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MG MGA - IMPORTANT Brake Safety Stuff!

I have just had a full suspension rebuild Inc coil springs,kingpins, bushes, wheel bearings, track rod ends, spring pans and wishbones.
The brake calipers were removed but not disconnected and everything was very carefully reassembled and checked.

James Horner who had brilliantly carried out this work took the car for a short test drive but returned quickly saying that he heard the front right pad retaining pin rattling.
When he took the wheel off, this is what we saw.





Colyn Firth

The problem was that the pad retaining spring clip had lost its springiness, (it may be anything between 20 to 40 years old)
Even though we made sure that the clip had the correct angle on it, it must have flattened out during refitting.

This picture may look like a pair of insects side by side but it actually shows the new spring clip with the correct angle and the old one with the flattened profile.

It may be a good time for everyone to have a look at their spring clips.


Colyn Firth

James used some racing wire to retain the old spring to get me the 5 miles home but I have now fitted new springs and pins to both sides.
It is a very simple but clever design in which the spring clip keeps the pads in place whilst at the same time prevents the pin from moving sideways.


Colyn Firth

These are the new clip and pin fitted.

Cheers
Colyn



Colyn Firth

This is not such important stuff but also worth looking at.

I have been looking at my brakes over the last couple of years to see if I could improve them.
I fitted Mintex 1144 pads and new discs which has really improved the braking effect although the brake pedal was still a little vague.
I then found a set of new matching Mintex 1144 rear brake shoes and so I decided to fit brand new rear brake drums to get the best out of them.

I was at the same time looking at lowering the brake pedal to improve legroom by adjusting the pedal pushrods.

When I looked at the pushrod ends I saw that there was a lot of wear, actually over 50 thou.

So I sent for new ones, fitted them and the pedal was transformed, the pedal now feels rock solid and the brakes are superb.

A picture here shows the wear.

Colyn






Colyn Firth

A 2nd pic of the worn brake pushrod fork.



Colyn Firth

Colin
I'm worried
"and everything was very carefully reassembled and checked."
and then we get a picture like that
I'd give a first year apprentice a roasting for sending a car out like that---not good--at all
I don't know who James Horner is but I'm sure others on here will appreciate the warning

willy
William Revit

We had a much worse case like this in our club, where the springs were missing and the pins hanging bent in the calipers. Luckily we could straighten the pins and reuse them, and amazingly I had a set of springs in my toolbox. We were in the countryside in Hungary so ordering spare parts would have been a BIG problem.

The problem is that even the new springs are not always correctly profiled. They should actively bring pressure onto the pin and snap into behind the bosses to retain the pin. Even the brand new ones needed bending to create enough pressure to do this.

The price of the parts for the lucky recipient was a five course dinner in the hotel restaurant. That included installation!

Dominic Clancy

Hi Willy
James is the guy who has been pretty much the sole restorer of all of Bob West's cars for about 25 years. Also I saw him tap the pin in and check that it and the pin were secure.

So he really does know every single part in an MGA.
He amazed me when he came back from his 5 minute test run and said that he heard the pin rattling an suspected it was loose.
My MGA is really noisy so how he actually heard or felt it I just don't know.

I just have to bow to his expertise.

Dominic,
it's a scary thought, you certainly don't want to experience the brake pads falling out when you are driving.

I sent for 4 clips and 4 pins and I have put the spare ones into my on- board tool stash.

The strange thing is, I have been thinking of buying these as spares to carry in the car.
But my reasoning was aimed more at having them spare in case I lost them at the roadside due to Sods Law.

Things like that happen to me, dropping parts into long grass or down a roadside drain etc.
I have even once dropped an ignition key with its original MGA leather fob inside the car and never been able to find it!

Colyn
Colyn Firth

Colyn

I thought from your other suspension rebuild thread that you did it all yourself? What part did James play?

I concur with you about James. Knows everything about the MGA and his analysis is second to none. I have often phoned him up for advice when I have been doing various jobs on the MGA.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Hi Steve

I had planned on a leisurely suspension rebuild over the winter but both time restraints and (unusual for me) common sense kicked in.( We need the car up and running for a trip to Wales in a couple of weeks)

I had hoped to strip down all the suspension, then take the hubs and new kingpins across to James for him to press them into the hubs, then rebuild the suspension.
I also wanted James to look over the steering geometry to make sure I had put it all together straight.

In the end I decided let him do the whole lot with me acting as "assistant", I think I slowed him down to be honest. But yes I did get my hands dirty, I really enjoyed the whole thing and it was a great way of spending a day if you are an MGA enthusiast.

The whole job of rebuilding both front and rear suspension took about 7 hours.

Cheers

Colyn

Colyn Firth

"When I looked at the pushrod ends I saw that there was a lot of wear, actually over 50 thou."

Have you greased your new pushrods and clevis pins?

This is often overlooked and can cause rapid wear.
Dave O'Neill 2

Correct me if I'm wrong guy's,it's been awhile since I had a pad out but with the disc on,the pads in place and the caliper mounted how would the pads fall out?? I believe the spring and pin are there only hold the pads tight to keep them from rattling. Think of it this way - when you remove the pads from the caliper they come out the same way that the spring has tension on the pad,therefore the spring is not keeping it in. The pad is not coming out the top,they are too long to fit out the top hole. To come out the bottom the pads have to move to the center of the caliper then out,and the disc is preventing them from doing this. If any of this was possible you would be able to change pads without removing the caliper from it's mount.And very few cars have quick change pads,maybe the TC? Anyway no need to panic if you loose a spring IMHO
gary starr

I can easily change brake pads without removing the calliper, and in the case in Hungary the pads had indeed rotated in the calliper and the lower end was at 90 degrees from normal installed state. The pins had an almost 90 degree bend. I suspect that if the car had been reversed the pad would have been ejected into the wheel rim, which would have an interesting effect on roadholding and have caused a lot of collateral damage to calliper, wheel and front suspension.
Dominic Clancy

Am I missing something here?
I have only owned an MGA 1500 and mga twin cam, never a 1600.
The Twin Cam disc brake pads are easily changed by removing the pins and spring clips.
The MGA 1600 Workshop Manual states that the pads are removed the same way.
What is the idea of removing the calliper?

Mick
M F Anderson

Not the best design - the steel springs are prone to corrosion and losing their grip on the pin.

I would suggest that the calliper is drilled & tapped to take a locking screw to locate the pin positively or alternatively use a suitable large split pin to replace the solid pin - a la MGB calliper.
Chris at Octarine Services

Chris,
I like your idea of using a longer pin with a split pin through it to secure.
We would probably have to get them specially made with the narrower centre section to locate the spring clip.
(We need Steve Gyles lathe turning skills again here😁!)

Gary
the pads just slide in place from the back once you have taken out the pin and the spring clip. No need to remove the caliper.
So it could be possible for the pads to vibrate out if the pins and clip were not there.
Like Dominic says, when driving in reverse, the brake pads would most likely be forced out of the caliper when you brake.

Not recommended!

Colyn

Colyn Firth

Been a long time since I have had to change pads then,matter of fact alot of everyday drivers have come and gone since the A came into our life in 82.Got real good at changing pads and rotors on Jeeps.....
gary starr

With all the mention of retaining pins, when referring to the MGA Twin Cam, I should have said bolts, not pins.
See image.

Mick


M F Anderson

You might be able to drill a small hole (1/16) through the shoulder of the pin outboard of the spring on each side to take a split pin.

Alternatively a drop of loctite thread locker on the ends of the pin would give a bit of extra security should the spring clip fail.
Chris at Octarine Services

The Triumph TR6 uses R-clips to retain the pins.


Dave O'Neill 2

I would have said the same as Chris. MGB style split pins seem the simplest and least prone to failures.

Steve
Steve Gyles

"I sent for 4 clips and 4 pins and I have put the spare ones into my on- board tool stash"

Surprised you can find the space Colyn!
Graeme Williams

I have always replaced the spring clips regularly - had the car 13 years and am on 3rd set of spring clips and pins - but same set of pads. I take pads out every year before MOT and clean out all the dust and dirt so clips get pushed about a bit.
Cam Cunningham

Hi all,
I have reactivated this thread because a friend of mine has just called to say he found the keeper pin and spring retainer missing on one of his front brakes after he heard a noise from that area - pad still in the caliper.

I have recommended he change to the system used on my roadster - a dome headed pin with a hole drilled through it inboard and an R clip so the pin cannot come out. see photo
Mike


Mike Ellsmore

That looks to be the ideal (and the simplest) solution Mike.

When Chris Betson and others suggested using a longer pin with holes drilled at either end to fit split pins, my first thought was to have them made with the thinner centre section like the originals have.

But the dome head at one end and the split pin at the other negates the need for the thinner section which was the original (and clever) method of securing the pin in the caliper.

Also, the thicker pin should put a little more pressure onto the pad retaining springs

Colyn.



Colyn Firth

This thread was discussed between 01/03/2017 and 25/03/2017

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