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MG MGA - Latest Dunlop Wire Wheels

Does anyone have experience with the latest Dunlop wheel offerings--specifically the 15x4.5? These are offered by Moss and Victoria British. Victoria British used to post a disclaimer in their catalog about the need to true wheels before mounting them, which indicated to me that their offering was not very good as a new wheel should be straight when delivered. Now in their web catalog, they advertise the superior quality assurance from the plant in India. Can anyone tell me if these wheels are any good and if they are delivered tight and straight?
James Johanski

That is the reason I went with Dayton Wire Rims. They are already "True". They were of excelent quality with superb chrome. They are also local (US) and have a great reputation to stand by there product.


WMR Bill

Bill,
Thanks for your comments. I too am familiar with the excellent reputation of the Dayton Brand. I do not want chromed wheels and prefer the softer look of the painted wheel. The Dayton painted wheel does not have stainless steel spokes, and I see no advantage to using it IF the Dunlop runs true. A call a short while ago revealed a positive response from Moss that the latest wheels are indeed true and that if not they of course are returnable for replacement. They have not had replacement issues as of late, but I am still hoping that someone has direct experience with these wheels and responds on this BBS.
James Johanski

A local MG business that does a lot of volume refuses to sell Dunlops any more as there were too many comebacks. They sell Daytons and get zero problems.
Bill Spohn

Bill Spohn,
Thank you for your comments. Is that Len Drake who refuses to use them? Has he tried in the last six months?
James Johanski

I just bought a set of 60 spoke Daytons for my other car, a 67 mgb roadster and had the existing tires demounted from my origianl wires and mounted to the Daytons. They only had to put balance weights on the inside because the wheels and Michelins were so true. On the road they are great, no vibration at any speed up to 90mph, they track straight and look fantastic.

Andy
Andy Preston

It is my understanding that the Dunlop wheels are made from a stamping and the Dayton wheels are made from a casting then turned on a CNC machine. The Dayton wheels don't change shape over time.

L. Mazoway

I have the Dayton wheels and am very happy. The wider wheel choices allow you to have much more tire selection. The 4 1/2" wide is too limiting. In addition, Dayton seals the rim superbly, allowing you to run tubeless easily. Mine are 72 spoke chrome, 15 inch by 5 inch. I have 185/65x15 tires, the closest you can get to original diameter.
Thomas Lennon

Sorry, forgot I'm in the MGA forum. That sizing is for my 68 B. (My A is disc wheeled.)
Thomas Lennon

I work at Moss and needed wheels for my '58 MGA. We have a test rig here and I checked 7 15 x 4.5 wheels that had been returned because they wern't "True". 6 of the 7 were well within factory tolerance. 4 of those wheels are now on my car. The rear face of the Dunlop design wheel is stamped and there is a welded seam which adds an extra lump. Most tire stores just throw the wheel on a standard flat back balance machine where the non-true rear edge shows up as a warped wheel. The only true area on the back of the wheel is the hub locating surface. To test for true, the wheel has to be located on this surface. Dayton wheels use a non-original cast center which has a flat back, so will mount on a flat back balancer.
Dayton makes really nice wheels, but the Dunlop style wheel being made in India and distributed by MWS wheels in the UK is a really nice wheel too and I'm glad to have them on my cars. It irks me when a quality product like this gets a bad rap because of mis-information.
Another point to note is that a wire wheel will flex at least 1/2" when cornering. That's what they are supposed to do. So when a wheel comes right off a tire machine where the tire installation loads one side, it's likely to have a set. A correctly adjusted wheel will come back to center under driving load.
btw. The VB disclaimer was way out of line and I'm very glad they pulled it. All of the Dunlop wheels are checked for true and signed off before shipment and have been for over 10 years.

just trying to set the record straight (sorry that pun was intended).

Kelvin
KJ Dodd

Kelvin, Good to see you still out there. This was the information I was looking for. Can you tell me what the factory wheel tolerance is? I respect your knowledge and insight, but one out of 7 wheels out of spec is a 14% failure rate. That being said the sample size is small. Thank you for your input.
James Johanski

James,

I don't feel like I have to defend Kelvin but.... Kelvin stated that only one of the 7 returned and checked wheels were confirmed to be out of spec. We don't know how many good wheels were shipped so we cannot determine the failure rate. In a production environment, I would be very happy to find that only 14% of the parts returned by customers were actually bad.

Chuck
C Schaefer

I just picked up a set of the Moss wheels. I'll let you all know how they balance and mount up.
J Bries

Chuck, Your analysis is correct. Only the total shipped compared with the total found returned and out of tolerance would be the significant numbers to use. It would be nice if Kelvin could weigh in on this.
J. Bries, I look forward to hearing your results.

My take on this is that if the Dunlop wheels are so bad as some say, there would be none sold and Moss and VB would be forced to offer a different brand. Additionally, I believe that damage can occur on modern mounting equiment, if not used properly with wire wheels. Hand mounting would be better an not result in the temporary set that Kelvin refers to.
James Johanski

Hasn't the current opinion of the Indian Dunlop wheels been largely based on the longer term effects such as wheels going out of true and chrome peeling, rather than any problems with balancing them (assuming that you can find someone to balance wire wheels)? Real evaluation of the "new" Dunlops will require long term experience. I will be interested in how these "new" Dunlops withstand the test of time.

FWIW

Larry
58A
Larry Hallanger

I took a closer look at the hub portion of the Moss wheels I have just received and see no evidence of the weld that Kelvin refers to.
J Bries

Larry:
The Indian Dunlop wheels have been around for a long time and during that period they did have quality issues. The manufacturer really made some incredible improvements over 10 years ago and since then the quality has been very good. The biggest improvement was when they went to stainlss steel spokes and nipples. The next improvement was a few years ago when many of the wheels got sealed rims to prevent water entry to the inside of the wheel where it could lead to corrosion. It's a process of continual improvement.

James: thanks, I don't get to post as often as I wish.

The MWS company tolerance is +/- 40 thou (1mm) run out measured at the rim well, the front lip and up and down

This compares to Triumph tolerances of 3/32" wobble and 3/32" lift from the factory manual covering the same wheel.

Kelvin.
KJ Dodd

some images of the hub and "sealed rim" which appears to be taped with something like electrical tape.


J Bries

the rim tape...


J Bries

Are you sure that you posted the correct image?

Mick
Mick Anderson

J Bries--Thank you for the pictures. Have you had a chance to mount tires and check the wheels?
James Johanski

Kelvin

Thanks for the update. It is amazing how a impression of bad quality can linger on after the manufacturer makes corrections and upgrades.

Larry
Larry Hallanger

I had the tires mounted today. While checking with some "experts" in the Denver area it was suggested that I take the drive to Tire Source in Boulder to have the tires mounted up. Pete is a great guy and I trust him. He commented that the tubes I received from Moss along with the wheels were for bias ply tires. I'm running radials and told him to put them on anyway. Not sure what that's about. Details on the rims are that there were no issues. He did mention that a couple of tires were a bit out of round (from sitting) but that's it. I have the rear end switched out and now need to do the front hubs so pending weather (8" on the ground now with another 8" forecast for tonight), I'll hopefully get it on the road in March/April.

Once I get the car back on the ground I'll post an image.
J Bries

I don't recall the explanation behind it, but back when my dad and I ran a tire shop, the tire/tube manufacturers specifically said not to use tubes meant for bias ply tires in radials, but that it was OK to use radial tubes in bias tires.
Del Rawlins

In 1881 I bought Moss 48 spoke Indian Dunlaps and ran them for 25 years, until the chrome on the hubs started to fail. "They just dont make them like they used to." I ran them hard and never had one problem. I did worry about those little things folding up in a corner, but never had to true them or tighten one spoke. I always got complements. At the end they still looked great from 10 feet. Thanks Moss, nice ride. Now I have their center-lock alloys. You might remember pictures posted when it was stolen last summer.
So happy to have her back, Thanks God.
Steve
Steve Meline

J Bries, You might want to confirm what your tire guy is telling you. If in fact you have tubes that were not made for radial tires that you should change those out asap. To be honest I thought all tubes made today were made for radial tires. What your tire guy may have said was that your tires were made for tubless rims and that your rims are made for tubed tires. Most tire shops will no longer put tubless tires on tube type rims ( it's a long story) but since your chances of finding a radial tire these days thats designed for use with a tube are slim, you are stuck trying to find some one that will mount them for you. Just be sure to use a quality radial tube and make sure that they "talc it" when installing the tube and you shouldn't have any problems.

LaVerne

Running 48 spoke Daytons
and 60 spoke Daytons


LED DOWNEY

John I mounted the tires (Kumho 165 15) that are going on the MK11 (Dayton wires)and the coupe (disc) recently. I attached them to my tire machine but did NOT use the power of the machine. I put them on by hand, with a bit of tire lube they slip right on. The skinny little tires we use can be hand mounted all you need is a way to secure the wheels. Always inflate and empty tubes at least 2 times to get them to center up properly. If you don't they can have folds that WILL fail. Set the E brake jack up the car bolt the wheel on the rear axle and mount the tires yourself. It will surprise you how easy it is on skinny high profile tires.
R J Brown

Here's the car with the new Dunlops. I love the look of the painted wires. Now all I need to do is wait for the ice and snow to melt off the streets so I can give her a drive!


J Bries

Another thing is that tire manufacturers will put little stickers on the inside of their tires during the manufacturing process. I recommend removing those stickers before mounting the tires with tubes, because they can eventually chafe the tube and cause a leak. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. Actually, I didn't believe it the first couple of times I saw it until I'd patched tubes that were otherwise perfect, with nothing inside the tire, no hole through the tire, and a mark exactly the shape of the sticker on the tube, in the location of the leak. Started removing the stickers, and never had one come back for that reason again.
Del Rawlins

Del is right. After repairing the second flat tire from the same cause in about a week, I purposely removed the inside tags from the reamaining 2 tires. I found that the stickers were made of a heavy polyester. They also had an adhesive that softens the rubber to aid in adhesion. Around the edges of the sticker, the adhesive oozed out and the rectangle outline of the sticker was seen on the tube and it was swelled and softened. These two features combined to attack the tube and then cut thru it.

Chuck
C Schaefer

This thread was discussed between 12/12/2007 and 03/01/2008

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