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MG MGA - Servicing

My lockdown to do list must be getting shorter as I decided to service the MGA yesterday. A text book annual service is not something I normally do, as many of the checks and tinkering (eg fluid levels) I do throughout the year on a very regular basis anyway.
But I only just realised that in the 11 years I have had the car, I have never drained and changed the gearbox oil. I have only checked the level and topped it up, which I do with a small oil can with a long flexible hose spout. But the can only holds about 350 ml and would take probably best part of an hour of pressing the trigger just to feed in that 350ml.
So last night I set up a Heath Robinson affair with a funnel taped to my steering wheel attached to a long pipe feeding down into the gear box. But it is very fiddly getting the pipe through the hole in the tunnel and into the gearbox. X-ray vision is needed!
My plan is to pour in a little below the specified capacity, and then top it up with my can, as I imagine there will be some residual oil left over from before.
I am not sure of the exact capacity which is a bit annoying. My Worksop manual says 2.27 litres and the handbook shows 2.56 litres. I guess I will load in 2 litres and take it from there using the oil can. Is there a definitive figure?
I am curious how other owners have done it. I have a syphon gun from screwfix that cost about £10 which is similar to the gun on Barneys site and, probably would work well, if only I could find it!
Graham V

Graham
On the Castrol Australia site it says

Manual Transmission
Service Refill Capacity: 2.5 Litres
CASTROL MANUAL VMX 80W

It's a really good site and usually spot on-

https://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/
William Revit

Thanks

That’s interesting as I understood that the gearbox should be filled with engine oil but Castrol are recommending VMX80W
Graham V

Graham,
I bought this really inexpensive hand pump through Ebay and it works a treat, I have used it on a standard MGA box and also on the Ford T9 5-speed.

The 5-speed on my car has to be filled from underneath and the actual refilling process only takes a few minutes, certainly much quicker than the process of jacking up the car.

The pump primes in seconds and it moves a lot of oil very quickly too, also the pipe is so flexible that it will squeeze through the most awkward gaps, a great value gadget.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Long-Hand-Syphon-Suction-Pump-For-Oil-Petrol-Diesel-Fuel-Water-Liquid-Transfer/173912568245?hash=item287dff31b5:g:VosAAOSwPMlepK0i

Colyn
Colyn Firth

Residue left in the box (or engine) from a cold and unusually quick just removing the plugs can be a lot more than most owners expect.

Obviously the more old oil (and muck) left in means less fresh new oil going in and its effect slightly more diluted.

As for how much new oil and the residue of old oil it depends on how thorough you are with the change.

My routine is always to get the oil as warm as possible (well hot by going on a good run) and leave it to drain as long as possible, this gets as much muck and old oil as possible.

I also pour a little warmed fresh oil through the open box at the end of the drain to act as a final flush and allow that to fully drain. If you got the gearbox hot before draining as the old oil drains its cooling effect is obviously lost and the box keeps warm for quite a while.

On refill I always put in about two-thirds of dry fill quantity, to allow for old oil residue, and top up as required, you need to check g/box oil level after the oil has fully run on the gears and the best way to do that is after a run and the oil has settled.

Millers Oil site has straight 30 weight engine oil but I'm with Willy I'd go with a gear oil and in UK it'd be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80, this covers the 30 weight range but would also be better in the cold weather. Plus the oil will last longer in a more stable condition.

BL in the 70s put out a Technical Service Bulletin that gear oils could be used instead engine oil in the gearbox of all MGs (in the B Archives here a few times).

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/1887B42D4C6C34D580257E830031962A/$File/BPXE-9ZWH6W.pdf

Got to put the bunting up now.
Nigel Atkins

Castrol here can be a pain at times they change the names of their oils constantly--it takes some keeping up to at times
VMX 80W is a wide range 80 and is roughly the same as 75-80 and 10-30 engine oil
There's a write up here-

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/91D1857808F65BD680257C320015F06D/$File/MANUAL%20VMX80_467459_2013_10.pdf

That's why I rely on this site, if you click on the product description there's heaps of info
William Revit

Colyn , Nigel, William
Thanks for all the posts. I want to get the car up and running just in case, though I doubt it will be the case, Boris allows me to go for a spin after the weekend. So I will use my Heath Robinson funnels and pipes with engine oil, as I am not going to the shops at present. And eBay understandably generally has long delivery periods.
But it will give me time to read up about oil etc, and then at a later date I can change it over using Colyn’s pump suggestion if need be.

I was surprised about the oil recommendation so will definitely look into that. Do you think it might make the gear changes smoother? Changing the type of oil on my MGR certainly makes a difference.

Thanks
Graham V

Graham,
I was going to post didn't we cover this with the RV8. For making shifts easier it depends on the box and what's in the box now but if it's engine oil it'll be passed its best after 11 years probably.

Just doing a thorough oil change will help if only with seeing what comes out. I think with old, low mileage and use cars the need to have changes is more relevant.

Chris in the B-section(?) suggested a flushing agent that could be IIRC run in the box for a short while.

Now, what about the rear axle usually an easy job (but I thought that of the RV8 g/box and was wrong). I've seen where someone wrote they changed their axle oil every year and thought it helped keep the whine down. When I change the axle oil I think it is quieter for a while (but this might be placebo?) but the whine returns but is the whine quieter than before the original first change, I think it is but I might be fooling myself.

If you're not in the sheltered group you can use your A (or RV8) to drive to a countryside area to take your daily exercise as long as it's not something like an hour's drive to get there for 2 minutes walking. We've been out twice since I discovered this as we're within a few of miles of the fabulous Northamptonshire countryside and its excellent minor roads, going to footpaths very few are likely to be on in normal times so no worries at all about social distancing.
Nigel Atkins

Willy,
sorry, I meant to put before, the reason I put up the alternative Castrol is that I've not noticed the one you put up for sale here.

The UK Castrol site is also very good at giving access to product and material safety data sheets.

Castrol Classic Oils is actually MGOC / Promapac LLP licensed by Castrol. -
https://www.classicoils.co.uk/
Nigel Atkins

Graham,
again as an alternative, I bought one of the following and found it so good I bought another, one for oil other for coolant. I expected when I bought the first one that it'd only last a couple of uses but it's still working on the gearbox oil years later.

First one cost me £8 and second £4, both exactly the same, so shop around.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174159016418
Nigel Atkins

Well the jobs done. But what a pain it was. My initial set up of a long pipeline gaffa taped to a funnel that was attached to the steering wheel, worked well. I put in two litres that way very easily. But topping it up further with my oil can, a bit at a time, and checking with the dip stick each time, was a laborious task. It’s pretty hard to find the opening at the top of the gearbox through the aperture in the tunnel. You have to work blind, just by feel, as you can’t see a thing inside the tunnel. So doing that again and again and again, was not a great deal of fun.

But lesson learned. Next time around I will check the level before I drain it, and then carefully measure exactly how much oil has come out. I can then do the entire job with my pipe and funnel assembly.

Funnily enough I should have thought of that sooner. My daily driver has an electronic dipstick in the sump ( i.e. no traditional dipstick) and the electronic dipstick only gives a reading after about 20 minutes driving. So the “measure what comes out” trick is something I thought of some time ago to avoid overfilling due to residual oil remaining in the sump.


Graham V

Well done Graham.

I know your frustration, checking and topping up a Type 9 from inside the footwell of a midget - not enough, not enough, not enough, b*gger too much. The dipstick I use has to go horizontal bridging the gap between footwell sidewall and small very dark opening in gearbox, the dipstick is two pipe cleaner sticks joined and bent to reach, going box and check level below opening, contouring it to get it in and then the same for removal.

Even if you check and measure what's in and comes out you'll still need to top up a little.

Just to add to the joy, you will want to check the level after your first drive as you may need to top up, then unless it leaks a lot leave checking the level until next service. Some owners never check the oil level in the gearbox (or axle) and I bet many cars have oil that's decades old, possibly many decades.
Nigel Atkins

Graham
Electronic dipstick, wonderful idea, is it a Subaru, if it is you can put the oil gauge in the cluster into dipstick mode while filling up
Their gauge is a killer though,you top up top up still showing low add another 200ml and it's overfull then you have to turn around and drain a bit to stop the light looking at you
The diesels are worse still, you have to get them absolutely spot on then reset the oil level in the electronics with the diagnostic gear so it can tell you if it changes level and if you don't it growls at you

willy
William Revit

Willy

It’s a diesel Volvo C70. The indicator on the instrument panel won’t tell you a thing until you have done 20 minutes driving, which is daft.
I am guessing that the Volvo dealers have a diagnostic tool that gives the precise reading as it is filled up, and if I am right, it’s an attempt to stop unauthorised dealers servicing it.
Or am I being cynical?
Graham V

Ah yes the Volvo, there would be a secret volvo method I guess as you say
The diesel Subaru has what could only be described as an interesting feature where the ecu, for some random reason that Subaru hasn't mastered yet, will overinject at or before startup and raw fuel bypasses the rings into the engine oil
Instead of getting to the bottom of why this happens, they came up with this brilliant idea of getting the oil level spot on at service time and then oil level has to be set into the ecu so that it can warn you if the oil gets overfull (diluted with diesel fuel) If this happens it has to have the oil changed
There's been a few driven with the overfull warning light on but they don't get far before the bearings melt out on them, they don't like running on diesel at all-------
willy
William Revit

Slightly on topic - my first car was a Rover 14, 1938. The petrol gauge served double duty, if you pressed a button it would read sump level.
Art Pearse

nice , and 1938
William Revit

Also Willie, it had centralized chassis point lubrication using vacuum and oil reservoir, and it had a dashboard freewheel knob (big one) that could allow you to coast downhill on idle and change gear without the clutch.
Oh, and inboard jacking points through floorboard trapdoors.
Art Pearse

Art, I had to look the Rover up to see what it looked like, I think it might be my MGY's daddy

lol
willy

Good looking car that Rover
William Revit

This thread was discussed between 08/05/2020 and 11/05/2020

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