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MG MGA - MGB front cross-member in a MGA

Hello,

I would like to fit a MGB front suspension & crossmember under a MGA. Is it a complicated task?
Is it an improvement???

Thanks,

Jean G.
Jean Guy Catford

I'd say it's probably pretty complicated. Have you taken a good look at an MGB crossmember and then at an MGA frame?

In my eyes there is no improvement in technology from the MGA suspension to the MGA. You want a sway bar? They're available. You want MGB brakes? Adaptor kits are available.

Or are you eyeing the tube shock conversions that are available for the MGB and coveting it for your MGA?

Mark
Mark J Michalak

I would say it is close to impossible. The MGB has a separate cross member that bolts to the unit construction MGB body. This body has specially designed strength points to accept the cross-member.
The MGA has a separate chassis so that the body has no strong points to attach a MGB cross-member.
As already stated, many MGB items can be fitted to a MGA including disc brakes and stronger stub axles and spindles (with certain modifications).
Image of MGB cross-member attached.


Mick


M F Anderson

Now an image of the MGA setup with no separate cross-member.


Mick


M F Anderson

I suppose that you were thinking of cutting off the MGA cross-member and welding on the MGB unit.
This would not be practical. The design of the MGB cross-member is that all the loads are transmitted to the top panel where the mounting bolts go, but you cannot fit cut MGA chassis rails to the top of the MGB unit as the result would be much too high. Also, you cannot weld the cut MGA chassis rails to the rear panel of the MGB cross-member, because even if it gave the correct height, it is not strong enough.
This is even before you start thinking of the fixed castor angle of the cross-members etc......etc.

Mick
M F Anderson

The attached image (rough sketch only) shows the only possible method.
I would strongly recommend that you do not try it.

Mick


M F Anderson

There is no reason to use the B crossmember. Any parts that are for the B can be used on an A. I have MGB front suspension and brakes on one of my As. From an engineering standpoint the B cross member sinply copied the A frame segment. It allowed MG to use existing components on a unibody car.
R J Brown

The front track is also wider on the B by 1.5 inches so you would need to narrow the front cross member.
Malcolm Asquith

RJ is right on, just install the B components you want on the MGA chassis. The shock mounting bolt pattern is reversed from the MGA to the MGB so if you want to use the MGB shocks you need to have them disassembled and the arms reversed on the body. Some people have opened up the holes in the body enough to fit, but I'd get it done correctly as this is a strength issue area. You can use the MGA shocks and arms with the MGB kingpin and trunion by using a spacer on each side of the upper trunion to take up the extra space in the MGA upper arms. I found that a couple of 1/2" shaft collars were perfect. The steering arms will need to be shortened about 5/8" per side to get the toe alignment to set correctly. All the instructions are on Barney Gaylord's website. http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/fs205b.htm
Bill Young

Thank you guys,

In fact I did not examined my 1600 Coupe. It is a project car I bought and starting a restoration soon and as suspension parts need a complete overhaul( they are in a box and not in a nice condition). As I found a complete B front suspension for cheap, I tought it was a simple task. But damaging a nice MGA frame is not a good idea at all.

Cheers,

Jean G.
Jean Guy Catford

You don't need to damage the MGA at all except for the steering. Everything is a bolt on. You may have to reposition the brake hose fittings on the chassis or have custom length lines made, but it's all a bolt on. In the photo of my car both the front spindles, kingpins, and lower control arms are from a donor B. The only remaining A parts are the shocks. By the way, when I bought the car it didn't have any suspension except for the front shocks and rear leaf springs, it had already been salvaged to convert a disc wheel car to wires.


Bill Young

Bill,


Am I wrong? But I feel the engine is a 6 cyl, which must be something else than a MGA engine.

JG
Jean Guy Catford

Jean, you are correct. I am one from the dark side who modifies my MGs installing other engines and such. This is to be my poor man's version of a big Healey, a nice high speed cruiser for the interstates. At least I started with a "basket case" MGA, nothing but a body and frame and the body was pretty well trash.
Bill Young

Jean Guy

where in Quebec are I have a 57 Coupe and we might get togeather next spring. gordon
Gordon Harrison

Bill,

Loving British Cars, regroups many trends under the umbrella.
1- Purist with better than original car
2- Daily driver: considering their car made to be driven( It's my case)
3- "Swapper" wich want to improve it
There is place for everyone.
As British very often burrowed parts from foreign provenance, I like the idea of modifying things. Ex. of that are TVR with Triumph, Ford, Vauxhall engine.. or Subeam with the Tiger.

Gordon, I live in Québec city. But for the time being, my A is more a basket case..

Cheers,

Jean G.
Jean Guy Catford

Jean, there's also a 1.5 position under that umbrella. A well-restored (non concours) car, that may have a few easy to roll back changes, that the owner is not afraid to take on the road, at least in good weather. I have one of thpse cars. A previous owner put in a 5-main MGB engine, which I decided to keep since no matter what I did, the *original* engine was gone forever. I also have a 3.9 read end, a good ratio because of that engine. And my car has a factory-original Mk II grille, orignal to my car, applied after a minor collision in the 1960s (when that was all that was available). But otherwise, I want my car to be as much as possible a time machine, that takes me back to the days of raw machinery tackling a back country road for the sheer joy of that conquest. That's a definite mid-position between museum piece and daily driver. Nothing un-reversible with simple tools, nothing conspicuously revisionist (or as I like to phrase it "I know better than Evener." :-) )
David Breneman

Jean, I agree with you. Some years ago I had a factory MGBGTV8, which I loved (never should have sold it) and that had the ex-Buick Rover V8 engine in it. But one day I saw an MGB GT with a Jag V12 engine and gearbox (and lots of bonnet louvres). Much as I loved my V8, would have swopped them in an instant ........... AB
A Bennett

Say, Bill - that looks an awful lot like the 4.0 engine in my Jeep......
Marvin Deupree

Nice ID Marvin, indeed it's a Jeep 4.0 out of a Comanche 2WD pickup with matching 5 speed tranny.
Bill Young

I am going to break this into sections since I bet this program only allows for so many links in a given writing... Please bear with me.





I don't want to step on Bill's toes here but I contributed an article to mgaguru as well and there are more articles that should be looked at.

Specifically that I can find:
http://www.mgbmga.com/tech/mga5.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/fs205.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/fs205a.htm
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BMC Brian McCullough


You should Really consider updating the MGA rear brakes as long as your there by doing this:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/brakes/bt204.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/brakes/bt205.htm

Generally there may be more that you can find under these two headings:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/suspensn/susp1.htm

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/brakes/brakes.htm
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BMC Brian McCullough


-and one about how to rebuild MGB front suspension here:
http://chicagolandmgclub.com/photos/mgb_susp/

BTW: A few pictures can be found on our rebuild here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/bmcautos/DennisOberlohS1958MGATwoPlusTwo#
238 photos at this moment that we decided to download. There are a few of the suspension there that may not have made it to Barney's site.

So, now that you have the info and pictures of cars with upgrades, let us know what you decide. I could go either way with an MGA but if upgrading the front, the rear really needs to be done as well and in most cases, people who say that they don't on most types of cars have never driven one that has been completely upgraded to see the difference in braking. I have had too many experiences with cars half converted. In my Spridgets, its pretty bad. In a few conversion cars, it is as well.

-BMC.
BMC Brian McCullough

Yup. It wouldn't let me post it all together which is probably a very good thing for an open board.

Hope that I am not just bringing up info you have already considered.

-BMC.
BMC Brian McCullough

Yes it can be done I did it with my V8 racing MGA. The whole job needs to be done by a competent welding cahssis shop ( as used by hotrodders and race car junkies like me). Took them 2 days and cost $600 Aust. They set up castor and other angles with no dramas as they do this all day every day on a purpose built chassis jig. Now I run MGB front end parts, lots cheaper and more efficent. The old MGA xmember is cut out leaving the main rails and the MGB xmember has carefully cut holes for the rails to fit into and then welded up. Email if you want to see the images of the chassis
regards
mark
Mark Mathiesen

Mark, I can't even conceive of why anyone would do this, given the tremendous amount of work and expense and tha fact that the MGB parts bolt right onto the MGA frame.

What advantage did you think you were going to get?
Bill Spohn

Mark,

I would like to see an image posted on this site, of where the MGA chassis rails fit into the MGB crossmember. I know someone in Queensland who has an XJS Jaguar with the V12 engine between the driver and front passenger seats, but your car tops that.
Do you ever compete in racing or display days in NSW?

Mick
M F Anderson

Bill, why? cost for one thing - the car is registered by QLD Transport as a MG Special and the front end and other mods were legally converted back in the early 1970s & 1980s during its racing days and I have just had it rejigged as part of a total vehicle rebuild to give a slightly better castor closer to the MGB one. Have you ever tried to buy a right hand drive MGA steering rack second hand in Ausssie? If you can find one, (do you know of one for sale?) it will be well over $1000 + $200+ for rebuild, add to that an MGA front end & disc brake purchase cost & rebuild $500-$1000(ever increasing cost of original MGA parts each year). Whereas getting the complete MGB front end fully rebuilt including supplying a new rack cost in total about $500, plus the cost of professional removal and re-fitment of the MGB front end by a State certified engineer using professional jigs etc $600. Any ongoing parts will be at bargain MGB prices for ever more. Besides my car is an ex-racer special with a V8 so who cares really. I am used to getting shunned at most shows by the purists (although it gets most of the attention from spectators) even though I have usually given (repeat given as in no charge) most non-essential original parts away to the purists. As I said, its my car to do with as I wish, I have proven it can be done and done cheaply and have raced it/driven it on the roads for many years without issue. Mick my modification is not that unusual, look at most hotrods. The Jag you mention would not be street legal as it would at the very least not comply with ADRS. Mine has full certification (its also pre-ADR). MGAs with V8s have been around for many years (although mine only got QLD State Transport approval in 1990 for the V8). I have images of at least 5 using Rover, Buick, chevy and Ford V8s dating back to the mid 1960s. Here is mine currently undergoing restoration,
regards
Mark
Mark Mathiesen

sorry here is my car


Mark Mathiesen

Good on you Mark! The picture has come out a bit chopped, looks good though.
Neil McGurk

Thanks Neil. dont know why the image did that. Hope its clear enough for anyone interested...of course it doesn't show the mga twin cam disc brake rear end mated to a standard MGA 1600 disc hubs...another easy conversion that took just ne night to do...maybe I should listen to the experts when they tell me these conversions are impossible to do,
regards
mark
PS sorry guys, just having a go Aussie style, no harm or insult intended...Merry Xmas to all...Safety Fast!!
Mark Mathiesen

This thread was discussed between 09/12/2008 and 24/12/2008

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