MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGA - seat belt options update?

I need to decide on a seat belt installation for my '59 coupe (its going back together, finally!). A search of the archives indicates that a 3-point lap/shoulder belt was supplied on the MkII's, so that arrangement would be period correct. CSR apparently has a good installation kit for this. There's some mention of Bob West supplying good seat belts. Also, a Kangol 3-point magnetic belt would be a good "vintage" choice if available (I'm not familiar with the Kangol belt however). Any other thoughts/comments? Has anyone tried the racing-style harness in a street driven MGA?
Thanks, George.
G Goeppner

George

Great minds think alike. I posted on the same topic totally independantly. Let's see what everyone says.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Any chance of a few photographs of the Bob West belts and mountings, Steve. I have been looking for some good secondhand or NOS belts for sometime, but they are few and far between. Found some old Kangol Magnet ones at the weekend, which have a nice solid feel to the buckle, but all the brackets were heavily rusted. These could all be rechromed and fitted with new webbing, but at what cost. Cheaper to buy off Bob West I suspect.
H BUCKELDEE

The CSR kit is welded to the frame for the lower out side attach point. It is bolted to the tunnel for the inside point. The third attach is welded to the body behind your shoulder on the roadsters. This point must be welded in prior to paint work. Clarke's kit mimics the original mount points. The upper mount is different for the coupe, it mounts to the wheel arch. See attached picture for coupe.


R J Brown

HB

Images attached. As I understand it, one attachment plate fits to the bottom rear of the tunneling; one underneath the floorboard rail close to the rear spring bracket (has to be cut to fit); and one fits to the rear inner wing (fender), with the strap going underneath the hood assembly.

Steve


Steve Gyles

Cheers Steve.
When you say "has to be cut to fit", I am not sure what has to be cut. Is it the floorboard rail, the attachment plate or spring bracket!
Henry
H BUCKELDEE

The plate has to be cut at a corner or 2 to fit under the floor rail assembly - not had a proper look yet.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Gents (and Jacqueline),
Keep tuned and I will give you my experiences, in a couple of days, with fitting seat belts to a 1600. The post office has just advised that my new belts have arrived from Bob West - MGA Specialists (and that's another story too!)- I can't collect them for a couple of days as I have to go interstate for work (roll on retirement!).
I have also fitted the original style brackets supplied by Clarke Spares - I will give you my experiences with these also - I'll need to take a couple a photos to help explain.
My general comment on the project is - "seeking originality ain't quick, easy or cheap"!
Regards
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I have a 62 1600 MK11 that came with 3 point seat belts and I am installing seat belts in my 58 coupe.
The Clarke kit matches the original mount points and belt appearance. The outer mount is welded to the frame as per original. It is $9.50 separately from CSR. To mount a belt elsewhere does not make sence to me. This picture is the MK11 as original right side. This piece can be welded in to any MGA.


R J Brown

This picture shows the original MK11 tunnel. On it sit 2 adapters for the tunnel. Your drill a 1 5/8 hole in the tunnel at the proper location then bolt the adapter to this inside of the tunnel with 6 small bolts. The picture shows the 3rd mount point adapter. The next picture shows there it mounts.


R J Brown

This is the 3rd mount point on a MK11 as original. Right side. It must be welded in prior to paint.


R J Brown

Has anyone fitted an inertia type seat belt to a Coupe. I'm presently restoring a 1960 and think that the inertia belt would be far more comfortable and positioned better on the shoulder. I saw one once and took several pictures of the car, but not specifically the belt mounting. However, if you zoom into the picture you can see the mount on the side of the door frame behind the door. BTW there's a rossette pinned to the belt. I think the owner said it came from a Volvo.

Any help,

Andy


Andy Preston

I fitted inertia reel type belts to the coupe when it was being restored as this was a requirement for compliance certification. The shoulder mounting point is only slightly out of the perfect range but is limited by the roof structure. The reels a don't take up much space and I was able to source modern units in grey webbing to match the interior. The belts had to be shortened to stop jamming on the reel when unfastened. Used the CSR lower mounting hardware but placed it as far back on the chassis as I could to clear the door aperture. Tunnel mounting did not satisfy our compliance inspectors and needed extra support. The belts work well and look as though they have always been there. I can recommend this modification as it makes the car safer and modern type belts are much more convenient. Passengers are therefore lulled into a false sense of security until we get going, only the keen ones come back for a second ride.
Cameron McIntosh

Seat belts - seeking originality is cheap, easy or quick read on!

Starting from the beginning I decided last year if I wanted to carry on with club competition events (hill climb, motorkhana, sprints, etc.) I would need to upgrade my lap seats belts as the steering wheel can get quite close to your chin if you stop suddenly. While my car (1960) isnt a concours queen, where I can I try and stick with original style bits (just a quirk of mine).

The first task was to select and install mounting brackets I went for Clarke Spares & Restorations (CSR) kit as it was highly recommended and copies the original equipment. No problem with delivery to Australia faxed my order to Todd Clarke and bits were here in 2 weeks ($US75 + postage = $A139) that was back Jan 2007.
Tonneau anchorage Contrary to what a lot of people think this can be welded in place without damaging the body paint work (as noted in instructions that came from CSR) it takes care, a good welder and preparation. Remove the seats, hood frame, carpets, tonneau rail use drop sheets to prevent weld splatter. The brackets may need a bit of squashing in a vice to fit between the gap in the rear bulkhead panel and the tonneau panel (one side did on my car). Pre-paint the brackets but leave ends unpainted position and weld. My good friend Barry Gannon welded mine for a bottle of red used a MIG welder. We used a damp cloths and a plastic milk container filled with water (and frozen) pressed against the paint work to keep it cool - it worked, no damage (see image attached).
Tunnel anchorage these can be either welded or bolted - I went for the bolted option. With seats, etc. and the carpeting removed from the transmission tunnel, locate the centre of the brackets and using a 1 hole saw (good quality and another $A50)) drill through the tunnel (CSR instructions give centre location). You also need to remove the driveshaft so you can get at fixing screws. (see image attached)
Frame anchorage the original dimension of this bracket was 29 1/2 30 !/2behind the front body brace mounting point I gave mine an extra 21/2 that way they clear the back of the seat (there are several references to this in the archives and it is a must if you want to avoid damaging) these are easy to weld in position then jus t cut the carpet to fit around bracket. (see image attached) If anyone is interested I have the CSR fitting instruction in pdf format and will email on request.

For the belts I decided to get them from Bob West MGA Specialists (UK) - I eventually ordered them in May (it took me awhile to fit the anchorages!) they eventually arrived this week (Oct) Bob did tell me they would take awhile but I didnt expect 5 months (we corresponded every month to check they were still coming). Quality is very good grey webbing, chrome period catch, etc. (see image attached). They were pretty expensive (135 pound plus 25 pound freight = $A380) (any MCC Victoria club members who see this, dont mention it when my wife is around or it will be another kitchen renovation or such). If I had my time over I most probably would have gone for a cheaper alternative Scarborough Faire advertises 3 point original style for under $US100). A few odd things with Bob West belts; the frame clip, tunnel clip and adjusting buckle are cadmium plated yet the tonneau clip is chrome. The hole in the tunnel clip is 5/8 dia. yet the fixing bolt in the CSR pack is 7/16 dia. The hole in the frame clip is also 5/8 dia yet the quick release pin in the CSR frame attachment is dia. (I have yet to take these anomalies up with Bob West but I dont think there is much I can do now anyway but it is worth that others are aware). Note my belts are different to those that Steve Giles posted his had the modern quick release clips where mine are supposed replicas of those shown on page SS.2 of the manual.

If anyone has more details on the original factory option seat belts I would be interested to hear from them.

Regards
Mike



Mike Ellsmore

Gents,
Here is the photo of the Bob West supplied belts (maybe it is solid gold under the chrome!)
Mike


Mike Ellsmore

Both Moss and Brown & Gammons sell the Securon retractable belts, and they install easily using the CSR mounting kit. Securon will not sell to the public, so don't bother trying.
Gary Lock

I am planning to fit inertia belts (Securon) very soon to my Jan '61 Aussi CKD roadster From what I have read, the weld position of the removable anchorage points is critical in order to avoid rubbing on the seat-back side yet still have a good lay for the lap. As you stated Mike, Securon are very difficult to talk to - all I managed was 2 curt email responses from them. I am planning on the top mount a little different than the Clarke CSR kit, which I have. I have made up a plate to MIG or TIG in the roof of the boot surround, positioned over the crossing of 2 reinforcing strips close to the top corners of the boot lid.The inertia reel will bolt to that and I have set up a dummy one with clamps which give belt exit through the slot at the top of the rear bulkhead at the required belt angle to the shoulder.
The stalks are simple to fit as you state. I did note that these Securon inertia mechanics are very sensitive to angle and lock up if the car is on a slight angle. This is the discussion I tried to have with Securon with respect to reducing this acute sensitivity, but to no avail. I'll post results and pix when finished. Incidentally I spent some months trying to persuade the NSW RTA to allow me to have a detachable belt anchorage point for the hood use and they finally relented if I used the exact same system that the MK11 did - hence Clark CSR kits, thank goodness.
Tony

Tony Clarke

Mike,
Is there a brand name on the chrome period style catch on the Bob West supplied belts?
Garry
Garry Kemm

Gary

Re Bob Wests static belts in my image (5th post in this thread). The fixing kits are in bags labelled Securon and the belt buckles are Bean's or Beam's (the N or M has what appears to be a curved i through it). Looks like a US company. Bob told me that he has a UK supplier for the period looking webbing.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Thanks Steve,
I thought the buckles looked familiar, Beams brand seat belts are available from J.C.Whitney in the US for $US39.99 a pair.
Go to www.jcwhitney.com and search for part number ZX176097A. There is a choice of colours, but don't know if the webbing is the same, the 3 anchoring brackets are different.
Looks as though Bob West modifies these belts with new brackets, although it should be possible to use as supplied by J.C.Whitney.

Garry
Garry Kemm

Photo of Beams seat belt buckle ends and webbing from J.C.Whitney


Garry Kemm

My belts were bought from JC Whitney too. I can't remember how long ago. I think sometime in the mid 1990's. They were Beams back then with a "Made in Korea" stamp. I found some used real MG belts at a swap met and stole the MG/Austin emblem from them and added them to my buckles using body molding tape. Almost look like real factory belts.

Chuck


C Schaefer

and the final product....


C Schaefer

Garry, do you have a picture of the attachment brackets on the seatbelts from J C Whitney?
Keith Morris

Keith,
The bracket on short buckle strap which attaches to prop. tunnel is the same as the one which attaches to the chassis side rail fitting. The hole in these brackets are 15/32inch dia and need to be enlarged slightly to allow the 1/2inch dia quick release pin as supplied by Todd Clarke to be used.
Garry


Garry Kemm

Thanks Garry, they look pretty good to me, much better than my current ones which have modern buckles with orange bits which look very out of place!
Keith Morris

Hi Garry,
Been reading this thread with interest. Just to recap the JC Whitney part number you quote is for the belts you have imaged? How long did you wait for delivery?
regards
Henry
H BUCKELDEE

Hi Garry,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I was in the NT for a few days. The buckles on my belts from Bob West do no have Beam or any other brand marked on them. When you open up the female - spring latch end, one has A0702 and the other has A0610 stamped on it - no other markings. On the male end of the buckle there is "Top 2" stamped on it - otherwise they look identical to your photo.
The fixing plates on the ends are different to your photos - the plate that goes under the tonneau has two holes (7/16" clearance) and is chromed - the other two (tunnel and door sides) are slightly different shape to those in your photo - 5/8 holes and cadmium plated. I am going to query this with Bob West and will let you know his reply.

By the way my earlier detaile post was meant to start "Seat belts - seeking originality is not cheap, easy or quick – read on!" I left out the "not"!

Regards
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Henry,
Yes, the quoted part number is for the belts as imaged. From memory they are a stock item and were received in 7 to 10 days.
Mike,
Your buckles and those of Steve Gyles are obviously from the same source as the J.C.Whitney belts. Bob West has used attachment brackets the same or very similar to what was original.
Regards,
Garry
Garry Kemm

Thanks Garry,
That means that the CSR attachment brackets are not a replica of the originals i.e. 7/16" fixing bolt on the tunnel mounting to fit a plate with a 5/8" hole - seems a bit loose to me!
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Hi guys

Does anyone know of a supplier for seatbelts with the correct 2 hole 'Y' bracket for the shoulder belt. I have a MkII Coupe which has the 2 studs protruding from the inner wheelarch.

I have been in touch with Bob West who used to do them but doesn't any more. Also Todd Clarke does not.

Anyone have any ideas ?, or any for sale!

Cheers

Ed Horne
ejf horne

Ed,
Bob West just made me a set with these plates - delivered in Sept. I did take a few months! It would not be hard to make these plates then you need someone to sew the belts on.
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I just saw an ad in Safety Fast for "Quickfit" safety belt service, on Lowther Road in Middlesex England. They seem to offer period correct lap belts and 3-point belts, also a refurbishing service. Have any of you guys in the UK done business with Quickfit?
Thanks, George.
G Goeppner

George

Not me, but thanks for the link. Occasionally takes someone from overseas to tell you what you have on your doorstep. Good searching!

Steve
Steve Gyles

Attached is pic of Quick Fit period style lap and diagonal belt. Basic cost £110 (English pounds)per pair plus tax. Possible to replace plastic fittings with chrome for extra cost. Webbing colour from large range.


H BUCKELDEE

Steve,
Including the quick release brackets and eye bolts/anchor plates, what was the price from Bob West. I think he would probably work out cheaper then Quick Fit by the time you add in chrome fittings.
H BUCKELDEE

Has anyone seen the Scarborough Faire 3 point belts? They are about the same price as the J C Whitney ones referred to in this thread (which are $39.99 each, not for a pair)and based on the drawing in the catalogue they look like the original ones except the shoulder mounting which has only one hole.
Keith Morris

HB

I paid £128 incl P&P for the belts from Bob.

Steve
Steve Gyles

This thread was discussed between 02/10/2007 and 23/10/2007

MG MGA index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG MGA BBS is active now.