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MG MGA - MGA 1600 font

Hi all.
Does any body know the font that is used on the 1600 badge on an MGA?
Thanks. Simon
s page

I would be interested in finding this info too Simon, I have been looking at having some special 1600 type badges made.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Hi Colin.
Great minds think alike. I want to 3d print some 1860 badge as that the capacity of my car.I have emailed Barney direct.
Simon
s page

Yes Simon,
we are obviously thinking along the same lines.

For the same reason, I want a 1950 badge for the boot lid, I get asked a lot if my car is really a 1600 and so I thought if I got a 1950 badge it would save me having to explain.

I never thought about the 3D printing idea Simon, I was wondering if I could somehow cut up a 1600 badge.

The number 6 could be inverted to make a 9 but how to make a number 5 is the real problem.

Let me know how you get on, maybe we could share the costs?

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Colyn,
It won’t do any good. I thought when I put my license plate that reads “A 57 MGA” on my car, it would eliminate the inevitable question of “What is it”. It hasn’t.

Jim


JL Cheatham

That's brilliant Jim, got to be the best "back to you" ever! :-)

Colyn
Colyn Firth

When I took our youngest daughter to her wedding using wedding cars tunbridge wells in the A a friend changed the letter on the number plate from WFD to WED using masking tape, nothing sophisticated.

Two slight panics. Firstly when taking car back to hotel with illegal number plate I was followed by a police car, but he showed no interest. Secondly when we left hotel for church with my wife to follow in our everyday car that modern car decided this moment to have a dead battery, thankfully hotel owner ferried my wife to church.

Colyn, you could exaggerate your capacity slightly and do 1960.

Paul
Paul Dean

Simon

I did a little searching on some sites which help to identify fonts. No luck with the badge font. The 1 and the C are unusual in that the 1 has a horizontal square serif at the top as well as both sides at the foot. The normal serif for a 1 is slanting at the top. The C has just one serif on the end of the top curve.
However, I think it would be quite easy to imagine what the numbers could look like. The 9 is obviously an upturned 6 and the 5 could have a serif at the top with the same kind of thinning on the curve as the 6. The eight might be two smaller 0's on top of each other.

Could be quite fun to make some suggestions.
John
John Francis

How close is the mini 850 badge (or 1275) to the sought after 5 and 8 in style?
Dominic Clancy

Good idea Dominic but I have had a look at the 850 Mini boot badge and unfortunately, it is quite different.

I think that Paul Deans suggestion is probably the nearest I can get to a 1950 badge. See uploaded picture.

Cheers
Colyn


Colyn Firth

This is the early 1275 badge, the later badges are anodised aluminium plates and so are not suitable.

Picture uploaded in the next post.
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Early Mini 1275 badge.


Colyn Firth

I'm up for a 1960 badge if they are made
Dominic Clancy

Can someone give me the measurements of the badge - how long is the bar? - how wide is the bar? - how long are the numerals from the 1 to the last 0? - how high are the numerals? and finally I assume it has pins on the back to fix it - - how far apart are they and what diameter?

I have a friend with access to CNC mills ...
Chris at Octarine Services

I think i have a spare modern repro 1600 badge somewhere in my garage Chris, i can send it to you for your friend to have a look at.

If he has a CNC milling machine he would probably prefer to have the actual badge and not my inaccurate measurements.
Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Hi Colin - can you just send me a pic of back, front and side alongside a ruler.
Chris at Octarine Services

I will send you a PM about this Chris
Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

I just traced a high definition photo of a 1600 badge in cad, put it into a illustrator vector file and played with the numbers as they are now just control point drawings. Here are two options I came up with for a 1960 badge. Being vector files they can be scaled to any size, converted to DXF cut files and be used to laser cut or water jet cut any material. Let me know if any of you want these files. I make no claim of ownership of the artwork as there may be toes to step on out there.

Matt


M Grover

It could also be 3D printed in stainless, but a bit expensive.



M Grover

I guess it did not like that picture. Here is better pic of the 1950 badge.


M Grover

I should be working but I'm playing with fonts instead. Here it is in 3D.


M Grover

That's an impressive piece of work Mark.
I have played with CAD a little but have never really got to grips with it.

Chris, is there enough info on this to for your CNC man to work with?

Colyn
Colyn Firth

Colyn, The file is best suited for 3D printing in wax (after adjusting for the thickness you want for final product), then casting in the metal of choice. A CNC operator is not going to like all the pointy inside angles of the design as all acute angles would have to be radius-ed to the minimum radius that the CNC cutter head could handle. It would not maintain its crisp original looking font with CNC machining. Laser cutting could maintain the design with minimum radius-ing. Then it could etch the central bar to a different finish, but not give it depth as original. Casting is the only way to duplicate the original look.
Matt
M Grover

Matt if you can send me the vector files I will ask my CNC mill friend - he has 5 axis machines and will say how close he can get.

I expect it will be cheaper than 3D printing and casting and can be done in stainless, in polished ally or in brass to be chrome plated.
Chris at Octarine Services

Chris, just sent the line vector files of the 1950 and 1960 badges in cad DXF and Illustrator formats.
M Grover

OK - looks like the dxf files are read by his CAD.

Can we firm up on what badges are wanted - 1950, 1960, 1800, 1868???

The plan at the moment is to cut the badges in brass and chrome plate them.

Fixings to be determined - maybe threaded studs & nuts?

Chris at Octarine Services

Good to hear Chris. I can also come up with a 1860 in matching font if Simon, who started this thread, has not figured one out, as he had contacted Barney on that. My apologies to Simon for not coming up with a 1860 badge first if you still needed one.
M Grover

Just for fun I made the graphic for a 1980 badge also, so all the numerals anybody has mentioned are there. Chris I sent you the dxf file of this also so you have all of them.

Matt


M Grover

My apologies again to Simon, here it is as 1860 badge.


M Grover

I would be happier with a flat back so that I can use a double sided tape to fix instead of drilling holes
Dominic Clancy

Just to clarify, I would like a 1950 version of the badge and I would need 3 of them for my car (plus maybe a spare for when I lose one off the car or I break one)

Dominic. I was going to say that if they were all made with 2 mounting pins like the originals then you could just machine the pins off to suit your car.

Then I realised that with CNC they could just as easily be machined with or without pins although the badges with pins would need a much thicker block of brass to machine from.
And on balance, I like your idea of not having to drill holes in the front shroud.

So for me, four 1950 badges without pins would be fine.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

I'll be up for 4 of the 1950 ones.
Gary Lock

Since it looks like a few of you might actually want some of these made I went ahead and added a design for an 1800 badge as it is a common engine swap. I then inspected all the files for any bad lines, cleaned them up a bit and adjusted the 6 a bit. I will send these cleaned up dxf files to Chris (sorry Chris for all the different files) to give to his CNC friend. Also here are all four options on one page to choose from.


M Grover

Re fixings I thought the easiest way would be to drill & tap the bar to take studs - so flat fixing no problem.

When I get the 1600 badge I can send the dimensions and we can see what can be done.

Any views on what a reasonable price would be for a badge?
Chris at Octarine Services

Chris, the modern repro 1600 badge I have sent you today is only a couple of mm thick and so there may not be enough material to drill and tap for the posts.

It should arrive at yours in a few days.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Hi Guys.
Sorry I have been a way for awhile.i turn my back for 5 minutes and you have sorted it all out. Well done. I would certainly like 3 1860 badges.
Now I have some other projects in the workshop so if I go away again can you sort that lot out as well.
Regards. Simon
s page

Well, let's just say we are exploring one possible option in getting these made - there are companies out there that make bespoke badges as well but I guess they will be expensive for short runs.

I am waiting on my friend to get back to me with his thoughts as to the best way of replicating the font and making the attachments - also waiting on the badge from Colyn so I can do some accurate measurements.

Chris at Octarine Services

Matt

With no disrespect to you at all I hope, I have used your ideas to create the fonts in AutoCAD.
I was curious about what I thought the font should look like given the very few letters we have to work on. My suggestion is enclosed. They have slightly more detailing on the serifs. The 5 is possibly the most contentious in how the top half should look. I have also puzzled about the relative width of the inner and outer circles. On the badge I copied the 0 has a narrower vertical section than the top and bottom. I'd welcome thoughts on the details of how they should look.



John Francis

I think it is the reverse - the vertical parts are wider on the 6 and the 0

Anyway, my CNC man has the picture of the original and is skilled so I reckon he can come up with a match.




Chris at Octarine Services

No disrespect taken John. I have found the more minds (with good ideas) working on any project makes for a better outcome. Nice work. I like your 5 and radius' on inside and sharp angles. Only pick is the spacing between the 9, 5 and 0 needs adjustment. One thing I noticed on the actual badge is that the individual number(character) font width increases slightly from outer surface of the number to the base of the number, so after buffing the sharp edge off after CNC work and before chroming of the brass machined pieces it might get a bit thinner on that width. Also CNC work will create the inside radius' on the characters. It will be interesting to see what Chris' friend comes up with. I like product development of this style.

Matt
M Grover

Matt my designs are copied from the outer face of the badge so I agree the base tapers to a bigger size presumably to allow the casting to be extracted from the mould. I think that's why the spacing doesn't look right although I did just overlay a photograph of a badge from the web so there are also parallax errors. My original badges are with my car which has just gone away for a bit of body repair so I can't check sizes.

I think that a 3D printed version might be worth considering. I note that they can be produced in Nylon, Stainless and Aluminium. I have no idea what the relative costs are.
John Francis

John, I had a bit of spare time and did a compromise of your ideas, especially the 5, and ovalized the 0's a bit. I know 3D printing in Nylon is not too expensive, not that I would use that here, but will ask around about cost for printing in metal as I deal with metal fab and print production guys quite a bit.


M Grover

Matt

Your shapes look really good now. I have found a spare reproduction 1600 badge and your shapes look spot on. I have measured the badge and enclosed some dimensions. I'm not sure how to specify the stippling effect (lots of random protruding dots) on the bar although I seem to recall there are standards for those kinds of finishes. I have never learned how to do 3D drawings in AutoCAD but for 3D printing that would be essential. The repro badge was cast and has the split line just over half way through the badge depth. There is very little taper on the edge.

I would expect that a glass filled nylon would be a good material to use as its stable, tough and cheap and I think it can be chrome plated or have a chrome effect. The stippling dots might be hard to produce if it was machined.

John



John Francis

One thought on possible manufacturers. I had my original MG badge on the radiator re-enamelled and rechromed by a company in Birmingham, WH Darby Limited. They did a beautiful job although it wasn't cheap around £100. Much much nicer than the repro badges though. They make badges for Aston Martin. They are still going http://www.whdarby.co.uk. They have no minimum order and could make them I'm sure.
John Francis

Might as well forget about 1960 option as I was the one who put this one on the list, but that was only to get as near as possible to Colyn's 1950 using letters already available.

Paul
Paul Dean

I must admit Paul that I was all for getting hold of a few 1600 badges and experimenting with cutting out the numbers to make up a 1950 (or a 1960 as a plan B)

It probably would have been such a mess that it may never have been seen in public. So this idea of machining some new badges idea would seem more likely to offer a cosmetically acceptable product.

I personally wouldn't mind if the badge backing bar was smooth and not have a "dimpled" finish like the original ones.

Hopefully Chris will have received the 1600 badge I sent him by now.

By the way Paul, are you going to be at the Spring MGA Tour in Wales next year?

If not, mine and possibly one other MGA will be coming up to join your Scottish MGA Day in August, we hope to make a long weekend of it this time. I will keep you posted.

Cheers
Colyn

Colyn Firth

I received a quote from Darby's.
---------------
"If you are looking for quantities for 50-100 then I would recommend that we stamp them.

Tooling will cost approximately £3,000.00., and the badges will cost roughly £22.00-£26.00 each on a minimum order quantity of 50 pieces."
--------------------
This doesn't't look economic especially if there needs to be different versions.
John Francis

Colyn

Slightly off line but it would be good to see you again on Scottish MGA day. It is actually not August. It will be on Saturday 27th July.

Yes I will be in Llanberis. Quite amazing as this is a second year when this event is in an area I knew like the back of my hand having learnt to drive around Ilkley and spent a lot of time rock climbing in Snowdonia.

All other MGA MGCC owners welcome on Scottish MGA Day. We had a Twin Cam from Devon and a car from Denmark

Paul
Paul Dean

Hi. I have a photo of a 3D printed badge but can't seem to upload it. Please can somebody give me the upload photo procedure. Thanks. Simon
s page

Photo being too many bits is the usual problem. I am not sure on limit but I usually stay under 1k.

Paul

Paul Dean

Hi Guys, With your help a friend has printed this. We are getting close.
Simon


s page

Very nice Simon! Is that in nylon or metal? I hope you used the last set of numbers posted above as the 6 was much better.
M Grover

Hi All, Here's is the first fitting. This was 3D printed in nylon using some of the files and info found here and also some tweaks by my printer friend The badge lost some definition once sprayed with chrome effect paint. I will try again later, but for now I am happy with the effect.
Thanks to all
s page

Latest photo.


s page

I have friend with a 3D printer, so can someone provide me the file for a 1950 badge and I will get him to print a few. I have a tin of chrome paint too and will experiment on one.
Dominic Clancy

Dominic, email me at mattgroverdesign@gmail.com and I will send you a DXF file of the last (best) set of badges we came up with. This will be a flat line cad file so have your friend measure an existing badge to set the thickness of the center bar and characters and also measure the general dimensions to set the scale to his operating system. Best to let him make it 3d as I do not know what system he is using and it might not match mine.

Matt
M Grover

Hi Matt

Thanks, will ask him what his application reads just in case it is something you also can export

I don't have any badges to measure (the car is (was) a 1500 and still looks standard apart from the wheels and Judson badges), so can someone get the vernier out and produce some (hopefully metric) measurements?
Dominic Clancy

well this arrived as the first sample on my desk this morning, what do you all think? I only finally got the dimensions worked out on Friday.....




Dominic Clancy

and here are the dimensions for anyone else wanting to make their own 3d model. This was based on a real badge and the images Matt provided above

Or I can ask about getting the STL file

and no apologies for using mm measurements, much easier than all that other nonsense.....




Dominic Clancy

Very nice Dominic! Center bar looks a bit short? Unless that is what you wanted. Good to see real parts being made after all this. Looking forward to seeing it on a car.
M Grover

the next batch will be longer both ends, I just paid for them with a VERY good bottle of red wine.
Dominic Clancy

I now have a source to print the 1950 badges in steel and then nickel plate them. The cost is just below 30 USD per badge including postage, which I think is very reasonable. It took a long time and compares to the other quotes of 90 USD or more per badge


I could mix other badges in the order for the same price, someone just has to give me a STL file for the relevant design.

If you want to print your own I also can mail you the STL file on request
Dominic Clancy

Thanks Dominic for all your efforts, count me in for some of the steel/zinc-plated ones.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Dominic..ditto from me for the badges (3 of).
Gary Lock

Dominic,
Thanks for all your hard work on this project Count me in for three 1950 badges
Regards
David
D M SPEAK

OK, I will place an order as requested - Just to be clear there are no pins on these, just a flat surface to use double sided tape or to mount as you see fit. I attach a photo of both sides of the plastic samples so you can see the details. The metals ones will be polished nickel steel, not nickel plated as <I originally thought. They will also not have the lines visible on these samples

Please pay me 30 USD per badge at dominic@clancy.ch using PayPal and make sure that you send me your shipping address in the PayPal (I have details for Gary and Colyn). I have factored in onward shipping, so that's a final amount per badge subject to the online shop not being totally screwed up.

There is a four week lead time and I then have a week before long vacation, so will aim to place the order by the middle of next week so I can get them out before I hit the beach, so if you want to order, please don't hang around!.



Dominic Clancy

Today I started the project that I needed the new badges for : should be a hoot to drive when finished

This is one of the plastic badges sprayed with Chrome paint, not good enough and the metal ones are now ordered

No idea why the picture has rotated...


Dominic Clancy

>>No idea why the picture has rotated...<<

Smart (or more accurately, not) device?
Nigel Atkins

trying again


Dominic Clancy

We have a delivery of varying quality. Email to those who ordered


Dominic Clancy

Colyn

I can't find your address, please can you email me

Thanks Dominic
Dominic Clancy

Dominic,
The 1950 badges arrived today thanks. They polished up reasonably well but can you tell me what they are made of and can I get them chrome plated .
Regards
David
D M SPEAK

Hi David

I will send you the data sheet for the material by email

Dominic
Dominic Clancy

My car can now wear its new badges honestly, as the 1950 is installed and run in. Just one small leak at the thermostat housing and the SC pulley was rubbing the tensioner. Both resolved with a quick fettle and cam run started and completed without any surprises.

Cam is now bedded in and the next job tuning. I need to fit the richest of my needles (the BCA installed has produced plug colour shown in photo at the end of the cam bed-in so that looks a bit lean to me) I have a BGZ needle in reserve, but now beers to celebrate the milestone

I have to sort more choke travel too - it is currently restricted by the fuel inlet. I think a smaller washer on the trunnion will do the trick but the SC has to cool so I can dismount everything and get to choke trunnion.

Cheers!

Dominic



Dominic Clancy

Just to wrap this up, I spent an hour with some fine wet and dry laid flat on a granite worktop and polished the top surface of the badge to remove the printing lines. I will have another go as it is still not perfect, but with some polishing with the Dremel I think it will come up very nicely.

It's a blast to drive


Dominic Clancy

Just one question - how do you explain the 1950 badge to the tech inspector or is that why you have it on sticky tape??
Chris at Octarine Services

Chris,
you just tell him that 1950 is the decade that the car was designed! :^)

I had one of my badges polished but, although the finish is pretty good, the polishers have slightly rounded the surface which slightly spoils the look of it.

I think I will try Dominics wet & dry technique to see how it compares.

Colyn
Colyn Firth

Colyn,
Just got my 1950 badges back from the chrome platers and the look very good all the casting marks have gone and are just like the original 1600 badges
D M SPEAK

Colyn ,
Photo of 1959 badge the marks in the photo are in fact reflections not imperfectioins in the chrome


D M SPEAK

They look really good David, do you think your chrome-plater would be up to doing another 3 badges for me?

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

Me too
Dominic Clancy

Colyn and Dominic
I do not see any reason why the plater would not do 6 more. I do not know the exact cost as had some other work done at the same time. I can telephone him tomorrow Wednesday and enquire the cost if you want they are not usually cheap but make an excellent job.
Regards

David
D M SPEAK

Sounds more than fair to me as my local guy wanted £200 EACH!

I will send to Colyn as I have another package for him anyway, and he can then pay you and deduct from my bill if he is happy.

Just need to finish his bracket and pack everything up....
Dominic Clancy

Dominic
did you see Davids reply on the other (over rich mixture) thread?
(I think he replied on the wrong thread by mistake)

The price for plating is ok by me and I am happy to forward your badges along with mine, to David when your package arrives here.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

This thread was discussed between 16/11/2018 and 12/06/2019

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