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MG MGA - Old Indian Trick

Has anyone had any experience with the Old Indian trick of placing a lit light bulb in the engine compartment over night to aid in starting in REALLY cold weather? I tried it with a temperature of 29F. She started with four pulls rather than 20 without the light.
Barry
Baz

Baz,... Way back, when I was a small child, my Dad had a very worn out old Chevrolet, (1958 I think). When it turned off very cold, that car wouldn't start for anything. It was his only car, and he HAD to have it to get to work each morning. Initally, he would set his alarm clock to get up and start it every 2 to 3 hours to keep it slightly warmed up.

He finally found out that he could place a heavy blanket over the engine and put a trouble light under the oil pan, and the car would start on it's own after sitting all night.

Needless to say, he traded the car off as soon as he could. Of course, this was all back in the "Good Ol' Days" when money was extremely tight and my Dad made very little money. I'm glad the "Good Ol' Days" are gone myself. :)
Danny T

Baz - The really old indians used hot coals under the hood ;) Dave
David DuBois

Danny, I believe there are many 'A's out there that don't like starting in real cold weather. This procedure seems to be the answer, anyway for me. Every thing on the engine is up to spec and as new.
Baz
Baz

Dave, we have oil heat.
Baz

The northern tribe of "A"s have block heaters...
Al McMillan

Back in 'The Good 'Ol Days' nothing would start!
Why is that?
Well 'cause even 10W oil was thick.
Starters dragged!
Ignition systems were very marginal.
Batteries, lose 50% of their power at 0 degrees F.
We used to install 'Tank heaters'
Into the heater hose, and leave them on all night.
So we'd use many ways to keep them going. 10W30 oil helped alot, and 5/20 was even better. Tank or block heaters, and fresh batteries, usually the biggest you could fit, or a second battery.
Oh yeah, I can't forget about starting fluid. Ya know the stuff you spray into the carburetor, only to have it backfire and sing all the hair off your hands and face.
LOL
Or garage the car with all of the above.
But then it's common for us to have down to 40 F below even midstate, and down to 60F below 'up nort'
We have pushed started many cars. And when I worked in the service station business in the 60's, we would go out and 'jump cars' with the battery boosters. A generator run with a small gas engine on the back of the wrecker.
Many cold days would be spent doing this all day long!
Or bringing the really bad ones inside the shop, heating the oil pan with a torch, replacing batteries, and tuneups. Pulling the spark plugs out, and hitting the spark plug hole with the torch until it went 'Whoosh' which would burn the extra gas out of the cylinder.
What fun!

Safety Fast
Dwight

Dwight

Good Grief, Dwight, you describe quite an adventure.
Baz
Baz

Al, a block heater, I've heard of them. Wonder if I can find onw around here (NJ)?
Baz
Baz

If the A has to sit outside, a block heater is good. If inside a garage or shed, then a dipstick heater usually has worked fine for my cars.

The dipstick heater is not a bad choice as you don't have to explain to club members that you have not changed your electrical system to 110 AC. You can remove it and not have a plug hanging out somewhere.
Bob Muenchausen

Thanks Bob, I will see if maybe J.C.Whitney has a dipstick heater. What kind do you have that fits?
Baz
Baz

Drop into any local auto parts store and ask for a 1-5/8 inch core plug heater. See here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/cooling/cool_210.htm
Barney Gaylord

If the car is anywhere close to right, it should start first try down to at least 0F, without aids. Every (British) one I've had, driven or serviced since 1964 has, except my XK120 which would start instantly at 5deg, and not at all below that - car was smarter than me! My Austin America refused at -30F though.
FRM
FR Millmore

First pull at zero degrees, very impressive there FR.
Baz

My first MGA used to start reliably down to 0dF, but not as -2dF. It would crank hard and slow, so I guess it didn't like straight 30W oil when cold. A good modern battery and multi-weight oil will help a lot.

20W50 oil is bad for sub freezing teperatures, as it will give low oil pressure until it warms up some. 10W40 oil works okay for me down to at least -10dF.
Barney Gaylord

I had the fortune to live in northern Quebec for 4 plus years.39-40 below was common in Dec-March. I had a MK IX '1959 Jaguar which was outside all the time. I made an inline water hearter from a 1000 Watt tankl element. Installed it between one heater hose and the lower radiator hose. With a timer it would come on at 0430 AM and when I left for work at o700 it was indicating warm on the heat gauge. I , however did have one problem. If it snowed during the night it would melt the snow and sometime cover the headlights with ice. The Jag never failed me with that heater. At work we had assigned parking spots and that included a 120 volt outlet.
I also used a block heater on my Morris minor back in 1950.
They do work well.
Sandy Sanders
Sandy Sanders

I've had MGAs, MGBs and MGCs and lived in Missouri for many years. Not as cold as some climates, but drove them daily in temperatures down to -10. First, good tuning is essential. It's been my experience that they won't crank fast when it's really cold, so the engine has to "catch" and start quickly. With manual chokes, you'll flood them if the ignition fire isn't set accurately and sufficient.

Another note to owners of MGAs and MGBs until the mid 70s, there was good reason for those two 6 volt batteries instead of a single 12 volt, two 6s had more cranking amps. I'm sure there are good 12 volt batteries out there, but just changing to a single 12 for the convenience and reduced costs without considering the cranking amps needed to spin the engine sufficiently will result in lots of mornings when it won't start.
Rick Penland

Rick - nice to hear there is another old fart like me that recalls that there was a good reason for twin 6 volt batteries.....

Sandy - love the Mk 9 Jag - owned one for years. They had an electric solenoid enrichening device that alloweed them to start much more easily in colt temps whether or not you arranged to warm the car. Always wondered why you couldn't adapt that to an MG.
Bill Spohn

It's hard to comprehend the discomfort level that really cold weather causes you people in the northern hemisphere. As I write, and where I live, it is still early morning, (6:10am Thursday 29/12/2005) it is some 30degrees Celsius and is forecast to be close to 40C today. Because of the heatwave, the power supply authority can't cope, with all the air conditioners running, so we get power shutdowns for at least 4 hours. I am not sure which extreme I would prefer. Besides, it is far too hot to drive around in my MGA, even with the hood up! It must be nice weather somewhere?
maurie prior

Rick

I would be interested in the actual CCA rating for your 6 v batteries. I just checked the Interstate battery web site and found only 2 sizes of 6 volt listed. They have a CCA rating of 450 and 550 respectively. The 12 v Type 26 that I have in my A comes in 2 versions with CCA ratings of 530 and 655. I don't think the difference between 530 and 550 CCA is going to be significant. And in any case both are MUCH higher that the batteries available when these cars were new.

FWIW

Larry
Larry Hallanger

The primary advantage of twin 6's is storage capacity. If you leave your headlights on with engine off, or if your generator craps out while driving, the twin batteris will last longer before dead. Modern 12V batteries have more gobs of cold cranking amps than twin 6's, so that's not an issue either way.
Barney Gaylord

Larry, check the physical size of the two Interstate batteries, the higher CCA overhangs the back of the battery trays on my A! Interstate batteries are the best that I have ever used, lasting now 5 years and still in great shape!

BTW, I have not seen anyone mention cleaning or replacing the ground (+) to chassis cable and where it bolts to the chassis. It made a big difference to cranking speed on my old A as it had never been done before.

Russ
R.A. Carnes

2 12 volt batteries in parallel installed like in a truck will out crank and out store 2 6 volt in series any time and still cost less. There really is no advantage for 2 sixes. Back when 6 volt was the norm they were cheaper than the fancy new 12s. 50+ years later you can buy 2 12s for the price of one six.
Back in the early 70's I worked in a Service station. The road service vehicle was wired so that with 2 12 volt batteries you could choose between 12 and 24 volts at the jumper cables. Those old cars without computers could take the 24 volts and just crank like crazy. We even had an old willys truck as a snow plow it had a 6 volt systen, wouldn't start without a jump if it were cold enough to snow. Started great with 12 volts. When the American guys Convert an old 6 volt car to 12 they still use the 6 volt starter to crank faster.
R J Brown

Back in the days of six volts and -40 temperatures in northern Wisconsin, we used an in-line water heater that you plugged in to 110 volt line. It worked like a coffee percolator and would circulate the water behind the thermostat to keep the block warm. It is still common in this region to see cords hanging out just above the front bumper on cars. In really cold weather, I used to have one person pull on the MGA starter while I turned the crank.
Harley

What a load of nonsense. It's a well known face that the A and B series engines will start almost immediately if in good gondition and properly tuned down to temperatures of -20degrees and beyond. It has to be fairly well tuned and the choke mechanism has to operate properly. These cars will start promptly even when covered with snow and frost. Full choke is mandatory and starting will be within about 4 - 6 revolutions of the engine.
Iain MacKintosh

In the early 70's I had a 69 midget that I drove year round, it never failed to start including times when the temp was -24 F and it stood outside all night. One big advantage was a small engine with a very large battery under the bonnet with it. It goes without saying that to start in this type of weather the car must be well tuned, the battery excellent condition as well as the starter. One thing working against the A's & B's is the length of the battery cables. At very cold temps there can be significant voltage drop thru the cables as the starter will draw more current combined with maybe only 25% of battery capacity available.
If you want to improve your chances in very cold weather, increase the size of your battery cables and use 5W20 oil. There is nothing wrong with using a block heater as it does reduce stress on the whole starting system. One could also install one of the new gear reduction high torque starters.
John H

Winter starting seems to depend on humidity and the magnetic lines of flux and their density at the geographic point on the earth's surface you find yourself. Idaho is in a swirling vortex of gravity and magnetic fields causing havoc with humans in more ways than just being cold, but generally enhancing the operation of most mechanical devices, even at normally lower than average temperatures. Something like cow magnets on your fuel line. ;-)

Both the MGA I had and the GT I still drive would/do start (the A after some coaxing with with a dipstick heater, the GT right after the first swing of the starter) down to -25F here in this part of the world. It took them both quite a while to warm up, but once there, they ran/run ok. Incoming air temps/density sorta made a mess of carb adjustments and offered some suggestion of carb icing in the A at those temps. The A seemed to be a car which liked sunny days between 50F and 80F best and temp extremes above or below this range got progressively more protest from the various operating systems.
Bob Muenchausen

Right on Bob, I see you've been around the block a few times. Of course there are those on this board who will tell you that you do not know how to tune your A properly - ya sure.
Barry
Baz

I remember using a battery warmer on my 59 Chev. You wrapped it around the battery and plugged it in. Kept it nice and warm. Cranked on just like a hot summer day. That along with a block heater would solve all your problems. We have places in nothern Ontario that are so cold in the winter a lot of public parking lots have 110v hookups for block heaters.
Kris
Kris Sorensen

This thread was discussed between 26/12/2005 and 13/01/2006

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