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MG MGA - nuts and bolts

When I did my rebuild some 12 years ago I reused some of the original fixings as they were in good condition. Now I'd like to replace many of them with new Stainless steel or zinc plated but would like to prepare an order list in advance of their removal. Has anyone ever tabulated the main fixings? Brown and Gammons used to provide some limited info in their catalogue but it's not enough to fully identify everything.
J H Cole

re my previous message, just gone into archives and found Barny's info on fixings, should have looked first!
Barney, I may be missing something but is the bolt spec generally comprehensive, for ex bolt BTB198 (Moss ref)and ACB5255 (B&G)?
J H Cole

J H Cole,we are just getting to the end of a restoration. When we dismantled the car ,we counted/cross checked and ordered replacements. When putting the car back together I was constantly buying bolt sizes I had run out of.I dont think I made the car any bigger but I seem to have put more bolts back on than I took off. BW
Bob Walker

I don't know who compiled it but someone prepared a very comprehensive list of all the screw sizes, lengths, etc. as they were dismantling a very original 1960 coupe so they could get them all plated and put back correctly.

I was constantly referring to this during my restoration.
It was a little bit difficult in finding things in the list because it wasn't in alphabetic order so I converted it to Excel and it's now possible to sort it on screw size, alphabetic order or whatever.

I've also translated it from American to English!!. If anyone wants the file just post your e-mail address............................Mike
m.j. moore

Hi JH
I have replaced quite a few set-screws, washers and spring washers with stainless steel ones on my MGA, as and when I have had reason to remove the original ones. This summer I also intend to replace the flat washers and set-screws that fasten the wings onto the car (fenders in the USA)

A couple of things worth mentioning.

Stainless steel set-screws are apparently inclined to corrode onto normal steel threads, a process I think is caused by electrolitic action (or similar) between the two different steels.
I applied a good smear of copper grease onto the threads when I fitted them and have had no problem.

The second point is that normal stainless steel may not have the same tensile strength as the steel used on the original set-screws and bolts.
It will be fine general applications, wings, brackets and so on but I would use the correct steel bolts for suspension, engine, brakes, shock absorbers, back axle mounting etc where you really do need to be sure they will not break.

Mike, can I have a copy of your Excel list of screw threads etc if you dont mind.

Thanks

Colyn

c firth

Mike, I would appreciate a copy of your excel file, thanks.

My email address is wellardm/optusnt.com.au

Thanks,
Mark
M Wellard

Mike -- I would appreciate a copy of your spreadsheet, as well.

fbruns (at) verizon (dot) net

Frank
FJ Bruns

durning my frame off restore on 56A, I have reused 98% of all the orginial bolts nuts and washers. The would clean them, run through a glass bead cabinet, acid etch, and then I bought a tin/zinc plating system from Eastwood and replated them. I have hundreds of hours into this process but the hardware when done looks really nice. All the bolts/nuts/washers were then put into ziplock bags and labeled as to what they fit. Attaced are a few pic of finished hardware.


Ron Bissland

Some finished product


Ron Bissland

Colyn,Mark,Frank,

I've just sent over the XL file. Let me know if you don't get it.............................Mike
m.j. moore

> Stainless steel set-screws are apparently inclined to
> corrode onto normal steel threads, a process I think
> is caused by electrolitic action (or similar) between
> the two different steels.
>
> I applied a good smear of copper grease onto the
> threads when I fitted them and have had no problem.

What's actually happening is that the stainless fasteners are galling against the carbon steel threads, because the stainless is softer. The preventative measure is still the anti-seize lubricant as you describe.

And you are spot on about the stainless fasteners being weaker than most carbon steel fasteners.

Edit to add; with stainless fasteners into aluminum parts, you can indeed get corrosion. The stainless causes the aluminum to corrode, because the aluminum is anodic in the galvanic relationship between the two metals.
Del Rawlins

Thanks for the corrections del, I knew there was a problem with stainless steel screws Into steel and how to get around it but didn't know ffully know the reason.

Thanks for the excel llist mike

Colyn

c firth

Wow Ron that was quite the project. I have one of those kits that I use for miscellaneous parts but I cannot imagine the work. Somewhere I have a list I made of the size,length and head markings and where they went on the car but cannot find it.Here is a pic of all the parts I had cad plated. It used to be a dollar a pound,50 dollar minimum


gary starr


On the question of the differing strength of s steel bolts versus high strength steel bolts is this an issue anywhere? If you consider say the bolts that connect the wishbone pivots to the chassis cross member, these take quite a lot of load and is it sufficient to use s steel here or should the considerably stronger 8.8 high strenth bolts be used?
MJ thanks for offer, email is johncolearch@waitrose.com
J H Cole

Thanks Mike,

I just realised here was atypo in my email address - should have been wellardm/optusnet.com.au

Sorry for the confusion,
Mark
M Wellard

Call me naïve but I tend to believe those chaps at Abingdon had an idea of what they were doing when they specified fasteners and other parts. They might have had some cost or production constraints but I doubt they were willing to compromise safety.

I don’t go along with the apparently widely held view on some of these boards that anything and everything on the cars can or should be “upgraded” with something different.

For the example of the bolts that connect the wishbone pivots to the chassis cross member,
That bolt has a specific Part Number - ACB 5255. Having a specific number and not a general fastener reference indicates that the bolt is not a standard bolt. Variations from standard might be some or all of material and strength etc, surface finish, closeness of fit of the thread, length or diameter fit of the shank.

I suspect ( but do not definitely know ) that for that bolt it is possibly the length &/or diameter of the shank in order to give a good fit in the wishbone pivot and the cross member.

But that said, I’ve no idea whether what any particular vendor might supply against that part number meets the original specification, and there are probably plenty of cars running around with generic bolts in that location.


If that list of fasteners is the one created by Dominic Clancy then yes it is very good, and has a bit more information than the parts list about specific locations ( But, he had a few screw lengths incorrect, possibly he included the heads &/or points, I don’t exactly remember. ).

I found it very helpful, and probably spent more time than I should in changing colour codes on the list as worked on my re-assembly.

Eg Red = needs to be replaced ( missing or damaged )
Orange = needs cleaning etc
Light Green = ready to install
Dark Green = Installed ( Yippee ).

Have fun,

Jim
J N Gibson

To echo what Jim said, the structural fasteners in the suspension are probably among the last places I would ever want to use stainless steel. Some of those fastenings are marginal to begin with.

The following are not the specific fasteners that were asked about, but I have gotten way farther down the rabbit hole of front suspension hardware than I ever wanted to:

http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?2,2021722

Del Rawlins

The Excel list was not created by me, I just put it on my site so it was easy to find. I am sorry to say I cannot remember where it came from, but Barney has it on his site too, and may also have a source. As I remember it applies to the coupe, so probably has a few extras compared to the roadster.
Dominic Cancy

Continuing the point on fixing strengths I asked MG Owners Club spares Dept if they knew the rating of their fixings ie bolts and in particular ATB 5255 and all they could give me was that it was 'fit for purpose. This did not really surprise me and they may have been perfectly right about their assertion but it doesn't inspire any confidence. The alternative would be to go to a specialist classic car fixings supplier(if you know exactly the bolt spec)and get high strengths bolts that they warrant, which comes back to the start of this thread.
J H Cole

Mike
A copy of your spreadsheet would be very useful. Many thanks. My e-mail address is mgaman@btinternet.com

Regards
David
D Jacobs

This thread was discussed between 27/01/2014 and 28/01/2014

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