends over there?!

Mind you, being retired, every day is a weekend.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Bump for reference to this week's story!

FRM
FR Millmore

FRM the part in question is plated steel and certainly not brass,the holes are not chamfered.

Moss should be ashamed of themselves that after so many years of complaints nothing has been done to re-engineer this part.

Graham
G Hamilton

Graham-
Yes, I figured that after Tony corrected himself. I just reread Barney's whole page on this and note that he bought his first one in 1996.
When this thread came up, I was so entranced by the stud breaking that I did not really note that this is the same assembly that also has the element fit trouble. That is a simple dimension/tolerance error.
Good thing there are not a lot more parts to it!

FRM
FR Millmore

This thread was discussed between 22/05/2011 and 08/06/2011

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