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MG MGA - OEM vs Repro Brake Cylinders..?

I need to replace my rear brake cylinders and see that the Moss catalog lists two versions ...Lockheed/Delphi and Aftermarket(repro)..with a very large price difference..$117vs$35. My question is has anyone used the current aftermarket offering ....Would I be
better off getting the Lockheed .....Mine are very pitted and I have been told not to bother with the rebuild kit...what are your thoughts and experience with the two types......Tom
Thomas Koch

I recently fitted the Classic Gold aftermarket rear cylinders, they work just fine and went in without requiring any fettling at all.

For $35 it certainly isn't worth messing around with a rebuild, even if I did believe in second hand brake parts......
dominic clancy

Since our systems are single rather than a more modern dual system you have to make up your mind where you want to save money. Do you want to save $160 now or spend more later. If one of those 35 dollar cylinders gives out while driving how much will you be saving then? How do you explain to others that you went with the lower priced ones? As you can tell I personally don't think brakes are a place to compromise.
gary starr

I also don't compromise on brakes, but having installed the Classic Gold rear cylinders, my brakes are much better than with the 20-year old (but still optically perfect) Lockheed cylinders that were installed before, even though I had regularly changed the seals.

Brakes require regular maintenance. In my book it is better to spend $35 and do the job regularly than spend $130 and expect to never do it again. More expensive is NOT always better. At least with the a regular service interval, the rubber seals get replaced, and that HAS to be better than relying on old rubber.

I have now come to the conclusion it is also time to change the master cylinder and the front calipers too- after 23 years and a hundred thousand miles, the improvement from replacing the rear cylinders has made me realize that although everything LOOKS fine, age and wear are still having an effect that warrants a renewal.
dominic clancy

Im not saying that I expect the more expensive replacements to last forever. What Im saying is why do you think they are cheaper? something has to be different- rubber quality? metallurgy? the 12 year old putting them together? I don't know but you get in a accident on this side of the pond and a "good" lawyer might find someone who does.
gary starr

"What Im saying is why do you think they are cheaper?"

I posted a statement recently from a certain big supplier as to why an axle set of brake shoes for TD cost $100 - "Because we can."

There are 6 billion wheel cylinders made every rear at a price around $20 each. Low but not extremely limited production ones can be expected to cost a bit more, like $35. These would come from a modern high production factory, and likely use the same machine work and seals modern cars use, which last an order of magnitude better than the OE ones did. So called "OEM" ones can be sold to the easily duped for outrageous prices. They will either be truly rare NOS units, with obsolete rubber of unknown condition, or modern repros, likely made in the same factory as the $35 ones. Worse yet, they might come from one of the really crappy backyard SE Asia repro shops, where they melt down last years sneakers to produce the garbage rubber we have all seen go bad in the package. Ask Steve Gyles about his MC experience.

Take your pick.

FRM
FR Millmore

Who makes the cylinders with AP stamped on the them?
Thomas Koch

Just as an extra comment to support Fletcher's, a friend of mine has a Fiat 500 (old style) and an OEM wheel cylinder costs $20. Why it should cost $160 for an MGA one is beyond me.

dominic clancy

Hydraulic brakes were invented by Malcolm Loughead, who changed his name to Lockheed. He is better known for aircraft company he and brother started.
Duesenberg used these brakes in 1921 LeMans winning car, and Chrysler put them in production c1924. Licensing then spread the brakes and the name worldwide.
AP was the successor to Lockheed and most of the rest of the British auto parts industry. These companies have been merged, split, re-merged, sold, dissected, resurrected, renamed, reconstituted etc.

One offshoot is Caparo AP, these are as good as it gets; they make the new and very good MGA master cylinders now.
Lockeed/Delphi is a US owned child of this unholy business.
Older cylinders may have been made with AP on them, under one of the other incarnations. And since it is just two letters, all sorts of people might be using the mark, trademark law be damned. There is at least one Taiwanese apparently OE level parts company going by AP. It is entirely possible that the cheap Moss cylinders are made by the very same Lockheed/Delphi who make the "Name brand" such is not unknown.
I doubt you could tell who made the cylinders unless there is further documentation supplied.

FRM
FR Millmore

Why not have your cylinders resleeved or rebuilt by a company such as Apple hydraulics or White Post restorations?
david kirkpatrick

The new version blew out the seal in one I worked on last year. It was less than a year old. Admittedly I was literally standing on the brakes at the time. I determined that the seal "probably" was knicked passing by the parking brake slot when it was assembled. The seal clearly failed in a ~1/4" wide notch in the lip exactly lingin up with the slot. In normal use, the seal doesn't ride anywhere near the slot. I suspect that the problem was one of assembly rather than of design. The immediate "fix" was to put the old piston with replacement seals into the nicely finished repro housing.
Chuck Schaefer

Resleeving including shipping in two directions costs more than a new cylinder, and there is an extra place to spring leaks at the joint between the sleeve and the old cylinder wall.

dominic clancy

All I'm saying is if you guys are buying for price only give the rest of us the curiosity of letting us know when your out.
gary starr

I dare say that wheel (and perhaps master?) cylinders are much cheaper in the northern hemisphere (and owners' climatic/storage conditions may well differ) but here ("down under") I have had mine (in several cars) resleeved in stainless steel. It is probably not cheap but I have found the bores to be everlasting. I have also been changing the fluid (I understand that conventional vegetable brake fluid absorbs moisture) every four years or so. I tried to overcome the changing-brake-fluid exercise by using silicone brake fluid but after some serious problems went back to conventional fluid. Perhaps newer types of seals (eg shiny black?) overcomes this, but I am not taking the chance!
Barry Bahnisch

At the risk of hijacking Thomas' thread, I dug out the box-o-parts containing my wheel cylinders tonight and took some pictures. The front cylinders are "Moprod" and are marked made in Australia or some such. My dad purchased them probably 25 years ago or so, and they've sat in the box since. The rears that were purchased with them got installed on another project, and I bought replacements maybe 15-20 years ago. Just wondering if anybody here will recognize them and have any horror stories, etc. I'd like to run DOT 5 fluid in my hydraulic system.




Del Rawlins

And this is what I have for rear cylinders.




Del Rawlins

If it were me and my car I would have no hesitation fitting those and using DOT 5. Those are probably the best available. Just check that the bores are still perfect, any signs of corrosion there and I would be very careful.
N McGurk

Moprod: http://www.trademarkia.com/moprod-73545987.html
Trademark First used 1979, cancelled end 2007
From somebody's Linked In
MoProd-Supra

1989 – 1990 (1 year)

A division of the Evans Halshaw car dealer group, which then sold Moprod-Supra to the Quinton Hazell Group.

I remember them, good goods.

Came across this while looking - gearhead heaven! Wonder what they do with the stuff?
http://www.obstock.co.uk/

FRM
FR Millmore

Bringing this thread back from the dead for further questioning...

Moss is currently running their brake and clutch sale, and I see that they list a "Lockheed" clutch slave cylinder that is marked down a little bit from normal. I have previously overhauled my clutch slave and master cylinders (sitting in boxes), but I have been leaning more towards using new components instead of the ones I rebuilt. I honed out all of the pits, but it took quite a bit of honing to get to that point.

At this time, what are the BEST versions of these two units, price being irrelevant?
Del Rawlins

I have used Brown & Gammons for most of my Parts - They are very reliable and knowledgable re MGAs- Ron Gammons has rebuilt a number of MGas to Rally spec and their parts are usualy first class and they always ready to help with advice
Rear Wheel cylinders £24.90
I have also bought their water pump (County cast iron) for £31,Fuel sender unit £49 rear shocks £31 all are giving good service.
I am fortunate only live 20 miles from Baldock so they are very convenient Their on line catalogue is very usefull and they will ship anywhere
I have no connection with them apart from being a satisfied customer
Paul
P D Camp

Del, I believe it is the "Lockheed" (AP) that is the better of the two. The other being TRW, which is usually cheaper.
N McGurk

I'm kind of a belt and suspenders kind of guy when it comes to brakes ....so I broke down and spent the big bucks for the Lockheeds ....i was really amazed at how much crud was in the old ones.
Thomas Koch

I've used the Classic Gold cylinders with good results.
Steve Simmons

While "Classic Gold" is a catchy brand name, it does not necessarily guaranty high quality. What it means is, manufactured exclusively for Moss Motors. That may only mean that they found a cheaper source (sometimes made in China). It would be nice if they were exercising better quality control on these parts, but so far I remain skeptical. A few years ago I had a Classic Gold rear wheel cylinder that had incorrect thread in the port, and I couldn't find anything at all that would mate with it, not unified or metric. Also a couple years ago the Classic Gold master cylinders were taken off the market for a while for some unspecified reason, and I hope that problem has been resolved.
Barney Gaylord

Classic Gold isn't a brand name per say, at least not in my view. It's the name Moss uses for many of their non-OEM reproduction parts. Like many auto parts companies, parts are sourced from various manufacturers based on quality and price. Moss is no different, except that they are dealing in very limited quantities which makes it a lot harder to guarantee a quality part from the manufacturing plant. Money talks, and an order for 1000 brake cylinders is hardly worth the manufacturer's time in some cases. We're lucky to have more than one choice on the market at all, let alone a pretty good track record. Just my view of course.
Steve S

This thread was discussed between 26/04/2012 and 24/07/2012

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