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MG MGA - My Last MoT

I may have just had my last MoT. No, not selling the car. It is just quite likely that a pre 1960 car will be exempted from as early as July this year. The Government consultation paper resulted in 73% of the 4000 people consulted recommending the scrapping of the test for pre 1960 vehicles. We now have to just wait and see.

My previous 3 tests showed brake efficiency problems, albeit within the limits of the test. After the last test I changed my fairly new MC for a top quality AP Caparo MC. It was the only work I did on the hydraulic system this last 12 months. The test results yesterday showed perfectly balanced and strong braking all round. It seems to vindicate what I have been saying these last 12 months about MC problems in general and telling everyone to buy the more expensive AP version.

What for the future? My local village garage is excellent; run by a true classic car enthusiast. Even if the test is scrapped, I intend to take the car to him each year for a 'peace of mind' check over and brake check on the rolling road.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Steve....what model ap caparo mc did you install? Why do you think it performed beter? Does it develop a higher pressue?
Neil Ferguson

Neil

It is exactly the same specification as the original. The casing and all the internals are identical to the standard. The main difference is the quality of the machining. I had both the suspect MC and the AP version on the bench and tested them with a simple push and release. The AP version was so much smoother. The finish of the bores was visually also much superior. When fitted on the car there was no more residual binding of brakes, hence overheating during use. I had done all the usual checks on the old MC to ensure the return hole was uncovered etc, but there was no getting away from the fact that the pistons were frequently sticking in the bores on release. I also measured the bores on my standard MC and they were of a varying diameter down their length.

I was advised to go the AP route by Bob West. He reported that he had so many problems with the standard MC that he now only fits AP in his rebuilds and refits them into numerous customer cars that come to him with brake problems.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Or is this MoT change just a mechanism to get our cars off the road and turn them into trailer queens? The insurers will, no doubt, want some sort of inspection for roadworthiness.
Dan Smithers

This comes up just as I was convinced on another thread to shop by price LOL.
gary starr

Gary

You will probably be fine shopping by price. We discussed the issue about a year ago and I believe there was opinion that there was a bad batch of new MCs circulating in the late 90s and I probably got one. It's likely that the issue has gone away now, but I was not going to waste my money finding out. Instead I went for a recommended high quality item.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Steve,

At my last MOT a few weeks ago, the garage told me that plans to remove the MOT requirement for older cars had been abandoned.

Regards...John
J Bray

John

Are you sure your garage is not talking about a separate issue? On 1 Feb 2012 the following statement was made: "In an unexpected statement from the Department for Transport, the Government have conceded that the current frequency of MOT testing is appropriate to the UK's needs and will be retained."

As far as I am aware this has nothing to do with the pre 1960 historic car MoT saga.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Hi Steve, it will be interesting if the MOT for pre 1960 cars is scrapped - I cannot see insurance companies accepting that lying down - so as you say you will voluntarily take your car for the MOT - but I am willing to bet that the insurance company will make it mandatory - so it will be back to square one. cheers Cam ( my car is May 1960 so it could be sour grapes!)
Cam Cunningham

"This comes up just as I was convinced on another thread to shop by price LOL. "
Gary-
Nobody was telling you to shop by price. We/I was telling you that price is not necessarily or even usually the determinant of quality. AFAIK, the "bad" cylinders that Steve mentions were not cheap, but they were crappy.

Steve- An enterprising young lad such as thee with a lathe might experiment with super finishing MCs to fix them. Copper or tin laps with diamond powder are easy to make and pretty cheap nowdays. I have concluded that bore finish is the prime determinant of cylinder performance and life. My Mazdas all appear to have the OEM cylinders after 20 years, no failures, and mileages 150,000+. Bores are mirror polished.

FRM
FR Millmore

It could be the bores or it could be the crappy new rubbers! Everything made of rubber that comes from China (or India) seems to fall apart in no time - bushes, gaskets, hoses, etc. This might explain the high birth rate in both countries.
Peter.
P. Tilbury

FRM

I did try messing around with an old MC in my lathe. I had great trouble setting it up and my tooling was not up to it. Also my skill level was not up to it so the result was a miserable failure.

Peter. The MC never worked well from brand new. I tried various seals over the years and not all from China nor India. Similar to FRM's observation on his bore finish, the AP bore was so visually superior.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Steve-
You only use the lathe to make the lap. Or slackers can buy them.

You use it in a drill press or even a hand held drill. Or put the lap in the lathe and hold the part in your paws. It's just like using a hone, but gives finish however fine you wish, depending on how fine a compound you use. You do need different laps for each grade of compound.
You can even make little copper or lead substitutes for the stones on a brake hone, charge them with diamond, and have at it. Solid or split laps are better for size and straightness correction though. The lap needs to be softer than the workpiece. Even wood or leather can be used for polishing.
The advent of cheap and easily available diamond powders has revolutionized finishing, since they cut so freely even in very fine grades. You could do cast iron with silicon carbide, but for the amount needed diamond is far easier and faster, and won't actually cost any more. Comes in little syringes, used in all sorts of industries now - tool & die, lapidary, glass, carbide tools, etc.

http://www.use-enco.com/1/3/oil-soluble-diamond-polishing-compound

(you can spend a lot of money at Enco!)

FRM
FR Millmore

Steve-
Found a pretty good piece on lapping, a bit old school and before the wide use of diamond, and a bit short on internal cylindrical work, but gives you ideas.

http://www.us-products.com/sitehtml/lapping.html

More homeshopish:
http://www.astronomiainumbria.org/advanced_internet_files/meccanica/easyweb.easynet.co.uk/_chrish/t-lap.htm

Be sure to click the "Index" link on this last, so you waste ALL of your time!

FRM
FR Millmore

I think that a recent issue of Practical Classics mentioned that the plan had been abandoned ...
Dan Smithers

Dan

Nothing to say it has been cancelled on the DVLA website nor the FBHVC website. In fact the latest (April) newsletter from the FBHVC states the following:

"The legislation committee are currently looking at a number of pieces of legislation at present, all at various stages in the parliamentary process. The most important of these are the Historic Vehicles MoT Exemption Review and Transforming DVLA Services.

The data from the MoT survey has been submitted to the Department for Transport along with the consultation response to the Historic Vehicles MoT Exemption Review, which reflected members’ views as expressed in that survey. We understand, from a recent meeting of the All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group, that the DfTs proposals have already been drafted following the closure of the consultation but the wording has not been made public, nor has a date been sent for publication.

At the time of writing the FBHVC’s response to the Transforming DVLA Services consultation has not yet been submitted but in the article in the last newsletter will be the basis of the formal response. A number of member clubs have also made, or are making, submissions and we thank them for sending us a copy of their responses which will be kept on file. The All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicles Group has also requested a copy of the FBHVC consultation response."

Steve
Steve Gyles

On polishing and honing, I had my original and new old stock Lockheed MC honed by Apperley Honing in Cheltenham. They did a great job at a reasonable price and we concluded the original MC was not really usable with some pitting after honing to maximum size.

John
John Francis

Steve, I take it back. I re-read the article. What it actually says is that despite the results of the survey, most of the clubs and enthusiasts are opposed to it.
Dan Smithers

i've checked with my local MOT station who are car enthusiasts, and they are still of the view that the proposal has been shelved.
J Bray

I was talking to them when I took my car for its MoT, and they said that they hadn't heard that it was to be changed. There was another chap there with his MGBGTV8 (also has a TD) and our conclusion was that if the MoT does go, then the insurers will want to impose something very similar anyway.
Dan Smithers

You were right Steve - comes into operation on 18th November and mine misses out by a few months being born on 6th May 1960.
Cam Cunningham

An example I recall on the benefits to old cars of an MOT is that last year I discussed with my local garage the problem of my car not keeping straight if I braked hard - wheels locked. We put the car on the rolling road and found that the front off side caliper was not as efficient as the nearside and was causing the problem. I should explain that I had to ask for the car to go on the rolling road since normally it does not because there are no brake figures for the MGA. My garage just takes the car down the road and lays on the brakes. Without an MOT I would probably have let the problem go on for longer perhaps until it got more severe.
J H Cole

This is what the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs announced today:

"Historic Vehicles MoT Exemption Review Posted by admin on 21-05-2012

Mike Penning, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport, has announced the results of the Historic Vehicles MoT Exemption Review. The DfT is in favour of exemption for pre-1960 vehicles and it is proposed this will take effect from 18 November 2012. Owners of exempted vehicles will be able to take them for a voluntary test under the new regulations.

The FBHVC’s initial response is a guarded welcome to a result that matches the wishes of the majority of respondents to the Federation’s MoT survey. We hope to get more information about the detail of the proposals from the DfT in due course, in order to make a proper assessment – particularly about passenger carrying vehicles in commercial use which we were surprised to note are also to be exempt from MoT testing.

In general historic vehicle owners are law abiding and safety conscious and are aware that they have a duty to ensure their vehicles are in a roadworthy condition and accept the exemption from MoT testing is not an excuse for poor maintenance."

My thoughts:

What I wonder is why they have chosen pre 1960 vehicles, as opposed to pre 1972 vehicles that are classified also as historic. I was under the impression that one of the reasons for the MoT exemption was to get rid of a layer of bureaucracy on a test that is clearly geared for modern cars and has to be adapted for the relatively few and 'little' used historic vehicles. It would have made sense (to me) to have aligned the dates together so that all pre 1972 cars are exempt the Road Fund Licence (as they are at the moment) and the MoT.

For myself, I will certainly be having my car voluntary inspected each year for peace of mind on safety aspects.

Steve
Steve Gyles

This thread was discussed between 01/05/2012 and 21/05/2012

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