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MG MGA - Info required on Racing Snout

The September edition of the MGCC Safety Fast mag has an article about the Tourist Trophy races and features 2 twin cam racers from 1961 that have now been replicated. What is special about them is they have what I will call a restricted snout, see attached photo unfortunately spread over 2 pages. If you aren't an MGCC member you may have a copy of the book titled 'Call it MGA' in which on page 129 there is a picture of one of these cars, as owned and raced by Bob Olthoff. There is also a better picture of red car with a similar snout and on the next page there is a photo of 'Dick Jacobs twin cam', from the same period, with a similar front.

The reason for my interest is that when I rebuilt my Coupe as a Roadster in the 1970s I used a Roadster body-shell that had a similar snout and the previous owner claimed it meant the car had a been a famous racer. I always took those comments as dubious and in the intervening years I have never seen photos of a car with this snout until now. I am afraid my car now has the standard front shroud that came off my Coupe body-shell. Also I am fairly certain the car it came off didn't have a twin cam engine but ex racers often gained standard engines once their racing career was over.

I suppose my question is has anyone got any additional information about cars with this 'racing snout'? Was it common or was there only the Bob Othoff and Dick Jacobs cars and have I indeed got the shell from a famous racer?

All input welcome.

Paul




Paul Dean

Paul, Barney has numerous pages with photos of the many MGA variant body styles, racing & otherwise, and I saw one which looked similar to the photo you provided. I've attached a link to the entire section on these "variants":

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/vt1.htm
Nick Kopernik

Thanks and yes I have had a look but while a couple are similar none are quite the same and probably not UK cars.

Hence I am still interested in input and specifically about UK cars as my body-shell certainly came from a UK RHD car.

Paul
Paul Dean

Quite a number of MGA have been modified in similar manner. It may have been done for competition. Or possibly someone had more time than money and modified it just for appearance, and not to have to buy a new grille. In recent years a lot of MGA have been modified just for the sake of looking like a race car but with no intention of ever racing. Just because it has a modified nose does not mean it was ever raced or raced successfully, or has any notable history. Some are just one-offs because someone thought it was cute.

On the flip side, keep looking. You never know. A chassis number or Rego.No. would make the hunt easier. Even a body number night help get it into a known date range.
Barney Gaylord

What is the full reg of the green car above?
Dave O'Neill 2

Paul,
Ask Edward Vandyk on edward@vandyk.co.uk. It's his car and will know a lot of info on other cars.

Regards
Colin
Colin Manley

Dave - There are actually 2 cars in the photo. The one you are seeing is the replica, YRX800, and the restored Olthoff car is now YRX310.

Colin - I have now emailed Edward.

Barney - I am afraid I have none of the car data not even bodyshell no. I know it is a long shot that I had dismissed 40 years ago but as you say you never know. Obviously if it was a mod it was done on a car that wasn't that old at the time.

Paul
Paul Dean

Thanks Paul.

I was rather hoping it was 'LRX'


Dave O'Neill 2

Coming back to this theme I first raised in October. I passed this query to Edward Vandyk, the MGCC's expert, and here are his comments which I have approval to pass on.

Interestingly in the last comment he is intending to publish something on this in Safety Fast (MGCC Journal). Also there is a photo of a TC racer with this mod in Footman James advert (page 61) of the January edition of Safety Fast.

To close I suppose I can say my bodyshell was almost certainly club raced in the 60s, but not on a car of any particular note as it is not a TC shell.

Paul

_______________________________________
I have not done an analysis of the 'no grill' modification, I do know Olthoff switched to it in 1960 as I have photos of him with and without a grill.

The MTWs raced in period with a grill, I am going to ask our archivist what photos we have and will revert.
__________________________________

I have now consulted people more knowledgeable than I and it seems that no factory built car raced grill less, let alone restricted. This is not surprising because of brand identity.

Bob Olthoff was factory supported and worked at Abingdon in the Show Shop. His Twin Cam emerged from the Competitions Department in April 1961 resprayed and thoroughly modified with no grill and restricted air intake aperture. He went on to run in The Nurburgring 1000km race on 28 May 1961. SRX 210, the Le Mans mga twin cam, ran in the 1960 race with a grill. In 1961 it ran with a slightly modified front end, without a grill and with a restricted air intake. This race was on 10/11 June and Bob Olthoff was Ted Lund's co-driver.

Both cars were prepared at Abingdon. These seem to be the only in period grill less cars, certainly in International Races. After period (post 1962) the 'no grill, restricted intake' modification became quite common in club races and I suspect that was likely to have been the genesis of your body shell."
________________________________
I should add there were club racers who 'no grilled' in period but my comments were confined to 'historic' racers - generally those in FIA International event.
___________________________________
Please share but bear in mind that there is one U completed task on this front which is to go back through Autosport 1955-1960 and see if there are any grillless photos. They will be in club races almost certainly but it is part of the story.

I will be publishing something on this in Safety Fast in 2017 probably.

Paul Dean

Paul,
Yes, I will be covering the snout topic in April's issue of the MG Car Club Magazine "Safety Fast". Paid members get a copy as part of their membership.

regards
Colin
Colin Manley

Colin

I will look forward to reading your article.

The funny thing about when I first saw the bodyshell I finished up owning was that the guy selling the running car wanted a premium price because of the snout, 6 months later I found it again in the scrappy! I am sure the scrappy didn't pay a premium.

Paul
Paul Dean

For the most part the smaller air intake opening in front is not actually restrictive. The original grille is somewhat restrictive, causing a lot of air to flow upward over the nose of the car at road speed rather than going through the grille. It may have been that way by intent to improve aerodynamics at higher speed.

When you want better air flow for competition use, the grille is sometimes removed (also to reduce weight along with removing the bumpers). Aside from screwing up aerodynamics, the large rectangular opening looks "odd" (trying not to say ugly). The large opening is also much larger than necessary to pass sufficient air flow for cooling. So with grill removed, the nose opening was sometimes remodeled to be smaller, and it was open season for "freehand" styling. Without the grille, a rounded off opening obviously looks better on the rounded off body style. A small number of "serious" race cars were done this way. The first MGA out of the factory, (c)10106, had such a reduced nose opening when found prior to recent restoration.

Shortly after the cars were out of production the resale value tanked, and the cars were often kept running on shoe-string budgets. When the nose of the car might be damaged by accident (quite common), the whole car might be a write-off. To salvage it the owner might piece it back together with no grille (couldn't afford to buy the replacement grille), and might restyle the air opening in the process (one's own labor being free). There was even an aftermarket body snout called the "Lebron Snorkle" (fortunately not very popular because it was ugly).

In more recent years as value of the cars is rising as collectibles, more are being restored. Some of these will be built to "race car tribute" configuration with no bumpers, no grille, and aerodynamic nose. By now there are far more tribute cars than ever were original racers.

See pictures.
(c)10101 prior to restoration:
http://pennierich.com/maynardsgarage/Photos/BEFORE%20RESTORATION.jpg
EX-186 from the factory:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/vt104_ex186.htm
SRX210 having evolved from roadster to Coupe:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/twincam/tc107-627s.htm
1961 Sebring race cars with truly restricted grille:
http://safetyfast.homestead.com/files/track.jpg

(more to follow)
Barney Gaylord

1962 Sebring race cars with reduced-restriction grille:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/vt104h.htm
The Lebron Snorkle:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/accessories/at205.htm

Street modified cars:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/pics/cc_3.jpg
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/v12/5098_12.jpg

(more to follow)
Barney Gaylord

Street modified cars:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/pics/superamerica1.jpg
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/pics/gw06.jpg
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/pics/manell.jpg

Any number of Cobra clones:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/pics/cobra.jpg

(more to follow)
Barney Gaylord

Race modified (or tribute racers):
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/pics/coupe1.jpg
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/pics/wide_mga.jpg
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/race/race_01.jpg
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/variants/race/race_04.jpg
Barney Gaylord

This thread was discussed between 20/10/2016 and 12/01/2017

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