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MG MGA - Vehicle registration

Help please - this could well be one for our north American colleagues. I am trying to register in the UK my MGA roadster. I purchased it 3rd hand in the UK, the rolling shell and chassis having evidently been purchased from a scrap yard in Virginia. The vehicle did not come with any documentation as it was scrap but did still retain its chassis number. The UK DVLA are now asking me, and I copy here from their correspondence, "to contact the registration authority in the USA who recorded the scrapping of the vehicle to confirm that it would have been able to be repaired and returned to the road in that country under it's original vehicle VIN."
Dont quite understand that as if scrapped surely its scrap.
I would like to register it here in UK as a historic vehicle and not as a kit car as the DVLA have advised.
Can anyone help me please?
Kind Regards Mark
M Dollimore

If there is any record of it, which there may not be, it would be the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles:

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/#/

Depending on when and how it was scrapped, there may be no records. Old records are often deleted, and it's entirely possible that it was never reported as scrapped. I don't know the laws specific to Virginia, but I've never heard of any records showing that the vehicle could have been restored. The DMV where I live wouldn't care. As for the VIN, if the car were returned to the road then I believe it would retain its original VIN by default, unless there was a reason to assign a new one. But in most states it would carry a "salvage title" meaning it was totaled at one time before being rebuilt and returned to the road.
Steve Simmons

Mark. Here in the US, a vehicle may be "scrapped" if, in an accident, the cost of the repairs are viewed as higher than the value of the automobile. If the vehicle is subsequently returned to driving condition, it does so on a "Salvage/Restoration" title. Cars with such titles have a significantly lower value than cars having an original title.

There are several ways of approaching your problem. The first is to contact the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles (or whatever specific name they use for the bureau that issues vehicle titles) and see if the vehicle was ever titled and/or registered in that state. Just because a vehicle was sold off to a scrap or salvage yard in Virginia does not indicate, per se, that it was ever titled or registered there. If it was registered in another state, was involved in an accident while in Virginia, and towed to a towing company's storage yard, it may have been sold as scrap in Virginia while being titled/registered in another state. I would note that Virginia has several military bases located within the state and under US law, soldiers and sailors do not have to register or title their vehicles in Virginia while serving there on active duty. So, knowing the area where the wrecking yard that supplied the vehicle is can be useful.

Second method would be to contact the wrecking yard to see if there is any record of where the vehicle came from. Rather a long shot.

Third method is to post the car number on various forums in hopes that someone may have some information about the chassis.

In the final analysis, there is no US agency that decides whether a vehicle is capable of remaining on the road except the insurance company of the party at fault. If they "total" a vehicle it is presumed to be unsafe to operate until repaired. Only at that point would a state agency become involved to make a determination of road worthy condition. And, yes, I have seen good, drivable card declared "totaled" and junked out due to the value of the vehicle versus the cost of repairs.

Hope you can find what you need. Les
Les Bengtson

Mark

As you have the chassis number you can get a Heritage certificate. Armed with that and the import documentation from the port of entry you should be able to register it. My car was a 22 year old barn find wreck from San Diego. That was all I needed.

Steve
Steve Gyles

"Dont quite understand that as if scrapped surely its scrap. "--sort of speaks for itself
You wouldn't be able to register that here ,scrap is scrap....
Save yourself all the drama and register it as a kit car, then once it's registered ,with the chassis number nicely titled to you, next year go in and change it to historic
willy
William Revit

Mark

Do the remnants that you have look like they have been in a big enough smash to warrant scrapping? If it’s a question of the engine and running gear, there should be no impact there on eventual safety in operation and what you have are the remains of a parts car.

Could some pictures of the body and chassis and some special pleading to the DVLA get them to change their mind?
Bolney Coupe

Thank you all for your prompt responses. I have been dealing with our DVLA for a long time now. They have all the certificates import docs (it was not imported as a complete car and as such didn't warrant the normal NOVA documents) therein I believe lies the problem.
Perhaps I've been too honest, the car didn't appear to be accident damaged enough to scrap but had just rusted away.
It's all back to looking something like I want.
Keep comments coming.
Best wishes
Mark


M Dollimore

Mark,

I don't know how you started the registration process but you seem to be firmly headed up the wrong track.

Try to avoid the Kit Car route at all costs. If you have to regiter it as one you will have to meet the IVA (individual vehicle approval) regulations and I suspect that an awful lot of an MGA does not meet modern requirements.

I don't think that Willy's idea of changing to Historic after a year will work as the DVLA will have registered the vehicle with a Q reg and getting out of that is virtually impossible without waiting 40 years.

I think you will need to get the car treated as a "Reconstructed Classic". It should not then matter that it has been "scrapped" as you are essentially building a car from restored parts. The trouble is when dealing with the DVLA, as I understand it, all vehicle registration cases are dealt with the same way so your case will appear on someone's desk amongst a load of new cars and they probably will only ever see one such case in their working life and don't really know how to deal with it.


There are out there people who will for a fee look after the process for you. I have never used any but it could be worth considering.

Malcolm
Malcolm Asquith

Mark

If you don't have the heritage certificate get it here: https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archive/heritage-certificates

Recognised by DVLA.

I recall I turned up at the DVLA vehicle Registration Dept in Preston with their First Registration form; Heritage certificate; Bill of Sale; import invoice (import duty paid) from Hull docks; an MoT certificate; and insurance cover note. I walked away with a V5; age related number plate; and a tax disc. I had not had a conversation with them, written nor oral, prior to that morning. They asked for no history about the state of the vehicle in the overseas location. I was in the department for about 15 mins. It was all so simple and painless.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Sounds like a bit different system to here so I should butt out-----------

Maybe a wise move would be to stay away from using the words wreck and scrap and just say the car was incomplete--as you say maybe over honest on your part
Down here we have two types of damaged writeoffs
#1 Statuary writeoff (scrapper)--can't be repaired or reregistered -ever , under any circumstances
#2 Repairable writeoff--can be repaired but has to go through a thorough inspection process after being repaired

Steve's idea of turning up with all your paperwork in order sounds like the go, If you've got your bit done they'll probably feel they have to do their bit
Do you need to tell them it was an import, maybe just a receipt from whoever you bought it off and plead ignorant as to where it came from
I think trying to get it done before the car is ready to go is a mistake

I really like the look of your car--top job

willy
William Revit

Mark,

I don't know how you started the registration process but you seem to be firmly headed up the wrong track.

Try to avoid the Kit Car route at all costs. If you have to regiter it as one you will have to meet the IVA (individual vehicle approval) regulations and I suspect that an awful lot of an MGA does not meet modern requirements.

I don't think that Willy's idea of changing to Historic after a year will work as the DVLA will have registered the vehicle with a Q reg and getting out of that is virtually impossible without waiting 40 years.

I think you will need to get the car treated as a "Reconstructed Classic". It should not then matter that it has been "scrapped" as you are essentially building a car from restored parts. The trouble is when dealing with the DVLA, as I understand it, all vehicle registration cases are dealt with the same way so your case will appear on someone's desk amongst a load of new cars and they probably will only ever see one such case in their working life and don't really know how to deal with it.

To add further complications as you do not have the import docs and tax/duty paid information you might also get involved with the Customs and Excise people under the NOVA (Notification of Vehicle Arrivals) scheme.

There are out there people who will for a fee look after the process for you. I have never used any but it could be worth considering.

Malcolm
Malcolm Asquith

Steve,
a lot has changed since then. A few years ago I had to be reminded the local offices shut down years before that.

I'm with you on a Heritage Certificate and would pay extra for the full one as more comprehensive for DVLA, but then you'd need to tread carefully with different/new body to chassis perhaps, but I don't know.
Nigel Atkins

Willy,
sorry but again I'm going to put that things are different here to where you are and how you might imagine them to be or should be.

Malcolm has put it all, people here usually do their very best to avoid kitcar and Q plates for the reasons Malcolm has put plus snobbery and values/prices.

A few year back I suggest to a new midget owner that they fill in DVLA form V888 (one of the only form numbers I know and remember off the top of my head) to get all the registration info about the car going back to when it was new and details of all 'registered keepers', changes of registration 'plate' and if recorded changes in colour, engine size and numbers but that stopped with Data Protection and the information given is very limited so you can't contact previous owners for more information and history.

The DVLA is in Wales, another country even, and I'm not sure they'd allow visitors to the site(s) even before Covid because of security (which is laughable as breaches, as with many large concerns, are probably caused by the outside services they contract to, anyone want a printed V5).

Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 12/07/2021 and 13/07/2021

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