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MG MGA - MGA Suspension

Hi,

Long time MGB, both roadsters and GT's, owner and am finally going to get starter on the MGA Ive had sitting in the garage for a couple years. It is going to the strippers to be cleaned and primed and then probably painted (not too sure what color yet but its original color is black). While that is happening, Im gathering up all the mechanical bits. The motor is a lightly reworked 1800 5 main (nothing too crazy as I plan on keeping the front drum set up) and I am hoping to use the original non synchro 1st 4 speed that was originally in the car (Im pretty sure I can do that but cant remember the starter placement on the '58, if not, I can get a good 4 speed pretty easily).

I am starting to gather the suspension bits together. The car is a 1958 and has no front sway bar and I really dont feel like making the modification to the front part of the frame to make that possible so I am thinking that for how I am planning on using the car, occasional daily driver and definitely a weekend cruiser, it isnt really necessary. I would however like to uprate the springs on the front and rear to negate some of the roll in the body due to having no sway bars. I lowered my BGT with the uprated coils and leaf spring packs and LOVED the results. What is available for the MGA? Will B front and rear springs have the desired effect?

Thanks.
JMH Hills

The MGB needs all the help it can get. Have you actually driven a bog standard MGA yet? I had an "A" when it was just 2 years old, after a couple of years I made a mistake and got a new MGB. What a mistake-a-to-make-a! It felt dangerous on those original cross plys. Up-rated springs mean harder - you won't need them for cruising, the standard springs will be quite firm enough, unless you have very, very smooth roads over there.
Pete
Pete Tipping

I have and, although it did ride well, I felt like there could be some improvements made. It will be running modern Yokohamas (I put Advans on just about everything) and I have access to some very fun twisty roads around here which is why I am looking for a slight drop in ride height and an increase in spring rate (yes, harder). Cant find much in the way of MGA aftermarket springs but there are many options for the B.
JMH Hills

There are bolt-on aftermarket ones available that do not require the 1600 frame extension to be added:

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/fs102b1.htm


This one is from 'Heritage'. I know I have seen more in NA, but brands escape me just now. Seems much easier to implement than a spring change.
rpb bunch

You can fit an aftermarket (ADDCO) front sway bar on the MGA without need for any mods to the front frame extension. See info about it at http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/fs102.htm
Andy Bounsall

My car is a 58 with a 5-main 1800 that was put in by the PO. If you want any pictures or anything let me know.
David Breneman

Interesting. I like the bolt on sway bar. So, what about uprated springs?
JMH Hills

JHM, -- Get the sway bar installed first, after which you might forget entirely about any other suspension mods. Bias ply tires are a no-no for frisky driving. Modern radial tires are a necessity. Modern street radial tires go well with a 3/4" sway bar. I have a 7/8" bar, but I'm the very frisky type and used to run race tires for competition.

Barney Gaylord

JMH...I fitted one of the sway bars shown last year and it took a few hours and came with templates for the small amount of drilling ..very easy.
...and it transformed the car ....stays flat on the road through almost everything now.
Strongly recommend as one of the easiest ways to significantly improve handling.
Neil Ferguson

Have you seen this?

http://www.hoyle-engineering.co.uk/

Ian Pearl

To answer your question yes MGB springs will fit. I believe from memory that the standard (CB)GT spring is the same as the mga twin cam and the roadster spring is the same as the 1500 and 1600cc MGA

I have anti roll bar (sway) fitted and find my car is great, I also have the neg camber arms and the whole set up makes the car turn in like a go-kart!
Bob Turbo Midget England

MGB coil springs will physically fit in an MGA but they are meant for a heavier car and will consequently raise the ride height of an MGA.
Andy Bounsall

Bob .can you tell me more about the negtive camber arms you have? I want mine to go like a go-kart as well.
Neil Ferguson

My GT had 3/4" front bar, solid mounts, negative camber arms, uprated valves in the lever arms and lowering springs in the front. It moved before your brain even finished processing what to do. Thats what I am looking to recreate with the MGA. You think, it moves. Now, since I have the Moss 4 piston brake kit sitting on a shelf, given to me as a present and never made it onto the GT, I guess I should put it on the MGA. Ive read the Guru site and have come to the conclusion that negative arms and MGA levers with B arms will make it possible to run a full MGB kingpin set up? Am I correct in this?
JMH Hills

I originaly built my A to original spec.and it was like trying to corner a pogo stick. I fitted a after market roll bar and 600lb springs that are about 1.5" shorter than the 480 std springs. the theory is that the weight of the car pushes the 480 springs down 1.5" so even if the 600 springs are shorter it don't lower the car much as there is less sag. The result is wonderful the front of the car stays flat through any corner and I can't say that I notice the ride being any more harsh.
Tried stiffer shocks on the rear and it was hopless far to harsh I dont know what to do with the rear I was told by Brown and Gammond that it was best left soft and it would follow the front, but i have got to say i still dont feel that I could drift the rear end its realy skittish. Any ideas for the rear end

David
David swaine

One of the delightful things about the MGA is that it can have neutral handling or may actually be made to oversteer slightly, which is very unusual in the world of production line automobiles. Most cars as produced will have significant understeer (including teh original MGA). That is a bit of a hinderance when you want to go around a corner quickly, but makes the car safer for a novice driver.

A sports car to be driven for maximum quickness through the twisties needs to be near neutral handling. Understeer will run you off the road into a tree head on. Oversteer will run you off the road into a tree tail first. For slower speed tight twisties (like autocross competition), a little oversteer can be good for responsive turn in. But if the handling is dead neutral or may oversteer, it will need a competent driver to stay out of trouble (watch out for the tree behind you).

In stock form the MGA goes fairly well with the optional 5/8" front sway bar, but it's a bit slow around corners with the original bias ply tires. Modern street radial tires are much better for frisky driving, but then you need a 3/4" front sway bar. If you take the initiative to try some soft and sticky race rubber compound tires, then a 7/8" sway bar may be beneficial.

The idea is to keep increasing front sway bar until you can keep the inside rear tire always on the ground in tight fast turns. Stickier tires induce more body roll (at faster cornering speed) and need more front sway bar. If you over do it with too much front sway bar, the you lift the inside front tire. With half the weight of the vehicle on the outside front tire it will lose grip efficiency, the front end will drift out, and you have to slow down to make the corner (trying not to hit the tree). With too little front sway bar the rear end will run wide for the same reason. Then if you let off the throttle in a fast turn the tree in front ends up behind you.

Once you can always keep all four tires on the pavement, then you can adjust the steering character to your personal preference by small adjustment of stiffness of the front sway bar. Think stiffer or softer bushings or end links. Stiffer front end leads to understeer. Softer front implies stiffer rear, which leads to oversteer. Have it any way you like. Stiffer front springs have similar effect to stiffer sway bar, plus more limiting of front end bounce (giving harsher ride on a rough road).

For street touring, frisky or casual, standard ride height, zero toe in, and zero camber works quite well (the factory wasn't stupid). You should get the front sway bar right before messing up the toe in or camber. Slight over stiffness of the front sway bar will make it turn in quicker (think autocross), but it may not be the fastest way around a gradual curve (think road racing).

Lowering the front end is bad on speed bumps and curb/gutter crossing, but may be acceptable if you learn to allow for it (slow down for big bumps and dips in the road). I prefer not to slow down for bumps, so I like original ride height. Lowering front and rear at the same time lowers center of gravity and reduces body roll, but if you do the lowering in the wrong manner you can screw up suspension geometry causing nasty things like bump steer problems. If you accidentally change the front or rear roll center in the wrong direction you could end up with a slower car that might be hazardous to your health.

Negative camber can make it turn in quicker, but also makes for odd tire wear (inside half of the tread). To minimize (not negate) odd tire wear with negative camber, you need a small amount of toe in. That also makes it turn in quicker, but it is possible to over do all this and end up with a very twitchy and unpredictable car. Only the bold and talented dare venture into that territory, and usually only for serious competition. Twitchy front end commonly leads to tail wagging, which is not good for fast road curves or successive switch backs.

So before you go throwing money at suspension mods based on happy thoughts and conflicting recommendations, do try to figure out how you will use the car and what compromises you will allow.
Barney Gaylord

Sorry for the tardy reply Neil each time I got the laptop booted up the grand kids wanted to be playing games, so I had to give way. :)

My car does handle like a go-kart and is very enjoyable to drive enthusiastically although as noted by Barney you need to be aware of the car overstearing otherwise you can be in trouble.

I have MGBGT front springs, (these are firmer and lift the front slightly as I do not want a low car)
Negative camber bottom arms, MGBGTV8 bushes, uprated shocks and a 3/4 anti roll bar. At the rear I have added a leaf and have had the rear springs retempered. This stiffens the rear a bit and keeps it riding in line with the front. Also at the rear I have solid bushes (Nylotron)

The only thing I disagree with above is the toe advice. I have tuned my suspension (As I have for many years) by adjusting the toe angle accordingly. To make the car overstear I tend to set the toe slightly out and to make the car neutral to understear I set the toe parrallel or ever so slightly in. As the steering is turned a slip angle is created in the tyre that becomes automatic toe in, this is then nutralised by the toe out setting and thus a full contact patch is created. Well thats how I have always understood it?

The negative camber arms I think I purchased from Brown and Gammons.
Bob Turbo Midget England

Fitting an MGB sway bar to an MGA without removing the front frame.

http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/f/Fitting_an_MGB_sway_bar_to_an_MGA.pdf

A 3/4" bar is nice for the street.

Beware the Moss (and others) springs for competition as they raise the rate simply by removing a coil and result in low ride height. They can be shimmed up again, though.

I have found the MGB GT (or Twin Cam) to give too high a ride height on a pushrod MGA unless the springs are old and have sagged.
Bill Spohn

You may not need a sway bar at all. Brown & Gammons lists two different coil springs for MGA’s: Coil spring - 408lbs/in 9.28" free length--up to 1500 chassis no 15151; Coil spring - 480lbs/in 9.09" free length--from chassis no 15152. My car is equipped with the heavier springs and I have been very happy with it for the type of driving that I do
David Werblow

This thread was discussed between 06/05/2010 and 09/05/2010

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