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MG MGA - The Best MG
Proposition - the MGA is the finest MG extant. Earlier cars are spindly cars unusable in today's traffic with any regularity. Later cars are cookie cutter (relatively) cars with uninspired styling compared to the MGA. There are always exceptions - much of the prewar stuff can turn my crank, and I like the odd MGC, but generally speaking, the MGA has a combination of excellent handling and looks that is unbeatable. Sure, it can use a bit more power, but what better use for an MGB engine....a lot easier to give an MGA more power than it is to make an MGB more attractive. Psst - don't bring this thread to the attention of the MGB owners - they can get a bit huffy about such things! |
Bill Spohn |
Don't forget the Twin Cam. The ultimate way to make a MGA go faster. (sorry Dominic and all those with supercharged MGA's and also those using MGB engines). Mick |
Mick Anderson |
A warmed over 1622 engine and SC will eat a standard TC for breakfast... (mine does anyway). Way more power than a standard B engine too. But I agree a TC would be nice |
dominic clancy |
The TC engine certainly makes the under-bonnet look as good as the rest of the car! |
Derek Nicholson |
Well I didn't mention Twincams specifically, but now that you did, yes, I do think it is the best (and possibly the most misunderstood) motor ever used in an MG. The prewar SOHC engines would possibly rival it, but nothing else I can think of. Here is my favorite MGA engine sitting on the garage floor. http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/i/non-rhodo/mgatc.jpg |
Bill Spohn |
I agree. A chrome bumper BGT comes pretty close though (and much more practical), and there are a couple of really beautiful prewar MGs, like the PA/PB Airline Coupe and the SA Magnette. But as you say, the prewar cars aren't all that driveable. |
Mark Lambert |
The MGA is a beautiful car but the original MGB is beautiful as well. The B is an obvious carryon to the A, as much a part of the 1960s as the A was to the 1950s. I'd have a hard time saying which was "best". I love my A, but I do with it had the legroom of the B. The big prewar saloons (SA and VA) were gorgeous too, but (I assume) not as fun to drive. |
David Breneman |
Can't really agree with David there - even as an exBGT owner. I remember when the A was discontinued and the B was introduced in '62 - a sixth form schoolboy at the time, I thought - what have they done replacing the MGA with that!(with apologies to all my friends who own one and especially to Rob Collier who reads this section regularly and probably won't speak to me again when he reads this!). The A is undoubtedly a beautiful shape ( which is why I bought mine), but I also love the shape of the TF as well and it is just as driveable - or so my friends, Tom and Cyril at West Lancs MG, who have one tell me - cheers Cam |
Cam Cunningham |
I agree that the MGA, particularly the coupe is one of the most gorgeous cars on the planet - right up there with the SWV-series prewar saloons and the Z-series postwar saloons, but... I believe it is at the end of the video "Inside the Octagon" where there is a panel discussion involving John Thornley, Jean Kimber Cook, Sterling Moss, and one other high profile MG personage who's name I cannot recall. The final question for this panel: what is your favorite MG of all time? Jean Kimber Cook first answered "Whatever MG I happen to be driving", but her more serious answer was the unanimous choice of the entire panel: the MGB/GT. A B/GT, particularly in a dark color is such an ingeneous study in automotove design. While its roots are a bit haphazzard, it is a unique exercise in combining razor edge with gentle curves. It shouldn't work, but it does. It's also unique among Abingdon MGs in it's ultimate usefulness in modern traffic conditions. I know I'm going to P/O a lot of folks (After all, I haven't forgotten that this is the MGA thread!), but the B/GT continues (IMHO) to be one of the most useful fun little cars ever devised. I can't imagine an MG collection without one. This is coming from a low-budget MG collector who had to give up his MGA (project car) to allow one venture, in this lifetime, into the T-series cars - a '53 TD. I'm already looking for my next MGA - a mineral blue coupe, if you please. This is also a guy who is an active NAMGAR supporter, partly because of NAMGR's support for the Magnette. Alright guys, have me for dinner! I'm yours... Allen |
Allen Bachelder |
The MGA is one of the prettiest cars of its day. It is also perhaps the best combination of vintage feel and modern performance of any M.G. However it is far from practical with its tiny boot, and also a bit underpowered in stock form (especially 1500 models). Is it the "best" M.G. ever made? That depends on your definition of "best". Was it the most successful racer? No. The biggest seller? No. The most practical? No. The most historically important? No. So what is better about this car than any other M.G. ever made? Well, the only thing I can think of is my original statement that it has the best combination of vintage feel and modern performance if you are to own only one classic M.G. My definition of "best" would be a car which did what it was designed to do better than any other, and did it with the things that made M.G. great right from the start... reliability, safety and affordable performance. My pick for the best M.G. ever? Tough call. I don't think there is such a thing. In the running for me would be K3 and TC. Ignoring that traditional M.G.s are sports cars, I might add the early MGB GT for its high level of practicality and good performance for the price. That is, after all, what it was designed to offer! |
Steve Simmons |
Whilst I am an MGA addict, it was not the style that first attracted me to the marque. I guess it was my passion for military flying that attracted me to the fighter pilot 'square riggers' of the war years - the P-type and early T-type cars. During my 5 years of MGTC (not the Twin Cam!) ownership, most of the others owners shouted down the MGA, claiming it was not a 'proper' MGA as it did not have the 'square' front end. There were also ongoing discussions as to whether MGAs could be admitted to the MG Octagon Club. Even though it was acknowledged that the type had a separate chassis, it was never allowed in. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
Interesting comments about the B-GT. When I said the B was a beautiful car, I had the roadster in mind. I never really considered the GT to be a particularly elegant design, just a competent job of putting a hard top on a car designed as a roadster. The B does look best in dark colors, especially BRG. |
David Breneman |
I'm really tickled to see what a civil bunch we are. What is common to all our preferences is that wonderful octagon enclosing those magic letters "MG". I love them all - even my '63 Farina Mk IV Magnette. And I know, that's really a stretch! I can't defend this car, I got it for nothing, and admittedly paid too much, but I'm just a sucker for any car that has an octagon on it. Back when I was 19 years old, I got a brand new Morris Minor. One day when I took it in for routine service, I found myself sharing the showroom with a mineral blue MGA coupe and what I remember as a BRG ZB Magnette. They never made Z Magnettes in BRG - it must have been another dark green color. But I was sitting between two of the most beautiful cars I had ever seen. Forty eight years later, I feel the same way. To this day, I love the MGA coupe for its door handles alone! But the car I just took to town to pick up a Sunday paper was my teal blue B/GT. I don't like to see it pick up scratches and chips, but I don't worry about it. And I get to drive the car everywhere, everyday. Cheers, Allen |
Allen Bachelder |
When it all comes down to it - beauty is in the eye of the beholder - and I think that is what the original proposition was - not how practical . Even the beautiful TF - let alone the fantastic MGA - was sneered at by square rigger afficionados as being just a TD with its face pushed in - and I quite like the Farina Magnette, Alan, even though it isn't a "proper" MG just a warmed over Morris - but then so were the first MGs weren't they! cheers Cam |
Cam Cunningham |
I have an A roadster and an A coupe and I must admit that they are both beautiful cars and most of all fun to drive. I also have a TF which "some" have called the most beautiful MG ever made. The A's are more sporty to drive and do attract attention but I can barely drive a block in the TF without someone stopping me and asking about the car, older people, middle aged people and young poeple are attracted to the TF. Can't imagine being without any of them! John |
John Progess |
The MGA is one of those cars that looks as if its going very fast even when it is standing still - a quality it shares only with a very select few. for example the Jaguar XK120 and perhaps some Alfas. It also feels as if its its going fast even when its going quite slowly and it brings a broad grin to my face at any speed. I fell in love with MGAs when they came out in 1955 (aged 10)and fulfilled my dream 20 years ago. They are the best! However if you want to risk your neck at any speed in an MGA try this one! http://www.jcna.com/gallery/main.php?Vref=JCNA&Vfnum=150&Vthread=498David |
David Marklew |
MGA is the one of the nicest body style car ever made. Pure classic sport car. http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1587je3.jpg http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1603lahjaas8.jpg |
MGartin |
What a great thread. I have always loved the J2 and even the little M type (once you drive an M type, you will know what a joy that little car can be - and why it was the car that put MG on the road to the quantity sports car production) The TC is my favorite, to me it represents the maturity of all the elements found in the swept wing J2/PA/PB models - TA and TB are a bit hard to find - so I'd love a TC. That said, my first MG was an MGA (I have owned it since I was 16 - 45 now). I have driven more miles in my MGBs (I once thought they were too common looking - but I admire the lines now - hard to believe the car is 45 years old in design). I agree with the comments on the MGB GT. When driving our GTs I always had more people comment on the car - it is that rakish tailgate that adds a sporting design element to the car - I just love them too. But - If I could only have one MG - it would be a TC. Maybe we should change the question to "What is your favorite MG" rather than what is the best MG. Jeff |
J Delk |
MGA for sure. This weekend I moved my MGA across the bay via 64 in Virginia Beach to our new home. Traffic was heavy and while the speed limit is posted 55 mph, one would be an idiot to drive 55. I ran the car 70 to 80 mph from Norfolk thru Hampton. Wasn't pleasant but the MGA can run with todays traffic if need be. Unfortunately, everyone is bigger. The car now has endless rural to roads to cruse and no more 64. |
Bill Haglan |
MGartin. those are some great pictures! I assume you took them. What's the building? |
David Breneman |
I agree - "your favourite MG" rather than "the best". But even then it is difficult. My personal preferences: Best looking: MGA, though an early MGB GT gets very close. Most useful everyday classic: mgb roadster, of course. Most exciting: Possibly the pre-war K3. Most fun to drive: No doubt the early variations of the modern midget. Have you ever tried one? No T-types for me, thanks. I had a TA many years ago, and I really donīt miss it. Gorgeous looks - but that is all. Tore |
Tore |
The new steering kits for the TC really transfrom the driving experience of the car. It is a bolt on datsun truck steering box - there are also other kits out there I think. For me, that cured the TC's worst trait. Now I just need to find one I can afford to call my own. Jeff |
J Delk |
I can't believe that nobody has mentioned the Airline Coupes. These are knock-out drop-dead georgeous! I don't know how they drive but for looks..... 2nd in my book are the YB's. Very classy. 3rd is the MGA coupe for looks and practicality (roll-up windows etc) and the roadster for that open feeling. I have owned an MGA coupe and presently own an MGA roadster. I will never have the $$ for the Airline coupe and don't have the room for another MG so will probably never own the YB. Chuck |
Chuck Schaefer |
It's so difficult to select the 'best looking' MG, but the MGA does rate highly in my opinion. I've always loved the front end of the TF, but it needed a little more updating in the rear to really carry it off. The MGA's weak point if any is the front end and the weird line of the fender welts around the nose. Of all the photos I've seen the best in my opinion is Malcolm Robertson's SA coupe from Australia. A simply stunning car as far as body design goes. Well enough day dreaming, back to reality and my budget, I'll stick with my MGA roadster and have no complaints. |
Bill Young |
I've had 6 MGA roadsters, 3 were parts cars. An early '74 MGB and a '52 TD. I'll have to say my favourite MG is the 1957 215-V8 powered MGA roadster I have now,FUN,FUN,FUN. Sorry about that purist. See you at the NAMGAR GT-32 at Whistler, B.C. Lyle |
Lyle Jacobson |
J Delk says: "The new steering kits for the TC really transfrom the driving experience of the car. It is a bolt on datsun truck steering box" The new moustache kit really transforms the Mona Lisa for me as well. I mean, the TC is a classic. If you want a newer car, why not get one, or maybe a kit-car TC reproduction? |
David Breneman |
David - thats a bit harsh don't you think? If a worn steering box (a problem even when the cars were fairly new) is something you enjoy, more power to you. |
J Delk |
Classic or not - the TA and the TC steering is identical, and it definitely was the worst feature of my TA. It was very heavy, lacked precision and feel, and as someone has said: "No TC ever went down a straight road in a straight line". Of course the TD and TF is much better, but they donīt have the looks. No, not the TF either. And yes, Chuck - I feel a little ashamed about forgetting the Airline Coupes. A PB Airline Coupe would possibly be The Ultimate MG for me. But only if I could keep both the MGB and the Midget :-) Tore |
Tore |
I am going to be a bit controversial here. As I said earlier, I am an MGA addict. However, whilst it has classic body lines, I do feel that from certain angles the large slab windscreen seems out of proportion and detracts from the looks. With the cut down racing screen the car is transformed and it looks absolutely the part. Steve |
Steve Gyles |
Steve - I agree that theroadster looks better with cut down windscreen. http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/i/non-rhodo/portland.jpg But I have a real soft spot for the coupe as well. It is an under-appreciated superior touring car, much nicer for long cross country trips! http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/i/non-rhodo/leftside.jpg http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/i/non-rhodo/coupemg1.jpg |
Bill Spohn |
Hi, J - Harsh? No. It's one thing to Miata-ize an MGB as there are tens of thousands of them on the road. I'll even grant that people who want to "improve" an MGA, or any car, have a *right* to do it, as its their private property. But there comes a point when a car is significant, old and rare enough that one man's "re-engineering" can be seen as another man's "bastardization" and as a preservationist at heart I find such projects historically concerning. Nothing personal. It is your car. But it is also a classic, a car I aspire to own - and after decades of searching and saving for the opportunity to own a landmark historic car like the TC, if I found that I was having someone else's "improvements" foisted on me, I'd consider myself cheated. The TC is a pre-WWII design whose introduction was delayed by the onset of war. It's a historic vehicle. It's the car that introduced America to the sports car. It would be nice if future drivers could experience what that car was like, warts and all; and because of the warts to marvel at what a revelation it was in comparison with the vehicles then available in America. It is what it is. It's of a unit. It's organic in its makeup and the experience of driving it. If you find its performance typical of its genre, and find that performance lacking, why not buy another car? Are the looks all that matter? A simulation of a historic vehicle at the sacrifice of it's historic nature? To illustrate by absurdity: Don't stick a Chevy V-8 and Hydromatic transmission in a Bugatti Royale and tout it as a enhancement. 'Nuff said. Again, no hard feelings personally. No offense meant. Hopefully my feelings aren't offensive to you, as yours aren't offensive to me; I just choose to vigorously disagree. I suppose I'm a historian at heart. Partof owning a classic car, to me, is experiencing driving as it was in the past. As someone who works with high technology all day, sometimes all week, I relish old technology for its own sake, and strive to preserve it. The next beer is on me, OK? |
David Breneman |
David, I too read your first post as "oh man, there's one of those d*mn stuffy purists, but your argument is compelling and your manner of presenting it is most kind and respectful. I've learned something from your post. ' Hope I can be around to see you and J. sit down for a beer - and I'll buy a round for the three of us. I suppose an an approach that would appease all of us is a bolt-on conversion that is fully and completely reversible with no telltale extra holes drilled or whatever. That way, if J Delk, and a good many others, derive a lot genuine pleasure from driving TCs with Datsun steering, at least they can either convert them back or provide the original parts so the next owners can do so. Of course, even now as well as 50 years from now, somebody is going to want to experience the TC exactly as it came out of the box - and marvel that, casting aside their Fords and their Chevys, a lot of American servicemen preferred, bought and loved this car. And like now, 50 years from now, somebody is going to say "Hey, I could really drive and enjoy this car if I could just steer the darn thing". These folks will make these concessions to modern driving realities and they will thoroughly enjoy the cars in a manner with which it is hard to find fault. But ownership of these cars is stewardship, and I would hope that irreversible modifications will be avoided. Recently I sold a very rare YT-EXU. I know of another one,with which the owner plans on building a street rod. He is an MG enthusiast, and I have passionately argued against his plan. But he points out to me that it IS his car. The only salvation I see from this is that I don't think he'll ever get around to it. Otherwise: those of us who post on this thread would do well to read Bill Spohn's initial proposition: that the MGA "is the finest MG extant". He did not specify the most beautiful, the most utilitarian, the best handling, he said only the "FINEST". We are left to take all considerations in mind when determining this. I still like my B/GT. Do I crave a TC? Yes. Do I crave another MGA? Yes. Would either of these cars replace my B/GT? No way! FWIW, Allen |
Allen Bachelder |
Allen - Thank you for receiving my comments in the spirit in which they were intended. I tend to get passionate about some things, like MGs, and fly off the handle with my enthusiasm, but we're all friends here and this is a friendly conversation, not a fight. BTW, that's a beautiful car. I know I've pestered people on this list with pictures of mine like an annoyingly proud father, but like I said, I get passionate. Here's my MGA: http://tildebang.com/mg/images/carney-lake-sm.jpg |
David Breneman |
I just wanted to address David's "passionate" concerns about "bastardization" of the TC. The text below is from a TC owner talking about the kit - which can be installed and removed without so much as drilling a single hole. Douglas McWilliam, New South Wales, Australia Being a bit of an authenticate,it was with some trepidation that I installed a "Ray Skewes" version of a Datsun 1200 steering box and column into my car. WOW! The steering is much lighter and the car more stable direction wise. The unit is complete and bolts onto the original mounting holes with no modifications needed. The old box and column is now stored away for posterity. I wonder how others have found and experienced such mods.It certianly enthuses me to get out and drive it more. Ray is based in Melbourne (Aust.) and specialises in MG T series engineering. A simple search of the TA TB TC archive will show that many, many owners are addressing steering issues - and with sound reasons. I dont think anyone would be offended by comments if they were made in a tone that was a little less dogmatic or exaggerated. As to history of the TC, the TC was not "a pre-WWII design whose introduction was delayed by the onset of war." The TB was introduced in 1939 and production stopped due to the war. The TC was created as the next model and was considered a "lash up" by some of those at Abingdon who built it. It was considered to be the best car that was possible at that time in 1945. It was not designed before the war and delayed in its introduction. We all love MGs and it seems we both admire the TC. Let's leave it at that. |
J Delk |
I really do have to agree with Jean Kimber Cook. If I had to choose one model I don't think I could. I have owned an A, a Twin-Cam, ZA, ZB, MGB and BGT. Of those, my favorites would be the ZA then the GT with the Twin-cam in third. In order; Practical for a family and stylish, practical for a couple, damn sexy. I have always wanted a BGT-V8, but would give my eye-teeth for an MGC-GTS. One of the Chatham cars would do thank-you. Sheer visual brute strength and purposeful elegance. Cheers, Rich |
Rich McKIe |
The Best MG? Well, thats real easy to answer. The one sitting in MY garage of course.................... |
Mitch Smith |
Haha you are not going to get any arguments suggesting the MGA is best MG if you ask it on the MGA site! I love my MGC |
James Finlayson |
On the contrary. There has been a lot of opinions that the MGA is not the "best" MG. I also love my MGC, but it is not the best overall car M.G. ever made. Neither is the MGA, in my opinion. But it's VERY good. |
Steve Simmons |
The MGA is the only MG that draws any interest from me. It is the most beautifull shape ever from MG. The older cars look older by generations. They have an antique charm but not what I would call a beautifull shape. The Bs and Cs are somewhat bland in appearance. I know it is purely a personal and subjective opinion but for me it is the MGA and the MGA only. (current MGs: red 58 rdstr, mineral blue 58 coupe, iris blue 60 rdstr and a black 62 MK11 rdster, prior owned MGs OEWhite 57 rdstr OEWhite 58 coupe Iris blue 60 rdster) |
R J Brown |
I'd agree with that. Early MGs - antique charm seems to cover it. MGA - very fluid shape that doesn't seem very dated. MGB/C - I guess bland is fair. I like their shape more than I do the Japanese Datsun 1600/2000, less than some of the period Alfas. It is a clean and functional design, but it doesn't have much pizazz. Look at a Datsun 240Z, or an MGA and it usually evokes a response - normally "Wow, what a nice looking car". Look at a TR-4 or MGB and it seems a bit ho-hum. Of course there are people that really LIKE the MGB shape, to the exclusion of these other cars we are talking about, but I think that there aren't many who react to the MGB as they would to a Cobra (or name the car of your choice with snazzy lines). To each his own (I also own an MGC) |
Bill Spohn |
I know you fellow MGA owners will throw stones at me for saying this...but I have always felt the AH 100 was a sportier car than the MGA. I love my MGA, but when sitting next to a AH100 or 100-4 as some call it, I have to say the AH really makes my heart race - especially when the AH windshield is lowered. They are both beautiful designs. I'd like one of each! Jeff |
J Delk |
Well, here I go again. For many years, MGBs were the only MGs I could afford. I was just d*mn happy to be part of the tradition. But driving around with other club cars, I'd get a bit frustrated when people would oggle all over the place over A/Hs, Triumphs (even TR6s), MG T series and MGAs while not noticing my MGB. To address this concern, I have done two things: 1. Gradually, I'm acquiring older, more rare, and more colorful MGSs! 2. I'm appreciating that my B/GT is far more distinctive than my B tourer. But then, is the tourer "bland" - or is it such a universal statement of what a car should be that, in the eyes of most casual observers, it speaks for contemporary cars as well as those built 50 years ago. Could it be that it does not turn heads because it still looks "just right". It doesn't remind folks of a time gone by because it's still somewhat current. Not too long ago, my '73 tourer (now sold) ended up in a restaurant parking lot with a bunch of Mercedes, Lexi, BMWs and the like. But all the attention was turning toward my MGB. After a few questions about "where can I buy one", I started to realize these high-end car guys were presuming my car was new and still available. I don't know what the answer is, nor do I even know what I want it to be. The nice thing about these MGBs is that they can still be used. The MGA is, admittedly, a more beautiful car. But how long does it take for side-curtains to get old? The MGA coupe - with good insulation and A/C might be the ultimate answer: an incredibly beautiful car that is also useful and comfortable. Regarding MGCs, I have a C/GT and I'm taking the liberty of lumping them together with the Bs - at least aesthetically. This might not be fair - with their 15" wheels and bonnet bulges, they do have a different character, but I contend that 90% of the character difference is heard more than seen! It's remarkable that the TA-TCs are so totally different from the TDs, and the TFs are in another category altogether. You simply cannot lump them together. The TA-B-C is the car we can picture in a romantic WW II British movie, even though the TC is postwar. The TD has all the analogous parts, but the result is totally different. Each one beautiful, in its own way. Others are more fond of the TF than I. Very striking car - viewed now. Although the press wasn't so fond of it back in '54! Geeze, I haven't even touched on the prewar MGs. I know that after the SA won best of show at MG2001 (even before) I kept exclaiming to anybody who would listen that cars simply don't come any more beautiful than that. Then there are the Tickfords and the Airline Coupes. Where does it all stop. Each and every one of these models was a premier statement of what it intended to be. To compare an SA with an MGA coupe is really a silly exercise. And where do the beautiful Arnolt TDs fit in this picture? The bottom line is that MGs are beautiful. As to usefulness, it's a little hard to compare 50-70 year-old models with 30-40 year-old models, but isn't it remarkable that some of the 30-50 year-old models are still useful cars? So, if you own an MG, you win! Congratulations, Allen |
Allen Bachelder |
I once found a 1931 L or N Magna 4 place tourer in a barn - those of you who never saw such have a shock coming on the beauty side! It's about 4 inches higher than the 19" wheels with skirted cycle fenders. Couldn't get the guy to part with it, but my alert saved it from vandals. Steering? I had an AC Ace Bristol, with the identical steering box as the TC - by far the worst feature of the otherwise superb car. I still have the sister Aceca, and if I ever get it going again, the steering box is bye-bye. I'd much rather see any of these going down the road than stuffed into a tree; let me say that I drive them hard, no pussyfooting - I reckon Nuvolari would have changed the box in the K3 too. Updates? How about a Magnette with the twincam? And why not the Dunlop KO wheels and 4 wheel discs? If that's bastardization, bring it on! And given that we now have a need for it, with long clear roads, if I could ever build one like that, it'd certainly have a 5 speed or OD as well. Twincam bits being few and far and buxsy, I'll just do one or more of several increasingly radical conversions I've got in mind. My sister has the family Morgan 4-4 series one, a 60 mph car on a very good day with a tail wind. I'm supposed to restore it; I've more or less refused to do it stock, as it is dangerous, won't go OR stop. Keep in mind that before the MGA, they were all designed for narrow twisty roads with 50mph a big deal. The A went up a notch, but it was certainly not a comfortable long distance Gran Turismo - which after all is what the MGBGT means and is. I have always said that the BGT is the best all around car ever built, not that it can't stand "personalization". Personalization is what high end cars were all about, and I don't care for reverse snobbery of saying that while Bugatti or Duesenberg or Aston owners can have the cars built to taste, the rest of us can't - even after the fact. There were a lot of custom Austin 7s and the like built, and MG itself is a special from the start. For me, it comes down to it being a whole lot better having them on the road in any form than sitting in barns or as trailer queens, or being run over by SUVs because they can't move out of the way, or running into ABS cars because the brakes suck. And I still appreciate an original, like David B's gorgeous example. FRM |
FR Millmore |
This thread was discussed between 19/05/2007 and 30/05/2007
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