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MG MGA - Safety when using trolley jacks and axle stands.

I have been doing a fair bit of work on my MGA over the winter which meant that I had to jack it up front and rear and put it up onto axle stands.

After I had jacked up the rear of the car and put in the axle stands, I then jacked up the front.
I noticed halfway through the jacking process that the trolley jack wasn't moving on its wheels as the car was raised.

So I stopped the jacking process and went to have a look at the axle stands at the rear.
When I looked at them they were both leaning forwards at about 15 degrees from the vertical! A few more degrees and the car would have fallen off the stands.

So I gently lowered the front of the car and I could see that the rear axle stands were going back to vertical as I continued.

I then realised that the problem with the jacks was that the little metal swivel wheels on them were digging into the thick pile of the carpet and this was not allowing the jack to roll on the floor as it should. So raising the car was actually pulling it forwards by around 6 inches.

No, I don't have fitted carpet in my new garage, I just have my next-door neighbours cast-off living room carpet covering most of the garage floor.

It is a bit chintzy and heavily patterned, but it is very comfortable to lie on when working on the car and the patterns disguise my MGAs oil drips.

So I now rest the trolley jacks on thin metal sheets and these allow the jacks to roll on their wheels rather than pulling the car towards the jacks.

And I feel a lot safer too.

Colyn
Colyn Firth

Colyn

.......and I trust that people without axle stands do not use piles of bricks in lieu. Wood ok, but never bricks.

Shelley understood the tilting problem with some of their heavy duty screw jacks for LandRovers. The bases are arced, allowing the jacks to tilt as they extend and raise.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I have removed the front axle from the orange Heinkel. It is now sitting on stands which are as far forward as possible on the subframe. When I opened the door and put my knee on the threshold to get to the back of the cabin the whole body pivoted on the jack stands - without and mechanicals the lever effect would have allowed me to tip the car on its nose. I stabilised with a jack under the roll cage that wraps around the door aperture.

I share the garage space with a neighbour who has two kids aged 2 and 4 so I have to be very strict about safety as they are running around. The kids don't understand the meaning of "no" from their parents, but they certainly pay attention to what I tell them ! I had to give the Heinkel owner a stern warning about supporting the car on blocks of wood on end when it was trailered to me, because he didn't see my axle stands.
Dominic Clancy

I always make sure the swivel wheels (on jacks fitted with them) are facing the correct direction before raising. Of course this doesn't help on a soft surface but on hardscape it does reduce the danger. I also make it a point to watch the rear stands when going on all fours, and I check the pad on the jack once I'm halfway up to make sure it isn't sliding. Maybe I'm paranoid, but there are certain things I don't want written in my epitaph.
Steve Simmons

It's amazing what you find when you are lying beneath your car, intent on doing one specific job.

I was looking up at the battery trays and I spotted that the battery earth connection to the chassis was slightly loose.
So I took it of to clean it and found that it was already very clean, but it was clean paint!
So I have cleaned the paint back to bare metal and tightened it fully.
I have began to wonder if my twin-12v battery conversion that I did a couple of winters ago to sort out my sluggish starter problems was maybe unnecessary.

Also, I have been working down in the foot-well and I found that quite a few of the nuts on both the pedal box assembly and the master cylinder were not much more than finger tight.

I do tend to give the brake pedal a hard time and so perhaps I should check those nuts and bolts a little more regularly.

The final thing I have sorted out was the source of an occasional intermittent ignition fault.
The ignition would occasionally flick off and on for a few seconds causing a misfire. Then all would be fine for a few months.

I have re-made quite a few of the ignition circuits connectors and replaced a few sections of cable, plus the battery cut off switch and also recently, the ignition switch. But nothing seemed to cure it.

So I was just considering renewing all of the cable in the ignition circuit, but fortunately had a quick look at the fuse holder.
A good thing I did because the blades of the fuse holders were almost black, I gave them a quick going over with some emery cloth and this seems to have done the trick.
Fingers are crossed.

Cheers
Colyn
Colyn Firth

While you are in maintenance mode Colin don't forget to check the condition of the clevis pins through your brade/clutch cyl. pushrods

I hope your jackstands aren't standing on carpet
William Revit

Carpets in a garage can hold and promote moisture, which can lead to condensation and more moisture which can promote rust.

I have a massive fresh air system in my garage, Dennis will be switched on this weekend.
Nigel Atkins

Colyn

I have seen this problem start to happen even on my concrete floor.

Amazingly I seem to be so lucky in having a dry atmosphere without any special measures, and I am within 50 metres of sea water.

Paul
Paul Dean

Paul, You're a lucky man with a dry atmosphere within 50m of the sea
How's that work
I'm on the coast and rust / corrosion is a real issue for me
The roller door on my w/shop lasts about 4-5 years before the rails and lock rust out
The windows of my house are continually covered in salt
I'm a bit jealous
willy
William Revit

Paul, William. Maybe an elevation difference. I'm 5 miles from the sea but on top of a hill. I see the mist in the valley some mornings and think how lucky I am to be drier up here. It's windier though. John
John Francis

Hi William,
I replaced the clevis pins and the fork ends a couple of years ago when I was looking at the brake pedal positions.

I was amazed how much wear there was on these and pleasantly surprised at how much better the brake pedal was once I replaced them.

Colyn


Colyn Firth

I have had the same problem with jack stands when I have jacked the car up at the rear first. Almost a calamity.

So I found out that when jacking most MG's... jack the front first, place the stands into the spring pans, then jack the rear, and put the stands under the springs tight to the spring u-bolt plate. Works great, and never had a problem since. Very tight getting the jack in to the differential lump and starts out slow raising, but works.

Jacking cars is never as easy as it looks sometimes, even though we have been doing it for years.

.... CR
C.R. Tyrell



As an Apprentice in the Trade in the early 50's I saw a couple of instances involving poor supports under raised vehicles. Especially trucks-
Luckily, no deaths.-


The in-built caster angle of the M G 's front cross-member, is a trap.
The small cup on a floor trolley jack will easily slip off from under the cross-member.
Should it happen--a radiator repair will result.
Unfortunately my poor computer proess precludes me from sending a picture of the pad that fits onto the jack's lift---it has 2 large round steel posts welded to this fitting that lock into the 2 holes under the crossmember.
I frequently safely move my M G 'round my small suburban workshop floor.
Safety Fast---Safety First! !
Nuffield.
I.W. Cowen.

Reading all this I am glad I have an hydraulic hoist. Bit of a pain getting set up but much safer when all done.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I have seriously considered installing a 2-post hydraulic lift in my garage but each time I earmark the £1000 it would cost to fit one, something else comes along with higher priority.
(This year, my daughters wedding using wedding cars tonbridge is the culprit)

I must admit that I like the idea of having the car safely raised up off the ground, I have the height to be able to raise the car to about 5 feet off the ground.
There must also be some added security in being able to store the car off the ground, not so easy to drive away from there.

Maybe next year.

Colyn

Colyn Firth

Colyn, my two-post's max lift is 4 feet which is adequate for most tasks. Jud


J. K. Chapin

When I bought my last (two) sets of axle stands on the box it showed not to use four at once, see below.

I used to use four axle stands but did once have to put a bit of effort into loosen something under the car and noticed the car move slightly above whilst I was doing so. Now I'd be a lot more reluctant to use four stands.



Nigel Atkins

The Heinkel I am working on now is on four axle stands. Either my garage floor is not flat of the car is slightly warped because it is like a table wobbling on three legs. I also have to be careful about weight distribution to prevent it pivoting at the front stands which are as far forward as the unibody construction permits.....

I have no worries about jacking up using a 3 ton professional floor jack with a large rubber saddle and big wheels. As long as it is in line with the car and can move freely, there's no danger of putting the first set of axle stands under lateral pressure. I would NEVER use a scissor or bottle jack to do this.
Dominic Clancy

I have always been nervous about using axle stands at all four corners to support the entire car. It just looks so unstable to me even though many do so, and live to tell the tale.
And often anything I have to remove from under the car invariably requires a good deal of heavy persuasion!

So I will normally jack up one end, slide car ramps under the wheels, then take the jack to the other end and lift it on to axle stands at that end only.
It seems so much more solid on the ramps. Obviously no good if you need to take the wheels off though!
Graham V

Good move Graham
If I'm up on both ends like that I usually do the same, but place 1 ramp sideways then there's strength in both directions---
There's no second chances when they fall down they don't say excuse me I'm about to fall, it's just BANG---take that
William Revit

Even using trolley jacks, I always put stands under the same end plus a couple of wheels as well - but only when I really have to - otherwise I use the two post lift ...
Chris at Octarine Services

Interesting Chris should mention wheels. When I was doing my rebuild I used piles of wheels with scrap tyres on quite extensively as part of my approach, they are very stable.

Paul
Paul Dean

I mentioned a car hoist above as an alternative. Shop carefully if going down this route.

Don't buy my style of cantilever hydraulic hoist without careful measurement and consideration. Mine can be pushed under the car from the side without issue and from that point of view it is very good. However if you are limited in width and/or storage space in the garage you could end up with my problem.

The hoist will not fit comfortably between the wheel track for general storage so I have had to build permanent storage ramps to making parking feasible.

You have been warned.

Steve

PS. Colyn. Note you are not alone with carpeting. Keeps my feet warm in the engineering side of the garage!



Steve Gyles

Without fail, any time a wheel comes off, that wheel goes under the sill of the car. There is no possible way to ever be "too safe".
Steve Simmons

Steve G
Love your storage ramps - I bet they are high enough to do the odd job, as well as giving storage area
Graham V

I have used a combination of the above.

Sometimes I use four axle stands.

Sometimes a pair of ramps at one end and axle stands at the other. I also use ratchet straps around the wheels so that they can't roll off the ramps when jacking the other end.

I've also used four ramps, facing opposite directions, when I need to get under the car, but don't need to remove the wheels.
Dave O'Neill 2

Graham

The ramps were easily made. Next time I have the car out I will photograph the inside and do some measurements if you are interested. The black tape is a guide for the tyre. I lean over the side to monitor as I drive on to ramps. They might be useful for access under the car if it was not for the hoist. It's quite heavy to drag in and out.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I use the wheel trick too, even if it also just helps to keep the wheel out of the way. Wouldn't be much good on the trojan as each wheel is about 15cm thick.
Dominic Clancy

This thread was discussed between 10/02/2020 and 29/02/2020

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