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MG MGA - inner and outer rocker sill placement

I am in the process of welding on new inner and outer rocker panels as well as replacing the door latch pillar. I have read many "how to's" about the alignment issues facing the outer rocker/front and rear fender/ door assemblies. All the painstaking alignment necessary to get decent gaps seem to apply to the placement of the outer rocker cover. My question is two fold. First, is the placement of the inner rocker(sill) critical to the "system"? It appears the the pillar goes on straight forward keeping the 29 3/4" distance from the hinge pillar and the mounting height of it should match the centerline of the door latch. Once I have tacked that in place then bringing up the inner rocker to position, it appears that there is not much adjustment available. This leads to my second(and obvious to some) question. When the outer rocker cover is fitted and welded in place does it have to be touching the top of the inner cover? I have never read anywhere, in all the articles that I have reviewed, that states that it must. It seems that the alignment issue becomes much easier if it doesn't. Anybody out there willing to throw some juice my way to light this dim bulb?!
Ken Bowen

Ken,
When fitting up the inner rockers, you better check your door fit, as the new rocker is the distance piece for the door opening. You should check Eclectic Motorworks as they give a pretty good bunch of shots of the work. Also, they rework the standard outer rockers to fit properly. They don't from the distributor. I am not sure of the website right off, but you can find it through Google.
mike parker

http://www.eclecticmotorworks.com/mga.html

I've seem people create an A frame or zig zag frame (for want of a better description) arrangement using all the top door hinges and door catch.
This keeps the body aligned before cutting out the old rusty sections and stops the body collapsing in the middle.
I looked on the above site for a similar picture, but could not find one.

Hope this helps.
I'll be reading your replies, as I need to do this to my Twin Cam also.

Cheers <MARK>
Mark Hester

Ken

I think the door gap and alignment to the body is the most important issue. I thinks the sills go where they work best for gaps. The bottom door gap is important. I note that there needs to be a decent gap to allow for some door sag. In my case the left and right rockers seem to sit differently. I have a problem with one side and will modify the rocker slightly to make it work. As long as the line and level look right I will not loose any sleep.

In reflection I have done it the hard way by removing all of my pillars and sills at once. If I were to do the job again I would fit inner sills prior to touching door pillars. Infact I wuld have done this job before removing the body from the chassis.

In my case I have had alot of trouble getting the door gap to match the new guards. I have also reskinned the doors (three times). I tried Moss skins but have ended up making my own. They are actually quite easy to make. I fitted the door frames without the skins and using an angle grinder gaped the door front and rear edge and then fitted my new hand made skins. That has worked well.

If you have not removed pillars yet, my recommendation is not to untill you put in the inner sill assemby. This way you will keep your door alignment and position.

Regards

David Sutcliffe
D. B. SUTCLIFFE

Thanks for the comments all. To clarify a few things. The body is still on the chassis so alignment and jig issues don't exist yet. The PO had done a botch job repair by just putting on new sill plates and welding on an outer rocker cover over it without bothering to install the inner rocker(sill). The rear pillar(latch) was in such bad shape that he just bondo(ed) the outside of it. Real nice for trying to fit the shut plate! So I had to remove the new outer rocker, remains of the old rotted out inner rocker and rear pillar. As I said, the pillar is straight forward in its line up but does the outer rocker rest directly on the top of the inner rocker or do they float(for lack of a better word) within each other? In other words, do they have to make contact with each other when in their final resting places? It would appear that it would be much easier to align everything if the only moving part was the outer rocker but moving this around would cause it to not make direct contact with the inner unit. Hope this explains it a bit better.
Thanks
Ken Bowen

Ken, the top flange of the outer rocker does not weld to the top flange of the inner rocker. It should sit just a bit higher, and welds to the vertical piece (I forget what that's called, the sill?) that runs the full length of the door opening. The bottom flange of the outer rocker also welds to this vertical piece. As Mike said, the replacement outer rockers are not made well so this relationship may be difficult to hold. Also, the small vertical flange at each end of the outer rocker on top should just "snap" into place between the front and rear pillar if the pillar locations are correct. There is a very good cross section drawing of the rocker panel assembly in Todd Clarke's restoration book. I don't have the ability to send you a digital copy, but if you have access to a fax machine I can fax this to you.

George

G Goeppner

For reference go here and print drawing. http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29236
Before starting to cut apart the body I made a jig that fit to the four brackets that the frame bolts to. I used all-thread accross the cockpit opening (before pulling the body) double nutted on both sides of each hole (5pieces) though adequate I will make a jig next time.
Do one side at a time to keep it stronger and have a pattern to measure back and forth to.
Roadsters will lie flat On their side while doing the work. Coupes are stronger and easier to maintain shape properly but won't lie on their side the same..
I have not needed to replace #12,Just 13 & 14 as the rust was lower in all 3 that I did. I also found that #13 was not the same shape from Moss as original. I took the orig end pieces to a local sheet metal fabrication shop and had 3 sets made up. Cheaper than Moss and better quality and Moss was on back order. The ones I had made were tig welded around the ends and heavier gauge than the moss units that were lighter than original. These pieces are for strength and dont touch the outer rocker panels and as such the shape of the Moss units was not critical.
I did have to replace the inner pieces # 33,19 & 22. The location of these three pieces is critical. They locate the width and shape of the door opening and the location of the lower rear corner. Measure the location of the lower rear corner and match it exactly wile fitting #33. #22 fits to the front lower corner, Mine all were solid enough in this corner to make this the easy corner to fit. #19 fits between and sets the door opening. The three inner pieces overlap each other. Carefully fit these 3 pieces useing many vise grip pliers making sure the door opening was parralel and the right distance,the bottom line of the 3 was straight and the corners were in the right places. If you have access to a spot welder it will make the weld more original, I used a mig welder and had to punch a series of holes through the side of the inner pieces that doesn't show then weld through the holes. The side that will be visible from underneath then looks like a spot weld.
On some of the openings #17 was left on and not replaced. Not replaceing it made holding the opening easier and though Moss one would work it wasn't quite the same shape.
These 3 pieces if installed correctly allow every thing else to fit.
Then fit #13 to the bottom location of the door pillars. It is just for strength and should be easy to locate.
After doing the inner rust repair replace the body on the frame install the doors and fit The 2 fenders to the door edges working all 3 around untill you are pleased with the fit. remember that the door can be twisted.
Once the doors and fenders fit properly fit the rocker panel. To get it to fit you may need to reshape it.
Study the Eclectic motors web site. I wish I had the equiptment and talent displayed there.
Call me to clarify any questions.
Randy
R J Brown

Thanks Randy for your time on the phone and George if you get a chance to fax that page it would help give me some extra reference. My fax number is (910)436-5325. Thanks again.
Ken

You know, Frank Graham has some good info on his site about the same process you are in, http://www.homestead.com/safetyfast/home.html Just go to his section about the restoration of his Sebring MGA, there is a whole well documented section there on this aspect of restoration.
Bob Muenchausen

This thread was discussed between 07/09/2005 and 08/09/2005

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