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MG MGA - Re-motoring a MGA
Hello, I have a new project for next spring, restoring a MGA-Coupé. I bought that car few years ago as a never complete project. I have almost all components but engine an gearbox need an overhaul. The dilemma I am facing is to keep it original or swap a new powertrain. I intend to drive that car for travelling and want it fast an reliable. As I knew with my MGB the engine exhibits annoying noise with a gearbox without OD. and a swap to a 5 sp is interesting. As the A engine is only a 1600. it could also be attractive to have a larger one, for example a 2,3L engine+ 5 sp. G-box from a Mustang or a Volvo 240. I must also decide if it is a basic swap with a classical carburetter type set-up or a more powerful ans sophisticated EFI. Personnally I do not want to have a car to get restoration prizes, but something fun to drive. I need help to find owners that have made such modifications. Thanks _________________ J.G.C. MGA-Coupé MGB-GT TRIUMPH TR6 3x Jag. |
Jean Guy Catford |
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=tlist&subject=36 may be a good place to start |
dominic clancy |
Jean: Opinions on this topic will vary. My answer to your questions depends in large part on whether you have a numbers matching car. Is the current engine the original engine? If so, I would rebuild the matching engine with suitable overbore, porting and cam profile. That would greatly preserve the car's value while also improving performance. If the current engine is numbers matching, but you prefer to replace it, do so with an engine that will not require significant modification of the chassis/body. An early 1800 MGB engine would add performance and is more or less a drop in replacement. If you go this route SAVE THE OLD ENGINE, because a future owner may want to restore your coupe to numbers matching status. If the current engine is NOT numbers matching, then I would feel less restricted about modifying the chassis/body to install a bigger engine. Good luck, M.D. '57 coupe |
M. D. |
I tend to agree with M.D.. I would add a 3.9 rear diff ratio to bring down the rpm at speed. For a little more snort you could build a higher performance early 1800 engine. I would stick with the carbs, its hard to fix those micro-chips on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. |
John H |
Jean Guy, if you do swap for another motor and want to sell the 1600, I may be interested. |
Art |
Hi, Interestings ideas guys, thanks. It is the original engine. A rebuilt engine is solving only partially my problems. I have a 3.9 rear axle avaliable, but as I noticed in my B-GT and my TR6, it is horribly noisy and disturbing at 70-80 MPH. Finding a good OD gearbox is not easy and a swap with the Supra box will cost as much as my proposed combine(engine-trans.) swap. My goal if I take the swap route, is to do nothing irreversible as the day I will sell the car, this is schedule in 200 years from now, the next owner could restore the car original. Cheers, JGC |
Jean Guy Catford |
If you want up to date performance, buy a modern car. |
Dave |
No dave, I want a fast reliable car as a daily driver with the class of a classical British sportscar. These characteristics are not available in any modern car. It is the same reasoning you exhibit as saying: "I will never buy radial tires for my MGA an continue to endure misbehaviour of bias tires as there were not standard in that era". JGC |
Jean Guy Catford |
Hi Jean (Hygene!) bad joke ! I see that F1 cars will be using V8's next year, there will probably be a few V10's kicking around, they make a nice noise, 900 bhp aswell. Try Mclaren or Renault, they must have a website. Seriously, stick with a 'B' series and appropiate gearing Terry |
Terry Drinkwater |
Jean Guy, Just for your information I have an 1957 Ash Green Mga Coupe ready to hit the road next spring after a 33 year resto. I know of the following MGA COUPES in the area. Jean Marc Des Hayes Repentgny Phil Chartrand Beaconsfield Name unknown Sherbrooke White coupe from Sorel Do you know of others. My personal coice would be leave your car stock but I have seen articles regarding a Miata engine in an MGA. But it's your car ....your call. |
Gordon |
An MGA isn't a freeway car. There were no freeways when it was designed. My legs start to cramp up if I drive mine more than a half hour without shifting. Of course, if you're under about 5' 10" that may not be a problem. If your car has the original engine and transmission, I'd consider selling it and buying another one to make a kit car out of. Mine has an MGB engine in it, but that was installed by a PO and the original engine is lost. Although I like the ability to take hills in 4th, I'd put the original engine back if I had it. |
David Breneman |
Do what I did with my Coupe - stick a stock MGB 3 main in (dead easy) and leave it alone otherwise. If the gear ratio bothers you, look for a 4.1 or 3.9 instead, but the 4.3 isn't all that bad. I've run all day at 4500 - 5000 RPM and the engine doesn't care. |
Bill Spohn |
2.8 -3.4 litre GM 60 degree V6.(GM=MG spelled backwards, so its not like a big change eh?) Pull it out of a Camaro with the 5 speed. There is a kit to put these in MGBs and there is not THAT much difference between the A and B. This will give you power, reliability and the long legs for highway driving. If you keep the Fuel injection, it will also provide instant starts with no warm-up in the driveway while you fiddle with the choke and wait for it to idle. (I know this is all part of the charm, but not in a daily driver)Costwise, it will be about the same as re-building an engine and sourcing a recon overdrive box. Pete |
Pete |
Pete, you can NOT do this to an MGA in an easily reversible way, so you would be permanently chopping up a nice car. I also disagree that you can do it for the price of redoing an original engine. And finally I disagree that there isn't that much difference between the MGB and MGA, so the kits to put these engines in the B will be of ANY use. The transmission mount is different. The engine mounts used in the kits will not bolt into the MGA. The headers won't fit as the MGA has a frame in the way. So basically what we are left with that WILL work, is zip, nada, SFA. I know this because I am half way through doing exactly this swap onto an MGA frame, though it isn't an MGA per se any more as the body has been 'changed'. I'd leave this sort of butchery for rubber snouted MGBs - it would do the world in general a FAVOUR to remove one of those from the road for a prolonged period, and if it was never completed, who would care? |
Bill Spohn |
Gordon, There is another Coupé in Quéebc city area. A very well done restoration but some kind of pale green, I really dislike. An early 1800 and a 3,9 ratio are not a bad ideas. As today freeways are part of our lives, A swap to a 5sp. is a tiny compromise to do. JGC |
Jean Guy Catford |
Hi Folks. As an MGA enthusiast and "sorta purist" I generally dont like the idea of greatly modifying the basic MGA. (My 1500 roadster had a chev 350 engine and Chev 4 speed installed when I purchased it! I converted the car back to stock) On the other hand, there have been many times when I wished my MGA had more power, or more gears! (damn rice racers) High speed cruising is noisy and somewhat nerve wracking with a stock drive train. (I know, because I drove my MGA from Ontario Canada, to Nova Scotia, and back!) If I was going to do a drive train swap (which I considered and ultimately rejected) I would consider the following choices: Fiat 124 4 cylinder DOHC engine and 5 speed manual tranny ( smooth,and twin cam appeal), Volvo 140 series 4 cylinder engine and 4 speed manual tranny (bullet proof tough), Mazda Miata 4 cylinder DOHC engine and 5 speed manual tranny (smooth, and twin cam appeal). I suspect the Fiat and Volvo Drive train components would present the least swap difficulties, but the Mazda conversion would be an awesome setup! A V6 engine would likely also fit the MGA engine bay without cutting the heater shelf or other major sheet metal out, although I have no idea which engine/tranny combo would be ideal. Just rambling again, beats enduring my poems I guess. lol Glenn |
Glenn |
A V6 will fit, barely. Check out Harrison Mandell's car on this page: http://www.lbcnuts.com/mg/modsengine/ |
Steve Simmons |
Too much "Jesse James" TV shows influence some peoples dreaming of a muscle car under a little British sports car body not realy made to accept easyly all "steroids" they want to put on them . These car are so hard to keep like they are suppose to stay "originals" at my opinion. But this is only my point of view . |
Jules |
I see where the MGA with the V6 has the 90 degree version of the engine. This means that the 60 degree will be a lot easier to fit. That said, there is no such thing as an easy engine swap unless you are following in the steps of another person. Bill should be able to point out some of the obstacles and how to overcome themin a 60 degree V6 conversion. I must say, having played with these cars for over 30 years, it is interesting how the owners go from "purchashers of transportation" to "cheap thrills buyers" to "restore and modify" until we end up with the "curators". It has happened to the Jags, Loti, Big Healeys, now the MGA crowd, and yes, even the lowly MGB marque is showing signs of becoming museum items. Pete |
Pete |
Hi Pete. When I first got my MGA in 1980, I just wanted a fun set of summer wheels. Now, as these cars in fact become "museum pieces" or "historical vehicles", I have been turning my attention to preservation of my classic. My son loves our MGA, and will inherit it from me, when I am too old to work on it anymore. To that end, I have been "stockpiling" commonly needed parts and repair information so the next generation will have some hope of keeping the beast running, and on the road. Most "modern" mechanics today dont have the knowledge to work on our MG's and most cannot/will not even attempt to repair an MGA! Because MGA's are classic cars, and ARE so "pure of form and function" and are honestly true "motoring vehicles", I am becoming much more mindful of (and perhaps increasingly opposed to) severe modifications to the basic MGA configuration. While I do understand (and sometimes myself yearn for) updated performance, heavily modifying these cars in my humble opinion, fundamentally changes them from what they were, (and what they were meant to be), into something else. This "something else" may meet contemporary owner desires, but may leave the next generation of owners in a real muddle. A different drive train will (among other things) remove the ability to hand crank the engine, remove the need to learn to double clutch, manage a cantankerous non synchro first transmission, and will change the sound and feel of how the car runs, drives, and perhaps handles. This (to me) is essentially changing the "soul" of the vehicle! One can only hope that people who heavily modify any MGA, engineer the changes, and retain the old parts, so the car can be restored back to stock configuration, for future generations to enjoy, as an original and "totally pure" sports car! I know that many folks disagree with keeping these cars largely unmodified. I DO respect each owner's right to modify and use his or her car as he or she sees fit. The views expressed in this thread are my personal views, right or wrong, and dont HAVE TO mesh with other reader's viewpoints. These are just my humble opinions. Cheers! GLenn |
Glenn |
Well Glenn, It is by diversity of opinions that we progress. I personnaly am not a fan of muscle cars and the idea of a swap is a matter of doing something decent. Purity of the make is a strange matter as for examples MG itself put v8 in some models, or as far I remember a Sunbeam Tiger was not a kit car, or TVR with different engine set-up like TR6 or Ford. And I did not speak of a certain Shelby that placed somme V8 in an all british genuine AC. Brittons themselves have made strange choices and borrowed engine from other models or brands. Is a MGA or MGB engine is something unique to that make. Basic point is a car with a swap is of less value, but, in few years, what will be the original aspect of our cars with 'genuine' repro parts coming from China or India. There was a guy I knew with 2 MG TD and he was proud of both, one with original specs and the second to travel with a Volvo B18 engine-trans. set-up. Many people in the crowd did not see any difference between these two cars. Cheers, JGC |
Jean Guy Catford |
Jean I am a fan of the B-series option for your car. I am not a concours fanatic. Equally, when I raise the bonnet (hood) I want something that says 'original' MGA to the casual eye. The modifications I have made to my car have been more of an attempt to make the car acceptably drivable in today's traffic rather than to make an exotic statement of "look what I have got under my hood". My power system is a 5-bearing B-series, Sierra Type 9 5-speed box, standard diff and beefed up front brakes (discs instead of drums) to cope with wandering pedestrians etc. Let us know what you settle for. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
Jean, here is a fine example of an MGA modified for improved performance which is completely 'bolt in' and enables the car to be returned to original if desired. The performance stats sound just like what you are looking for in your car. http://www.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgoc&p=emg/mgaspo.htm |
Bill Young |
Do a search in the archive under Pinto - there is a ford engine that is a direct bolt-in, with tremendous power improvements. |
dominic |
Bill, I wonder how long that engine lasted before the block cracked. 2200cc in a B block?!?!? |
Steve Simmons |
Don't know Steve, but keep it closer to 1800 with a mild overbore and the other mods still would make a great driver for U.S. highways. Most of the time we don't need the high top speed, just enough torque to pull nicely at 70 to 75 mph. |
Bill Young |
Here's the Pinto stuff mark mathiesen australia markmathiesen@hotmail.com Posted 05 November 2001 at 00:21:10 UK time Dan, my 'A' has had a Pinto 2 litre for 20+ years now and it went straight in. Runs a 5 speed sierra (box is made for engine) and a stock MGB rear end (and its just as cheap/easy to service as the 1600 'A' engine). Performance? Well when the 2nd hand engine went in 20 years ago it could out accelerate an Aussie 302 Ford coupe (no-pollution geared engine) up to 60mph with ease! In fact if you dropped the clutch it would do about 25% of a doughnut burnout!). I am now replacing the Pinto with a 4.4 litre (bored to 5 litre) Leyland P76 aluminium engine and a 5 speed supra box! regards mark |
dominic clancy |
Jean I have a 58 with a 1500 and a 3.9 rear end. It handles San Diego freeway traffic at 70 mph (3750 rpm)with no problems. I will say that I would recommend a 5 speed or OD if you are planning long trips. And an 1800 would be nice and still "original MG", just not A. Dave I disagree that the A is not a reasonable freeway car. I am 6' 1" and regularly commute ~ 30 min each way in the A. If I was going to drive looooooong distances I would seriously do something about the seats as they are the limiting factor for me. Of course I find that I now need a stretch after a couple of hours in any car (didn't used to be that way). FWIW Larry 58A |
Larry Hallanger |
One word...."Miata". I have a 1600 Coupe' and the thought of hacking it up to suit my needs, and thereby forever removing it from the total production number seems a bit backwards to me. It's like moving to the county and then bitching about all the cows. My primary car is a '91 Miata SE, the BRG over tan model. It starts right up, never leaves me stranded, is cozy in the winter, given it has the hard top option and has the feel, sound and ride of a true sports car. You could pick an older one up for nearly what you're going to pay for the conversion. The coupe's had such low production number to begin with. Have you thought about a supercharger! The MGA is what it is. If you want more power and reliability....buy a Miata. |
robert maupin |
FWIW, my MGA has a 3-main 1800 in it, installed by the previous owner. with a 3.9 rear end and the stock MGA 4-speed transmission it has PLENTY of power. I climb steep grades at 75MPH with more power on tap should I need it. 100MPH would be very, very easy. And the best thing... you can't tell it from stock unless you really know what to look for. |
Steve Simmons |
Jean, I am a firm believer in doing what you want to the car after all it is yours, and what ever man has made can be made again. No matter what the modifications are it can always be turned back to a standard MGA as all the parts are available or can be made. My coupe has a MGB 5 bearing motor with a Ford 5 speed gearbox and a Moss supercharger. Together with a 3.9 dif I would put the performance on par with my Toyota MR2, but no way does it have the brakes or the handling of the Toyota. It is a totally diferent driving experience and in a way more fun. I also feel my MGA could do with more power (the chassis could handle it) and better brakes. Can I suggest if you want to change the engine consider fitting a Honda S2000 motor and gearbox in your coupe, with double wishbone front suspension on it, fully independent rear suspension with a limited slip differential and uprated front brakes. There is at least one MGA roadster running around with this combination in the UK as you will see if you get the Ultimate MG DVD. After comparing various MGs ranging from a dead standard MGB through a Honda Civic Type R powered MGF, K series engined Midgit etc. over the same course the Honda S2000 engined MGA is rated the best. Rod |
R J Myers |
The "purist" vs "hot rod" argument is one that will never be over and one for which there is no correct answer. As RJ said, it's your car and you should do with it as you see fit. The fact that my roadster is almost 50 years old, is underpowered (by today's standards), has a few quirks, and needs more than occaisonal tinkering all add to it's charm. But then, it's not my everyday car either. Each to his own, I say. For me, I'll try to keep my car close to original, but not a concours trailer queen. I get too much enjoyment from driving it! |
Andy Bounsall |
Robert: I agree with you. Buy a Miata for a driver. I did for cost of a running late model MGB. I preserved my MGA 1500 as original. You may want to bore out your block some and have the head ported for some extra kick. MGA's are not freeway cruisers, but road cars. Would you put Japanese four banger engine and 5 speed transmission in an MG TD today? Another point worth noting is that some auction or magazine price charts show the MGA 1500 in good running condition at a higher price than a similar 1600! With time the original marque becomes more sought after. Tally Ho, Reed 58 MGA 59 MGA Project |
Reed Hayes |
Well, The basic problem is I do not like Jap. cars and driving a MGA is what I have in mind. I think the most intersting idea I retain is to fit a 1800 3 main bearings with a 5 sp gearbox conversion and a 3,9 rear axle. This is nothing irreversible and with an uprated suspension and tires, it could give a car reliable and fun to drive. Thanks all, JGC |
Jean Guy Catford |
Jean, I think you are on the right track, but store that original engine properly for the next owner! Regards, M.D. '57 coupe |
M. D. |
Reed, I opted for a period accessory,a Derrington HRG Crossflow Head. I had to look for a fairly long time to find one, and paid a fair amount for it, but it gives a 15% increase in power while lowering the operating temperature at the same time. Plus, I'm sure folks will do a double take when they notice the carbs running off the other side of the engine. Figuring out how the keep the heater (running the hot water lines) and creating/manufaturing an accelerator support bracket looks to be the most difficult aspect of this conversion. It will be a while before I can try it out as the body needs considerable rocker/rust repair, paint and the other finishing aspects of a restoration. But, I'm excited at the prospect! |
robert maupin |
I fitted a Sierra type 9 gearbox to my 'A' roadster a couple of years ago and it transformed it. On long drives on European Autobahns, it will happily keep pace with modern traffic without stressing the motor. With a 4.3:1 diff, acceleration is still quite sharp and consumtion remains around 28 mpg (Imperial gallons) The conversion is supplied by the excellent Hi Gear Engineering. http://www.hi-gearengineering.co.uk/frames.htm The kit, which includes a new Bell housing and prop shaft, was extremely well engineered, easy to fit and uses the original gear lever position, so there is no evidence on the inside of the car. There is also no need to cut the frame or body. The original factory fitted CR box remains under the bench awaiting a long deserved re-build. |
Geoff McGladdery |
I completed my 58 coupe restoration a few years back. installed a fresh 1800 with HIF's - full synchro box - MGB 3.9 complete rear end - complete MGB front end with disk brakes - runs fine at all speeds - the only thing I would add, overdrive. |
SJ MacKAY |
How about a MGB engine with a Nissian 5 speen trans. Then Supercharge it. Preformance, and with a MG soul. |
D.M. Black |
If there is no objection to keeping the MG motor, why bother using a Japanese transmission? The 4 speed OD box that came with the cars is perfectly servicable. The only way I can understand the apparent eagerness of so many people to abandon perfectly good 5 (really 6) speed original boxes is that there must be a shortage of parts in other areas that we don't see here for some reason. Either that or people just like to change things. |
Bill Spohn |
The overdrive geraboxes are relatively scarce (but not impossible to find). Biggest problem is they don't fit in the MGA without "modifying" (gentle word) the tunnel and frame. For about the same installed price you can get a complete 5-speed kit that bolts right in without hacking it up. That said, I don't personally have any use for a 5-speed or overdrive. With a fast street cam and 3.91 final drive the MGA with stock gearbox runs over 100 mph and cruises comfortably at 85 all day long (even if a little loud). For any budget concious person, neither overdrive nor 5-speed can be economically justified. It's just an expensive luxury item, and I can do without the extra weight. |
Barney Gaylord |
Has anyone tried to mate an overdrive unit of any type to a stock MGA transmission? From what I understand, the MGA and early MGB transmissions aren't all that different. |
Steve Simmons |
You can bolt an early MGB OD trans into an MGA without cutting the frame mount and without doing any permanent damage to the car. Simple mount adaptor and a driveshaft spacer and away you go. |
Bill Spohn |
You mean an entire MGB transmission, or adapt the OD unit to the A transmission. I'd love to do the latter since I have a D-Type OD unit laying here. |
Steve Simmons |
This thread was discussed between 20/10/2005 and 09/11/2005
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