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MG MGA - rebuild on '58 MGA coupe

I have a very nice, good running '58 coupe. This summer, it developed a leak somewhere around the water pump area and I've not done anything with it. (only drive on nice days) I do not know anything about my car's mechanical history. Since some work needs to be performed, I have decided to go ahead and have a complete rebuild of the motor. My biggest concern is finding the best place to have the work done. I was considering British Auto Works in North Plains. Is anyone familiar with this shop or ever had any work done there? Or...can anyone give me a recommendation of a good shop to have major work done?

Also..I am thinking that I would maybe like to removed the 1500 motor and tranny and replace with an 1800 and a 4 speed with overdrive. I've read some things about this and it sounds fairly straight forward in some articles, while other articles make it sound like you really have to be careful.

Any tips, comments, warnings or whatever would be welcome.

Thanks,
Pat

Pat10

The ID gearbox installation requires some metal bashing to widen the tunnel a bit. The early model 3-xyncro box requires less bashing. There will be some cut and weld to adapt the MGB gearbox rear mount to the MGA frame. The OD unit will sit behind the gearbox mount. If the box will sit on top of the existing dross member, it will be impossible to remove the unit without first removing the tunnel cover. I highly recommend you do a little extra cut and weld to have a removable cross member to make future service easier.
Barney Gaylord

I have the setup in my coupe that you are considering - see link below. If you just want a fifth gear I would recommend the Ford 5 speed conversion - a lot simpler installation. If you want to preserve the overdrive mystique then go for it! Let me know if I can be of further assistance.
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/gearbox/gt306.htm
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I'm pretty much ignorant when it comes to what will work with what. At the very least, I want to rebuild the 1500 and my current transmission. But, since they're coming out, I thought an upgrade to an 1800 and maybe getting an extra gear on the transmission would be a great thing to do. I always seem to want to be shifting to that next gear when I'm travelling down the highway.

Could you tell me what my best option would be? And by best, I mean the motor and transmission upgrade that would be the easiest conversion? Seems like when I ask a auto shop, it's all easy. But I'm sure they just want to get the work.

Thanks!

Pat10

Pat,

I have taken my Triumph to British Auto Works a couple of times and have not been impressed with the thoroughness of their work. I've had work done by Brians British in Newberg and by Keith at Foreign Parts Positively outside of Vancouver Washington. I've been quite satisfied with both, but I haven't had anything as major as a complete overhaul. Brian helped me resolve some fuel system issues in my TR8 that British Auto Works seemed incapable of. Keith helped walk me through transplanting an MGB 5-main engine into my MGA. Keith has been known to be a bit slow sometimes, though. Are you a member of the Columbia Gorge MGA Club? (now the Columbia Gorge MG Club.)

Ken
k v morton

Thanks for the information, Ken. No, I am not a member. And now it will be difficult to do so as I am moving over near Redmond. I was interested in getting my car worked on before I moved, as I felt I would have better luck finding a British car specialist over here rather than in central Oregon. Maybe not, but I haven't seen much in that area when looking on the internet.

There was only one review on British Auto Works. It was a good one but one never knows exactly where the review comes from. I used to own a '64 GTO and for many years I had all my work done at a shop that specialized in muscle cars. I know they would do the work but I'm hesitant, as they're not really British car people. even though they would tell you they can do it as well as anyone) In addition to that, they are quite expensive.

Thank you for the feedback.
Pat
Pat10


It might be worth your time to go to the monthly meeting of the MG club next week and putting your questions out there. It's a pretty friendly group. I've been a member for years even though I live in Anchorage and rarely make it to club events.

http://www.columbiagorgemgaclub.org/events.htm

Ken
k v morton

I would but I'm being pretty swamped with moving tasks. Our house sale closes on 18th and I need to have everything out of here by then and I'm doing the move myself. But thanks for the suggestion.

Pat10

Pat, what is your budget for an engine and gearbox transplant - this will give others an idea of what to recommend? Sounds to me like you only want to lower cruising speed rpm?
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Pat, you might have answered your own question since you say you intend to rebuild the 1500 engine and transmission.

That suggests you don't want to alter the car (cutting, welding, panel beating) so that they can't be put back in.

I agree with Mike, it depends on budget, but the obvious solution would be (any) MGB 1800 engine with Ford type 9 5-speed gearbox and appropriate (for engine choice) installation kit. The five speed has similar ratios from one to four and then an overdrive fifth for lowered engine speed when cruising. Not cheap if you have to go out and buy everything, but a fairly straightforward installation with no modifications.

I am not a gambling man, but I bet you would never want to go back to 1500 four speed...

Neil McG

I wish I had put a 5 speed in when I swapped in the 1800. Besides its other advantages, it would have been easier than adapting the 1800 to the MGA gearbox (at a somewhat greater cost, of course.)
k v morton

Pat..Why not buy a MGB to start with ?? Rather than trying to turn a MGA into one....Stay with the original !!!!.....Cheers Rex
Rex Thompson

Pat10,
Go the Ford T-9 transmission route, you won't regret it. I have one in my coupe. That way you don't have to modify the car or frame to get the "B" trans to fit and you don't have the inherent problems most overdrive transmissions will present you with. No modifications are required to the frame or body of the car.
Suerte!
jtw

J T Watson

Because I love the classic looks of the MGA coupe and I'd like to have a bit more power.
I'll keep all the original parts for if I ever sell to a purist.

Thanks,
Pat
Pat10

Thanks to everyone for the comments. My mechanic has found a totally rebuilt 1800, which I don't have much information on as of yet other than he said it was really 'peachy'. And even though it has been rebuilt, he is still going to take it apart and check everything for correct tolerances, etc. The Ford T-9 sounds like it might be the way to go for the tranny and I will mention this to him and see what he says. I certainly do not want to have any altering done on the car to make anything fit. (can you tell me if it changes the look of the shifter?) I'd like to have the car such that someone could easily put the original equipment back in, if I were to sell and that's what they wanted. I'm really looking forward to having the 1800 and a 5 speed. I'm sure it will make my fun car even more fun.

Thanks!
Pat
Pat10

I have the original 1622 but rebuilt motor in my 1961 Mk2 Coupe a few years ago I had the ford 5 speed fitted - It transforms the car and since then I have done a number of long continental trips and keep pace easily with modern traffic The Gear lever looks virtualy identical to the original
Paul
P D Camp

You cannot see any optical difference with the HiGear 5 speed kit, the shifter is in exactly the same position

You can also buy a gear knob that has the same shape as the original A one, but has the correct shift pattern painted on it. Coventry Auto Parts Code 2071

When you order the kit, tell your supplier EXACTLY which engine backplate and clutch you are going to use. This is important to get the correct kit of release fork and bell housing to go with your gearbox.

What is not in the kit but makes life a great deal better regarding speedo performance is a right angle speedo drive from Speedograph Richfield. Steve Gyles is the Professor here. It helps also to create an inspection hatch in the tunnel to ease fitting this.

The installation transforms driving the car, the first is synchronised and the 5th dramatically reduces revs and therefore noise,, engine and driver wear on long runs. With an 1800 motor the car should just sing along.

In comparison the OD fitting is NOT easy, although there is a write up here http://clancy.ch/MGB_Overdrive.html
You have to make chassis modifications or the prop shaft is at too sharp an angle and the UJs wear out because they are operating out of spec. In contrast the five speed just slots in with four small holes in the chassis: see here
http://clancy.ch/Ford_T9.html
Dominic Clancy

No way am I the professor on this one Dominic. However, having had the 1800 and T9 box for the last 14 years I think I have encountered most issues and eventually overcome them through trial and error. Once fettled, it is a superb combination. Definitely go the right angle drive route Pat. It gives you the option of choosing a speedo drive ratio that does not need the speedo to be recalibrated. That alone can save about 2/3 of the price of the drive unit. It also saves having the cable meandering underneath the right hand seat carpets.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I'm having a difficult time deciding which way to go here. I have found out that the 1800 that I've acquired is a 5 main bearing motor.

I'm thinking that I don't want to spend as much moola as I would need to spend to get a T9 with a conversion kit. I love my wife and really don't want a divorce.

I also don't want to have the car's transmission tunnel pounded and modified in order to install an MBG transmission with O.D.

So...what would be my best option for a regular ol' 4 speed transmission with that 1800 motor?

Could the current transmission be 'freshened' up and work okay with the 1800? Or should I go with a 4 speed fully synchro MGB tranny?

Or ???

Thanks,
Pat

Pat10

Take out a mortgage to couple the 1800 to a 5 speed T9 tranny or change your ....
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I adapted my 1500 tranny and my 1800 5-main to each other. Not all that difficult with some coaching and parts sourcing from several really helpful people. The question now for me: is the MGA tranny strong enough for the MGB motor? And how good is the tranny that I rebuilt 40 years before I coupled it to the new engine? If I had it to do over, I would save my pennies for the 5 speed conversion. As far as the all-synchro MGB box, I think that I was advised it would require modifications to the frame or tunnel. Somebody else please weigh in here.

Ken
k v morton

Ken, given that the gearbox used for the first 5 or so years of the 1800 motor is internally identical to the MGA gearbox, I would say it is plenty strong enough in terms of power transmission. I would guess the main reason they changed the tailshaft housing in the B, was to make it easier to mate up with unibody construction. The 3 synchro box has some weak points, but they were equally evident in the MGA application.

And yes, major tunnel and frame modifications are required to retrofit the 4 synchro box to the MGA.
Del Rawlins

I thank everyone for their comments on this. I have decided to mortgage the house and get a new wife. I am ordering the MGA 5 speed conversion kit for a 5 main 1800 MGB motor.

I see that on the instruction sheet, there are a number of items to be aware of as the conversion is installed. (which I won't be doing) For those of you that are familiar with the MOSS application and the instructions that they provide, is there anything missing? Or, is there a tip from anyone that I should hear that might save me some trouble and heartache down the road? (besides not getting a new wife) The auto shop is a muscle car specialty shop. And even though they are very competent mechanics, I would guess there are specifics to the MG that they're maybe not aware of.

Thanks!
Pat

P.S. I know there were tips and suggestions given in prior email responses but it's hard to find just exactly where and, besides, now I know exactly what I'm going to install.
Pat10

Pat

why not fit the 1800 engine with your standard 4 speed box and put in a 3.9 diff to see how it goes?

It would give you a similar top gear to the 5 speed/standard 4.3 diff combination but 1st 2nd and 3rd gears would be a little higher than normal.
Probably ideal for long distance cruising on level roads but not quite so well suited for climbing lots of hills.

You may find it suits you just fine like that but if not, it would at least get you on the road and let you run your car whilst you save up for the 5-speed.

In other words, you can fix up your car almost as you want it without any great expense AND get to keep the same wife at the same time! :-)

Colyn

My MGA already had the 5 speed fitted when I got it but if it had been a 4 speed, I would probably have tried fitting the 3.9 diff first.
c firth

Major tip: don't get it from Moss, it's much cheaper elsewhere, and cheapest of all here, even with shipping, direct from the manufacturer- and you get what you need if you tell Peter what you are combining as engine and clutch combination:

http://hi-gearengineering.co.uk/component/option,com_contact/task,view/contact_id,1/Itemid,34/
Dominic Clancy

With the Hi-Gear kit, do you get a rebuilt gearbox or just a used one? Given some of the issues with the T-9 reported in the forums by some users, I think I would want a rebuilt unit instead of just a used one pulled from a junkyard car.

The Moss kit claims to include a rebuilt box. And if the Hi-Gear kit doesn't include a rebuilt box, a more useful comparison between the two would include the cost of that upgrade.
Del Rawlins

It appears the Hi-Gear kit doesn't include a gearbox at all.

Ken
k v morton

Correct Ken - Hi Gear do not supply a gear box - they just give recommendations for obtaining the correct one. The Sierra boxes are becoming expensive to obtain over in UK now and it is probably easier to buy an old Sierra than get the box separately - and at least you get to test the box before you remove it!. Some companies are selling refurbished ones for around £700 - mine cost £40 off Ebay!
Del - The gear box is fairly "bomb proof" so even a junk yard one will most likely be OK after an oil change and new seals.
Cam Cunningham

You CAN buy a gearbox from HiGear, he even list rebuilt unit prices on his page
Dominic Clancy

Yes, Peter does supply the gearboxes.
Gary Lock

The price list on his site doesn't seem to say whether you are getting a rebuilt unit or what.
Del Rawlins

Peter doesn't sell anything he doesn't stand by 100%. He would not sell a "cleaned up" box as "rebuilt" like some others I have heard of. You can have total confidence buying from him - after all if you buy from any of the other people selling his kits all you are doing is paying more for the privilege than by buying direct.
Dominic Clancy

Dominic, I was not meaning to imply that he would do that. It just wasn't obvious to me from the website what you are actually getting. I am sure a phone call would clear that up, but I'm not really in the market for a 5 speed, and was only curious due to some of the problems I have read about. If what Peter sells is a rebuilt unit, I'd have to assume that most of the issues are people who bought the incomplete kit, and sourced their own box from salvage.

Edit to add; I was also trying to determine if there is some reason why the Moss kit is so much more besides just mark up.
Del Rawlins

This thread was discussed between 04/02/2014 and 22/02/2014

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