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MG MGA - Modifying pedals to gain extra legroom?
| I have always found the legroom in my MGA a little tight. I always carry the sidescreens in the boot so that I can move the seats back as much as possible but I still find that I have to lift my left foot off the floor to operate the clutch. I have got used to doing this but I have realised that it has affected the way I drive the car. I find that tend to drive the car in a lazy style, keeping it in 4th gear much longer than I should in order to keep the gearchanges to a minimum. I wondered if it would be possible to modify the pedals by cutting a small section out of the pedal shaft beneath the pedal pad so that the pad is moved a little lower? Has anyone ever done this? I have also been looking at the pedal assembly as a whole and it looks like I may be able to drop the pedal heights just a little by adjusting the master cylinder push rods to make them a little longer. (Every little helps) Obviously this is no advantage if the pedals hit the floor before the clutch disengages or if it prevents the brakes from working! But I could maybe modify the floor boards a little to gain more clearance? I wondered if anyone ever tried this? Also I have been told that the 1500 pedal assembly is slightly different to the 1600 unit and could possibly increase legroom slightly. Any input on this would be much appreciated. Cheers Colyn |
| c firth |
| Colyn Sorry I can't answer your question directly. But it does sound like it might be simpler to find a good surgeon to remove a few inches from each of your legs? Not too much as that may cause problems braking! Thinking outside of the box, probably a crazy idea but what would happen if you raised the front of the seat slightly to put you in a slightly reclined position? Graham |
| Graham V |
| Colyn I am trying to understand your issue. Where do you have your left foot during the cruise? I am average height 175cm (5' 9"). I drive with with my left foot under the clutch pedal resting on the slanting board. I simply drag my heel and foot backwards, engage the pedal and push forward with heal sliding on the floor. Just been out to the car. Seems most uncomfortable if I don't have my heel on the floor. It lacks the finesse of movement. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Thanks Graham (I think?), but no thanks! :-) I have already been through the leg surgery experience many years ago when they fixed my broken femur. This was as a result of an extreme motor cycle decelleration event. I hit a lamp post about 50 mph! I have already lifted the front of my MGAs seat by about 2 inches, which is the maximum I can go even with my smaller diameter sports steering wheel but this still doesnt give enough thigh support. The most comfortable option I have found so far has been to carry a couple of loose cushions in the car to place under my knees for extra support. This works particularly well if we are travelling for long distances but it does tend to give the car a slightly "Boudoir" look. (maybe I shouldnt have let my wife choose the flowery pink cushion covers! :-) Cheers Colyn |
| c firth |
| Steve, I am 6ft 1 1/2" tall and so this is probably the reason for my lack of legroom. I have become used to operating the clutch pedal with my heel off the floor but as you say, it is not ideal. I did remove the dipswitch which has created much more space to rest my left foot under the clutch pedal between clutch changes but it doesnt help make operating the clutch any easier. On journeys of over about an hour I find that I get cramp in my right leg too due to trying not to put too much weight on the accellerator. The loose cushion I stuff under my right knee has virtually cured that problem but it is not a pretty solution. So I will keep looking for a way to gain a bit more legroom. Cheers Colyn |
| c firth |
| Colyn, Like you, I have raised the front of my seats, which has helped me. I think you mean shortening your pushrods, so as to effect a lowering of the pedal height, not lengthen them? I don't see that this wouldn't work and is easier to apply rather than hacking and welding the pedal metal. Initially, you could try extending the thread further down the pushrods, then adjust them until they bottom out in the fork, then trim them down, bit by bit. I vaguely recall though, getting something like over 1 inch difference in pedal height when originally playing around with the pushrods. Regards Colin |
| Colin Manley |
| In race cars it is common to put a block under the clutch pedal to limit its travel to "just enough" but with road cars the extra travel allows for wear plus a bit - you can definitely shorten the pin to get this effect but will need to change clutch components more often if you drive you care a lot! With brakes the same applies but it is a lot more important to have a bit in reserve even though disc brakes are self adjusting - I wouldn't be touching this rod unless you are happy to sign an insurance waiver! Modifying only the clutch will give you different pedal heights that can be annoying. Brake and throttle pedal comparative heights are important if you "heel and toe" ie fitting a Paddy Hopkirk plate to the throttle pedal. Mike |
| Mike Ellsmore |
| Colyn, after pulling over a few times to let you past on the 60th Anniversary LeJog, you sure won't have to shorten the accelerator pedal! Just joking, and looking forward to your visit to Oz this year. |
| Gary Lock |
| Colyn I think I sort of understand your opener now. The foot pad face with its rubber boot sits almost 1" proud of the pedal shaft. I guess you could re-engineer the pedal metal pad by cutting it off, slice it in half, cut the shaft width off the 2 sections and weld them either side of the shaft so that the pad is flush with the facing edge of the shaft. This effectively puts the pad almost 1" further forward - every little helps. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| I experienced the opposite effect! At 5'7" I found I had to get very close to the steering wheel to depress the clutch. I have had to make up a spacer for the clutch pedal and some links in the hinge point of the seat back to tilt the back more. Perhaps if Colyn has his legs shortened the bits could be recycled. |
| Graeme Williams |
| If you shorten the pushrods you end up with lots of free play in the pedals, but they still park at the same height, because the pedals have return springs to pull them full up. |
| Barney Gaylord |
| Colin, you are right, I did intend to say "shortening the pushrods". Mike, I only intend to shorten the pushrod a little. I understand that there could be problems if they are lowered too much but these would be due to restricted pedal movement and so I would have to watch out for the following. 1 The clutch pedal bottoming on the carpet before the clutch is fully disengaged which may cause clutch drag and crunching gearchanges. 2 The brake pedal bottoming on the carpet preventing the brakes from being fully applied. Steve, yes thats the sort of mod to the pedals that I was thinking of. I will let you all know if this can be safely done. Colyn |
| c firth |
| Thanks Barney I must admit that I forgot about the action of the pedal return springs. I may just have to think about this a little more. Colyn |
| c firth |
| If you just want to stop the pedals returning so high, maybe the simplest approach is to move the pedal stop bar a centimetre forward. This rod runs laterally runs under the MC inside the cockpit between the front/rear reinforcing bracket under the MC. That way you don't have any issues with hydraulic linkages or travel distances. It should also be simple to do, needing only the drilling of two holes and the insertion of a new rod - you could leave the original in position. If you crack a bleed nipple open that will relieve any residual pressure in the brake system and let everything automatically adjust to the new pedal rest position. |
| dominic clancy |
| Dominic Surely it would be easier to just araldite a cm thick piece of tube on the rod under the clutch pedal, leaving the brake pedal untouched. This would not require any drilling to relocate the rod. I'll turn one off in the lathe for Colyn if it helps. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| That's a great refinement on a basically good idea! You could test with a block of wood and some cable ties to get the sizes right. |
| dominic clancy |
| Rather than glue the sleeve into place, for ease of removal it could be a sliding fit, held in place by a small split pin. This would involve a small hole drilled through the rod. It's not a major weight bearing rod, just a stop, so the hole should not weaken the rod to an unacceptable level. Steve  |
| Steve Gyles |
| Thanks Dominic and Steve, I will have a close look at that area of the car. I have not really noticed the pedal stop bar and so until I get out into the garage and see how it works, I cant really visualise how Steves araldited tube would work. I will have a good look at it over the weekend. Colyn |
| c firth |
| You probably thought of this, but is it possible to remount the seat further back by repositioning the rails??. The assumption is of course there is enough room in the cockpit to allow this. Cheers Gary 79 MGB |
| gary hansen |
| I think Steve's idea of a sleeve over the existing pedal stop bar is ideal. I would slide the sleeve over the whole length and just let it rotate, not worry about split pins etc. To be honest, you could probably "snap on" a suitably dimensioned sleeve that is longitudinally cut, over the bar, without removing it. There is probably enough adjustment in the push rods to accommodate this trial. Trial and error because of the geometry in play. Funnily enough, I use this bars fastenings to secure the bracket mounting my mechanical brake light switch and relay. Regards Colin |
| Colin Manley |
| Colin see this page http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et255.htm It is on a Deluxe so slightly different to std roadster. Mike |
| Mike Ellsmore |
| Mike, yes, that's almost identical to my bracket. Regards Colin |
| Colin Manley |
| Are all A drivers tall? What about short-ar**s like me? I'm 5'7" I found I was almost touching the steering wheel with my nose just to depress the clutch pedal. I had to make up links to tilt the seatback back further and a block under the clutch pedal rubber. I am now very comfortable. If you do have your legs shortened Colyn, perhaps I could reuse the bits to make mine longer, although on the NHS they would probably only fund one leg (better be the left). |
| Graeme Williams |
| Sorry about the duplicate post! |
| Graeme Williams |
| Thanks everyone for the excellent suggestions, I will definitely have a proper look at doing this as soon as I get the engine and gearbox back into the car. It will be much easier to re-set the clutch pedal position when the clutch is fully operational again. Gary (Hanson) my seat is fully back already with the seat back hard against the rear bulkhead. The only way to move it further back would be to cut out and modify the chassis tube that is behind the seat but I am not really willing to do this. Gary (Lock), yes, I must admit that I do tend to use all of the 105 bhp that my engine put out, it is so much fun to drive. (I hardly dare tell you how much power the engine will have when it goes back in!) Are you suggesting that I should bolt the accellerator pedal hard down to the floor! We are still hoping to get over to Oz later this year I will keep you updated. You dont need to worry, you are all safe, we are leaving the MGA behind :-) Graeme, beginning to worry about your double suggestion that I should have part of my legs chopped out to make me fit the car better! Did any of your ancestors go by the name of Sweeney Todd by any chance? Colyn |
| c firth |
| Since many owners go overboard for their cars, having three inches off your legs in a small sacrifice. In modern cars it just isn't an issue - they cope with 5' to 6'6" without any problem and I'm sure in comfort. I wonder what the "ideal" driver height is for the A? Probably about 5'11 with no beer gut and short arms! One problem I found with setting the seatback at a greater rake was forward obstruction from the mirror. It created a blind spot towards the front left wheel (me being short again). I overcame this by making up a small bracket, inverting the mirror and mounting it under the clip for the hood in the centre of the screen frame. That was a great fix. |
| Graeme Williams |
| Colyn...like your fine self I am over the magic 6 ft that separates the advanced from...... I am 6ft 2 in and made mods many moons ago to allow me to fit in ..once I have crunched the joints to get in. I have inclined the seat and have the seat way back with my back a mm away from the rear of the cockpit. I find it fairly comfortable now and the gymnastics getting in and out ( and under the hardtop ) are keeping Arther Itus under control. ..but the bumf on this thread reminded me to remove the foot dipper...just done ...so I have a near straight leg. I already have a dipper switch on my dash which was wired in series . ..but a thought ....I was just refitting the hardtop and it occurred to me that there is a 2cm thick rear wood trim in the cockpit and that would allow the seat to move back that much with no permanent metal removal and the chance to revert when you start to shrink in old age.. It would be relatively easy to rim the metal exposed to look similar. |
| Neil Ferguson |
| Colyn..by the way I checked behind my seat to see if it clunked the structure..close but 2 cm movement easily..so consistent. My biggest problem is getting the steering wheel in the right position. I like to drive with as straight arms as possible but if I move the wheel forward I can't move my left leg between the wheel and gear lever. If I move it closer to the chest then a need a universal joint in my knee when I exit . Adjusting again this pm ..may need to do your clutch thing . The standard male bod in mid 50's must have been about 5 ft 10 and with a long torso....a tall Italian type . I bought an Alfa GTV 1968 and changing gear was a body shifting exercise ...but the car ,...wow!! |
| Neil Ferguson |
| Incidentally, on the subject of height and perhaps the need for an NHS operation, there is a very good reason why tall people have long legs........if they were any shorter the feet would not touch the ground! We had a very serious issue on the Lightning fighter with tall people who had long thigh to knee lengths. If they had to eject, their knee caps would strike the canopy arch - bit painful to say the least. That is why only 5' 9" average height pilots flew the machine. In fact one of the pilots, when he retired, was recruited by Airfix as a test pilot. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Thanks for that Neil because I carry my sidescreens in the boot I can move the seat back a little further than most. It makes the seat back sit a little more upright but I dont mind that. The back of the seat does already rest against the top of the battery cover bulkhead (it has a permanent dent in the back because of this). Also, every time I visit Bob Wests (its only a few miles away from me), Les the upholsterer there, always tells me that I need to have the seat back padding replaced as it has been squashed pretty flat (by me) over the last 8 years. If I do this though I will probably lose about an inch of leg room and so, until the frame starts to show through, I will leave it as it is. A few years ago I thought about changing for some more comfortable competition seats ( the twin-cam style). However, I sat in a twin-cam at Bob Wests and found that I was so cramped that I could scarsely operate the clutch and so I dropped that idea. I do have a Moto-Lita sports steering wheel fitted which gives me more space to get into the car. Also, after I raised the front of the seats I found that the standard steering wheel made it difficult for me to operate the clutch. You do find that the steering is heavier at slow speeds but, so far, I can cope with that. So I will keep plugging away at the leg room issue but I will definitely avoid surgery both to the car and myself for the time being. Colyn |
| c firth |
| Colyn Thinking out of the box as is my want. I was wondering if it is feasible to lower your seat by modifying the floorboard. It's all a bit tight down there with the width of the frame, seat squab and seat back that slants outwards, but I was wondering if you cut out a seat frame size section and lowered it by up to an inch with suitable supporting battens you might get that extra knee clearance? £0.10 worth. Probably would not work. Steve  |
| Steve Gyles |
| Steve, Bob West once told me that someone he knew had fabricated an angled fibreglass tray that he sank into a cutout through the floor boards. The tray was angled upwards quite steeply towards the front and it gave at least an extra inch of legroom with the added benefit of much improved leg support under the knees. Although this would most likely solve my legroom problem, my cars suspension is already lowered by almost 2" and it does tend to "bottom" on "sleeping policemen" etc. So lowering my seat another couple of inches could bring some very sensitive spherical mga driver parts into worryingly close proximity to the road. :-) Colyn |
| c firth |
| Colyn Not a problem in the context of your backside getting ground down. You can drop the floor 3.5cm before it reaches the lower level of the floor chassis rail and the bottom of the exhaust pipe is a couple of cm below that! I was going to say that you could tilt the floor pan in the process, but I was just giving a concept idea in the post above. What triggered my brain was reading the Press MGA reviews from 1955/6 when they talked about the lowered driving position from the T Types by putting the floor at the bottom of the chassis instead of on top of it. Steve |
| Steve Gyles |
| Steve has already covered the point i was going to make re lowering the floorpanel without reducing ground clearance. I have to say that the sitting position in my pushrod car with ordinary seats is far, far lower than in my Twin Cam that has Competition seats, so lowering the standard seats as Steve suggests would be another improvement easily applied and easily reverted if need be. regards Colin |
| Colin Manley |
| In addition to being tall (6'4"), requiring me to drive splay-legged when I shift, thanks for a foot operation I also wear size 14 shoes (US system: 13-1/2 UK, 48-1/2 EU) so my feet don't even fit in the pedal box unless I wear size 13 shoes. |
| David Breneman |
| I'm 6'2" with size 12 shoes and about 50 extra lbs. I cut 3" off the gas pedal which relaxes my foot position. I still have to wear skinny shoes instead of my regular tennis shoes Removed the excessive moss foam padding from the seat bottom. Huge difference. Mgb 14" steering wheel makes huge difference. Also adjusting steering wheel out lets clutch leg relax and move more freely. I think elbows out was the classic driving position anyway. Dip switch removed and replaced with toggle on dash I think less insulation under carpet would have helped. Removing rubber floor mat helped. Here's a biggie. Left knee gets destroyed on side curtain knob every time I use clutch and even at rest. If I remove the knob the threads on door bracket are almost worse. Solution. I lock tighted a threaded stud into the knob and tapped the chrome door bracket For my current restoration I'm considering lowering driver side floor. Tall guys ride too high in mga anyway. |
| Fred H |
| Well I have finally gotten around to playing about with the pedals to see how much I can lower them. The new Weber 45DCOE Carb I have fitted doesn't need as much pedal movement between closed and fully open as the SU and so I have been able to lower the accelerator pedal by about 1". Today I have re-adjusted the clutch and brake pushrods to make them shorter and this has also allowed me to lower both pedals by approx 1" also. I cut a short length of rubber fuel hose to slip over the pedal stop bar to adjust it and then I fitted a length of rubber heater hose over which made it the correct thickness. I have fixed these securely in place with jubilee clips and this worked out just fine. I have made certain that there is enough free play in both pedals so that both pushrods return fully. The difference is amazing, I can now, for the first time, operate the clutch without having to lift my foot completely off the floor. I wouldn't have believed just how much more comfortable this has made it for me and I am looking forward even more than ever to my next long distance trip, whatever it may be. Cheers Colyn |
| Colyn Firth |
This thread was discussed between 17/02/2016 and 04/07/2016
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